Is this the nutrition you've been training with leading up to the race that is now less than a week away? The calories for the bike seem pretty appropriate. Getting those run calories down in the heat may be more problematic. I'm really impressed to see that you're planning a 3 hourish marathon for your first IM in a place that is likely to extremely hot. Please do come back with a detailed race report.

Have a great race but remember to enjoy the day.

edit add- John, a quick Athlinks review shows you are certainly a studly runner but your VDOT of 61.9 yields a threshold pace of 5:46 and if you where able to run the pretty ideal 80% of that pace that yields a 3:08 for your marathon. Since you seem to be a pretty nubee triathlete holding 80% of T pace seems incredibly optimistic. Was the your 2:38 marathon run in 80+ degree temperatures with high humidity?

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

To me, in any weather, 250 cals/hour on the run is too much. Everyone's different though. In the heat, even less cals/hour on the run for me.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

Gee - a 3ish marathon while playing drums and jammin a guitar......wow.....awesome.

sciguy - Yes a newbee tri-guy for sure - I've only done one Tri - a sprint distance about a month ago. I live in Houston so I do train in this humid stuff and for the last couple weeks I've added an extra layer (jacket, sweat pants) for most all my runs, spins, bike rides to get to max acclimation before this race. Weather is still the wildcard - the 2:38 was done at CIM in Sacramento in December - it ended just a touch on the warm side near 60ish and it was a bit humid most of the race but probably more like a <1 minute factor on the race.

The fueling is an extention of what I do for Marathoning since that's the experience I have to draw on. Typically I do 2x16 oz Ultrafuel (~100g complex carbs/16 oz) starting 3 hrs pre race then Poweraid first part then Gu at 5,10,15,20 miles - pretty much I was planning the same thing although if I can crame a bit extra I might need it. I've done the UltraFuel while biking for an MS150 last year and for a 90 miler training run a couple months ago - seemed to work OK. I've also done 3x16oz before a marathon but I had to start that 4 hours before the race - so I figued I'd stick with that Ultrafuel routine for the pre-race and bike starting 4 hours before and through the bike - add the balance bars which I've also done on the long bike rides to get to ~10-15% protein in the mix and a little fat along the ride.

I think hydrating is going to be my limitter because I'm a heavy sweater. Not sure at all how dehydrated I can get before I have to stop - I calculated out I was likely going to be down ~7% by the end even at maximizing the fluid input - so I may be trying to up that 28 oz/hr to see if I can push that limit a little. I bought a long sleeve white DeSoto shirt to help reduce the sweating - hope it works. Forecast has possible thundershowers in the day so weather could deliver some cooling of its own which would be a big help to me.

Thanks for the 80% rule of thumb - think I'll plan to start around 7 mpm for first 10k or so then see what I can do after that.

using accelerade and gels on the bike I aim fo 400cal/hr but usually only get in 300-350, I've learnt over the years to overshoot as I always seemed short if aiming for my actuall requirements. (guess that depends on how diligent you are)
Run I gatorade/water/and coke my way through with a red bull at 13mi.
I find being felxible helps as if things go awry, it's good to be able to live off the course and not have it ruin your day.
Good Luck

John,

The 80% of T-pace is for experienced triathletes doing everything optimally. Seventy five percent of T-pace is still considered reasonably good execution. Your 12 mile bike in a sprint triathlon really hasn't given you even a taste of how your legs will feel after 112 miles in the heat. Perhaps you have done a few long bricks and already know this.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

IronRN - I appreciate the advice to shoot for higher and expect for less than I shoot for. If I could get 350/hr on the bike I'd feel much better about fuel levels on the run. I'm amazed you can get all that on Accelerade and Gels - simple carbs - I was led to believe the body simply couldn't pass that much through the stomach - but your doing it.

Flexible sounds good too. Reading reports around here I'm seeing a lot of fig neutons and uncrustables so I was wondering if stuff like that was pretty wide spread proven. In 12 marathons I've never had GI issues and I've eaten all sorts of stuff in the race so I think my stomach can usually take most anything within reason - I'm ok with grabbing something new that's not too exotic.

Let me think about what I've done:

24oz Gatorade (about 1/2 of this 10 minutes before the start and the rest first few miles) + 4x100 cal/gel = 600 cal in 2:48 (adding 10 minutes for that first part of the gatorade) is ~220cals/hr and I usually carry another gel I can never get down - so maybe your right 250/hr is perhaps too aggressive - but since the run will be slower/ longer I'm figuring I just might get that 5th Gel down on this one.

I'm not really aiming for "everything optimal". I plan to error under the optimal for bike so maybe I can still go at or above the optimal for the run - that is if I don't run out of fuel or get dehydrated before the finishline. I want to maximize the roadkill on the run :).

