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LeMond Power Pilot

 

 


bazilbrush

Jan 28, 11 18:12

Post #1 of 172 (14967 views)
LeMond Power Pilot Quote | Reply

Does anybody know what the power pilot actually does please? Is it doing more than just counting the rpm of the flywheel and doing some maths? $350 would seem a lot if that is all it does.


Tom A.

Jan 28, 11 18:17

Post #2 of 172 (14953 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [bazilbrush] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

bazilbrush wrote:
Does anybody know what the power pilot actually does please? Is it doing more than just counting the rpm of the flywheel and doing some maths? $350 would seem a lot if that is all it does.

As I understand it, it not only measures the flywheel speed, but also the ambient temperature and humidity (along with the user entered altitude) to calculate the air density. After that, since they would know pretty well the drag properties of the fan, it would be fairly simple math to calculate the power.

So yeah...I guess that's ALL it does ;-)

BTW, I'm pretty sure it also records the data and allows you to download it as well.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/


Tom Demerly

Jan 28, 11 19:12

Post #3 of 172 (14930 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [bazilbrush] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

What would be a less expensive way to collect this same telemetry on this trainer?


Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com


bazilbrush

Jan 28, 11 19:51

Post #4 of 172 (14913 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom Demerly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Given the hookup with the garmin team, I would have hoped for a modified garmin speed/ cadence sensor that works with the revolution (using the magnet that is already on it). The rpm data is easy enough to obtain, then produce speed/ power approximations with a software update on the garmin device.

I realize this misses the refinement of air pressure adjustments, but I could live without that if it saved me $250.


drgwood

Feb 20, 11 6:23

Post #5 of 172 (14794 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [bazilbrush] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anybody hear any updates on the release date for the Power Pilot?


ollie3856

Feb 25, 11 10:09

Post #6 of 172 (14697 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [drgwood] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

they are still saying end of Feb/March 1 for shipping


dcrainmaker

Feb 25, 11 11:40

Post #7 of 172 (14654 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ollie3856 wrote:
they are still saying end of Feb/March 1 for shipping

That's inline with what I'm hearing as well.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com


JollyRogers

Feb 26, 11 13:34

Post #8 of 172 (14572 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom Demerly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tom Demerly wrote:
What would be a less expensive way to collect this same telemetry on this trainer?

For those of us with crank based PM's, a speed transmitter. Wouldn't have to be accurate - just send a number so my Joule will record. Or, I guess I could dig up my HR strap from a dark corner of my gear locker where it's been for a couple of years now.


RChung

Feb 26, 11 14:02

Post #9 of 172 (14565 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [JollyRogers] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

JollyRogers wrote:
Tom Demerly wrote:
What would be a less expensive way to collect this same telemetry on this trainer?


For those of us with crank based PM's, a speed transmitter. Wouldn't have to be accurate - just send a number so my Joule will record. Or, I guess I could dig up my HR strap from a dark corner of my gear locker where it's been for a couple of years now.
You could use an old wired PT head and harness.

Of if you really really really want to go cheap you could get an old speed pickup from a wired bike computer, splice a miniplug on the end, and stick it into the microphone jack of a scrounged up digital recorder. Then you'd have to write a little bit of code to calculate the time interval between the blips, convert that into speed, and from there to power.


ollie3856

Mar 2, 11 19:02

Post #10 of 172 (14496 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [RChung] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

was told these were supposed to ship yesterday or the day before, no answer from customer support...could it be another delay?


ollie3856

Mar 4, 11 12:10

Post #11 of 172 (14418 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

here we go:

http://lemondrevolution.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/finally/

Many of you have been patiently waiting for this announcement, and we are finally able to make it:
The Power Pilot has arrived.
We are currently in the process of receiving our first production run of the Power Pilot, and we will be shipping units to customers starting Monday, 3.7.11
Our immediate priority is to begin shipment of existing pre-orders, and these will be fulfilled in the order in which they were received: the first people to pre-order the units will be the first to get them.
The supply of Power Pilots is – initially – going to be very limited. We are working to assemble a shipping timeline so that we can accurately inform customers as to when they can expect to receive their orders. We do not have this information yet. When we are able to provide ship dates, we will announce it on our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/lemondfitness
Thank you for your continued interest in the Power Pilot project. We’re incredibly proud of the (finally!) finished product. Thank you for giving us the time to get this done right.
It was worth it.


tom314159

Mar 22, 11 9:17

Post #12 of 172 (14289 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hmmm. Has anyone actually received one of these yet?


psycholist

Mar 22, 11 9:27

Post #13 of 172 (14275 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Our immediate priority is to begin shipment of existing pre-orders, and these will be fulfilled in the order in which they were received: the first people to pre-order the units will be the first to get them.