I got 2 gels down on the entire run during IMSG last weekend. Drank most of my calories to keep the hydration going.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

It is rare but it happens I know one guy who ran 2:50 in his first Ironman which was also his second "official" triathlon.Admittedly it wasn't a hot day but he did do 2:51 in a hot Ironman later that year.


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Go with has worked in training. Big mistake many do in IM is consume to many calories that causes stomach issues on the run.

Have a plan and try to stick with it if it works if not adjust but do it in a well thought out manner.

I typically have a main nutrition plan I have worked on all season then a back up nutrition plan that I have practiced in training as well. I know both plans backwards so no thinking is involved. So if I change from one to the other I'm still getting in the right amount of calories, fluid and electrolytes.

Trust what you have done on your long bikes.

You have done the training now it is all about executing well and nailing your nutrition.

Good luck and nothing new on race day~

After getting PM from someone on this topic I did some chacking and fund out that I was wrong about my friends second Ironman marathon..He didn't run 2:51,he ran 2:46...

Just wanted to give crediti where credit is due..

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NP, I tried many different things my first few years and quickly learnt that my body does not like solids when racing. Yes it does seem like a lot of calories to get from Accellerade and Gel, I do take a bit of gator on course and the odd bit of grapes or banana if it seems appealing at the time, but it's more just to eat something when the mood strikes. I've also experimented this year with weak gator and maltodextrin, which in training thus far has been going well, I much prefer the flavour to accelerade, but it's one of those: nervous to change what is working kinda deals. I love the fact that I can keep the sweetness at a minimum though, so fingers are crossed, 1/2 IM in a month to test it out.
Best of Luck

     
and today's daily weather obsessing forecast for Ironman Texas is about right in line with what you'd expect here this time of year:

7am (swim start) 74°F with 93% Humidity (dewpoint temp 72°F) with a 7 mph wind from the south and 77% sky cover.
3pm (run start) 90°F (Heat Index 97°F) with 52% Humidity (dewpoint temp 70°F) with a 13 mph wind from the south and 43% sky cover.
6pm (finish) 88°F with 57% Humidity (dewpoint temp 71°F) with a 13 mph wind from the SSE and 43% sky cover.

As it happens - this forecast if it holds would be the 2nd hottest average Hi/Lo of the year so far.

Many ironman races have extra challenges because going 140.6 miles just isn't hard enough for this insane group of competitors. Some have hills, some have waves through ocean swims - IMTX has heat - quite possible this race will go into the record books as the greatest ironman challenge of all times (what the hell do I know - it could be). As quoted from one of my favorite kids movies The Monsters: "Now is officially the time to PANIC!!!!".

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I've got about ever symptom of taper madness I've ever felt from the last 12 marathons wrapped all together in one. One in particular I recall before Boston 2007 with forecasts of icy rain and strong headwind - nerveous yes - but fired me up for my first Boston Marathon - to not just run my first Boston - but to run one that would go into the history books as the epic Boston - year of the NorEaster was like a battle cry that jazzed me up. This hot ironman has a similar excitement about it.

On the other hand I'm terrified - I have recently come to the conclusion I don't have a clue what I'm doing. I've been so focussed on learning two new sports I didn't know how to do all that well that I completely took for granted perhaps the most important sporting event of all - the pigging out event. As I just now started hanging out on this triathlon forum I'm finding I am so clueless. I'm copying all I can from the fast guys I'm finding over there into a race strategy but so much of it must be untested and new on raceday that there is major risk.

KathyG - I do appreciate the advice of don't try what you haven't tested BUT I can't go with what I've tested because frankly - I haven't tested much of anything in the pigging out while riding or running department - so I'll be going based on the experience of those who have and hope for the best. I've never followed this advice in marathoning either - I've experimented like crazy for most every marathon I've run and I've rarely regretted my experiments so I'm not too freaked out about going largely new on raceday but we'll just have to see how it plays out.

This is going to be one majorly HARD event - and I'm excited as hell - come on lucky marathon number 13.

I just wanted to post about how much I love the thread you started asking about suggestions and feedback for fueling your first Ironman and then shooting everything down.

Good stuff.

BTW: Your balance bars are going to melt.

Nothing like going into an IM with knowing your nutrition plan inside an out!

Not sure what I "shot down" so a bit confused by the comment - I though I was sponging it all in actually.

Yeah I've given up on the balance bars idea - I did pick flavors that didn't melt but sciguy has been helping me through PM'n to realize the protein objectives from the balance bars isn't so important so I'm not planning that anymore. My current strategy which I'm still tweaking has changed to:

All Liquid:
Bike:
- 2x24 oz UltraFuel (1200 cal)
- Replace as much as possible of the water I'd planned with Ironman Preform on the course
- balance of the fluids to get to 28 oz/hr in water - Ideally I'd like to get to 80% Preform, 20% water - that would get me to ~400/hr - I'll target that but probably fall short but as someone here said he'd learned for hard knocks to target for more.