I placed my pre-order the day I got the e-mail from them about doing so. I had to be among the very first. I've not seen my Power Pilot yet. Getting pretty fed up about it, too. Of course, indoor riding season has been over for about a month where I am, so it doesn't really matter much now. It's just the principle of the thing.


ollie3856

Mar 22, 11 11:43

Post #14 of 172 (14235 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [psycholist] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

it's ridiculous...especially announcing to the world that they are now available then not being able to answer when the eff they will ship out. I hear pro teams etc are getting theirs, maybe I'll get mine in time for them to be obsolete...hey it's only like 4 months late right?


fredly

Mar 22, 11 11:50

Post #15 of 172 (14228 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [psycholist] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
I placed my pre-order the day I got the e-mail from them about doing so. I had to be among the very first. I've not seen my Power Pilot yet. Getting pretty fed up about it, too. Of course, indoor riding season has been over for about a month where I am, so it doesn't really matter much now. It's just the principle of the thing.

Hi Bob,

Why don't I just re-print the response to your question on FaceBook here?


The simple answer (which also happens to be the truth,) is that your number just hasn't come up yet.

We're shipping Power Pilots out to customers in the same sequence as orders were received, and we're sending out shipping notices when orders are processed. If you haven't heard anything, it's because your order hasn't been processed, and you haven't come to the front of the queue yet.

Nobody here is particularly happy with the fact that we can't do any better on delivery timelines than to send a notice when the order is processed. We're totally beholden to the info we get from our suppliers, and they're doing exactly the same thing to us, IE, giving us info *as* they ship, with no future timelines available.

This *will* change, we're promised, but for now, we're simply stuck with very little info to pass on.

.

Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.







fredly

Mar 22, 11 12:02

Post #16 of 172 (14211 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
I hear pro teams etc are getting theirs...


I would appreciate if you could tell us where you heard that. It's completely untrue, and it would be nice to track down the source of the rumor.

There aren't *any* pro teams that are "getting" Power Pilots at this point, and the only pro athlete that has been given a Power Pilot is Simon Whitfield, who joined our testing and evaluation team for the Power Pilot project after being one of the first to purchase a Revolution.

There are definitely "Pro" athletes who have been asking me how they can get Power Pilots, and the answer to all of them has been a simple one: they need to get on line with everyone else.


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


fredly

Mar 22, 11 12:42

Post #17 of 172 (14179 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [psycholist] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

..as a PS, knowing that Bob (psycholist) was one of the first couple of hundred people to order the Power Pilot, I was able to check where he was on the list, currently.

Bob, you're in the top 10 on the queue. We have another shipment of PPs coming in tomorrow, you should be receiving a shipping notice via email in the next 48 hours.


This in no way contradicts earlier info in regard to shipping timelines: we're letting people know what we can, when we can.



.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


nealhe

Mar 22, 11 13:20

Post #18 of 172 (14158 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [RChung] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hello RChung and All,

I would like to use the LeMond with the SRM on my bike.

My problem is that the wheel magnet SRM sensor is at the full length of the wires (and mounted on the rear chainstay) and is about 5 inches short of the outer circumference of the flywheel.

I have thought about putting a VERY powerful magnet on the flywheel but 5" is a long distance to sense.



I am looking for a simple fix - rather than something like a painted white spot on the flywheel - sensed by a photo electric cell - generating a current to a coil on the chain stay mounted SRM sensor.

Perhaps a way to conduct the magnetic field of the flywheel magnet along an iron rod extension to the SRM sensor?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Neal

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster


Ex-cyclist

Mar 22, 11 13:23

Post #19 of 172 (14156 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [nealhe] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The only thing that will get you is speed. You can run your SRM without speed. You'll still get RPM, Power and Time.. IMHO, That's really all that's relevant when on the trainer.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp LAAeroCamp LA Feb 28-March2


fredly

Mar 22, 11 13:32

Post #20 of 172 (14148 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [nealhe] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi Neal,

When I'm using the SRM on the Revolution, I simply forego speed data, and manually start the session by pressing the "mode" switch. You *could* rig up a transducer of some sort to remotely trigger the SRM speed sensor, but wow... do you really need (pseudo) speed data that badly?