Run:
- Haven't really thought through yet but to get to a 10:30 Ironman by my calculations I must do a lot more than 220/hr which is what I normally get so I'm trying to figure out how to do that. I might try to get a little UltraFuel at transition into the first 10k at a little easier pace then try to pick up the pace on the sweet stuff for the rest if my stomach isn't in knots after the bike.

For Electrolytes I was planning Endurolytes but I read a race report that called those worthless so I'm planning now to pick up a bottle of Saltsticks and go with that instead. Dosage based qualitatively on how much I know I sweat, how much heat acclimation training I've been doing and a little wild as guessing.

4 days out - gotta do what I gotta do.

Please post race report next week. You have sparked a lot of interest as to how this race actually plays out for you.

Good luck on Saturday! You will most definitely pass me at some point on the run.

You are forgetting a major item - sodium/electrolytes. You are going to need at least 800mg of sodium on a hot day to keep you going. You have about 250 to 300 in your plan. Either you need to make that up with Perform or something else like salt sticks.

When in your life have you run a marathon starting at 2pm on a 100 degree day?

If you crack 11 hours, I will be shocked. If you crack 4 hours on the run, I will be shocked.

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I would also add in to wear your water.

You will need to drink and sweat less if you throw water on yourself at every chance. As you come to the
10 mile water stops, squirt what is left in your water bottle on your head, back, toss the empty and pick up the
fresh one as you pass through.

I agree that calories on the run are tough, there are a lot of stories here on ST about people wretching
their way through the last 10 miles. A GU every 5 miles sounds sensible...but again throw as much water on
yourself as you can through the aid stations.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I did mention the salt sticks plan in the post a couple up in my revised plan but thanks for catching. I'm hoping to get 4+ bottles of Preform down on the bike - I'll check the sodium totals against the 800mg target you've suggested.

You may be very right about the 4+ hr marathon. With all the heat training I've done there's no doubt in my mind I could knock out a low 2:50 marathon starting at 2pm on Saturday if I had nothing else to do. I'm going to start somewhere around 7s (3:05 pace) and see where it goes - if the HR skyrockets I'll back it off pretty quickly. My main concern with the run is getting too dehydrate. My calcs predict I'll be down 7% by the finish - I found a study that showed 1 out of 5 ironman finishers were down that much on a hot ironman so it could be I can still operate down that low but I'm definately down in no-mans land with that. The problem with a hot/humid day is the sweatrate doesn't change all that much by slowing down so backing off the speed somewhat makes the problem worse since I'll be going into a deficite longer. If I reach the point of too dehydrated I think my best strategy is to take a good long break where the sweating stops and I can actually drink more than I'm sweating - then get going again - I suppose I could walk rather than stop - but with my sweatrate (~4lb/hr running in the hot/humid) it might be in impossibility to reach the finishline at my fitness level no matter experienced or newbee I am at this thing.

Great point - thanks - I've just got in the mail a long sleeve white DeSoto shirt (yet another new think I'll be breaking out for raceday) that is supposed to do really well in the heat and humidity especially while wet. Great tips of using up what I've got on my back just before the aid stations, as I go. There's also all these pocket built into the back I was told to stuff wet sponges into as much as possible - not sure if that's practical to do during the bike but definately during the run I'll be filling them up with anything cold I can find along the way - hopefully ice.

I suspect my limitter in this race is not fitness nor nutrition nor even experience but rather hydration so I'm trying to think of every strategy I can to not sweat so much and drink as much as the body will take.

Kayry, I just completed IMSG (only my second tri) in very warm weather (90 degrees at the start of my run). Like you, I'm a stronger runner (albeit a slower with a PR of 2:55). The heat at IMSG sucked any will of doing a sub-4hr marathon. I just wanted to finish. I did well on the swim and bike and passed nearly 200 on the run. I saw many strong swimmers and bikers push too hard and bonk in the run/carted away to the med tent/SAG wagon, etc.

I don't profess to be a race nutrition expert. Whatever you do this weekend, STICK to a conservative nutrition plan and pace. In the end, you may not hit 10 hours, but you'll be much happier with a 10:30 than a DNF.

Also, get sun lotion REAPPLIED out of the T1 tent. The sun burn on my upper thighs is the only thing that hurt 2 days after the race. I've got scabs now.

I did IMSG 1 year and 2 weeks ago and I still have 'angel wings' burned into my back because I forgot to get lotion reapplied.
(I think they missed it at T1 also) . I just think of them as my IM tat.

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Just read your report - sunblock on neck and upper thighs - got it - I also seem to get a stripe between my shirt and my gloves too.

Congrats on exceding your goal on your second tri - Sub13!

You didn't mention in your report your fueling - any idea how much you got on the bike?