.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


AndyF

Mar 22, 11 13:39

Post #21 of 172 (14139 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tom A. wrote:
bazilbrush wrote:
Does anybody know what the power pilot actually does please? Is it doing more than just counting the rpm of the flywheel and doing some maths? $350 would seem a lot if that is all it does.


As I understand it, it not only measures the flywheel speed, but also the ambient temperature and humidity (along with the user entered altitude) to calculate the air density. After that, since they would know pretty well the drag properties of the fan, it would be fairly simple math to calculate the power.

That's quite an interesting concept, actually. It would certainly help keep power readings consistent.


AndyF
http://alphamantis.com
#findyouraero


BambooKing

Mar 22, 11 13:50

Post #22 of 172 (14130 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [AndyF] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Haven't received my power pilot yet, and can't wait to get it, but that in no way diminishes my satisfaction in the trainer. It is light years ahead of any trainer, and is a pleasure to ride every time I strap in.

"Wait.....and Hope" -Edmond Dantes


nealhe

Mar 22, 11 14:04

Post #23 of 172 (14116 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hello fredly, Ex-cyclist, and All,

Thanks for the tip.



I did not realize I could start my SRM manually - I thought I needed the speed input to make the SRM start.

The main thing I want is watts.

That would solve my problem. Yahooooo!

I am going to test it first and then place my order for the LeMond.

I know - Read The Manual - do not assume.

From SRM V Manual:


Turning the PowerControl on and off


The PowerControl turns on when:


You press the “Mode” button


The wheel speed sensor is activated by the wheel magnet passing by the sensor (i.e.

when the wheel spins, so anytime the bike is moving)


You connect the battery charger


You connect the download cable to the PowerControl and your computer, and

communication between the two begins (this only works if the serial port runs with

enough current, otherwise you need to press the “Mode” button)


Even if the PowerControl is on, it doesn’t receive any power data through the sensor cable until the

PowerMeter is turned on. This happens when you start pedalling, (backwards or forwards).


The PowerControl turns itself off when it hasn’t received any data for a 20 seconds. It stays on when the

battery is charging. The PC-V display shows the time and date when it is in stand-by mode, if the screen is

blank then the battery is completely dead. The PC-IV display turns off completely when the PowerControl
isn’t being used.


Cheers,

Neal



(This post was edited by nealhe on Mar 22, 11 14:28)


alvaro

Mar 23, 11 6:42

Post #24 of 172 (14041 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [psycholist] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

would it be possible to install a cheap speedometer on the flywheel and estimate power from speed?


BambooKing

Mar 23, 11 9:59

Post #25 of 172 (14005 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [alvaro] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anyone get theirs yet???

"Wait.....and Hope" -Edmond Dantes


gigamike

Mar 29, 11 14:59

Post #26 of 172 (8221 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [BambooKing] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I pre-ordered my Revolution and PowerPilot the very first day I could and just got the shipment notification for my PowerPilot today. I should have it by Thursday and will report back.


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 19:45

Post #27 of 172 (8164 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

got mine today, just did my first ride with it, device is great, DL'ed my data onto my mac and tried to upload to trainingpeaks...'error: file not understood'


gigamike

Mar 30, 11 20:09

Post #28 of 172 (8153 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I got mine today too but sadly, the cadence sensor won't work and so the whole unit won't work (they're going to fix that in a future firmware rev). Heartbroken after waiting that long though. That said, the guys at LeMond Fitness were super awesome and are overnighting me a new cadence sensor.


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 20:34

Post #29 of 172 (8148 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

it's weird, I can download the CSV and open it in excel and it shows time/speed/dist/power/HR/cad/calories every second, but trainingpeaks doesnt seem to like the file :(


gigamike

Mar 30, 11 20:37

Post #30 of 172 (8145 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Ollie, do you have WKO+? Have you tried importing the .csv into WKO+ and then uploading to trainingpeaks?


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 20:40

Post #31 of 172 (8143 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm on a mac, I dont believe there is a mac version of WKO+


gigamike

Mar 30, 11 20:42

Post #32 of 172 (8139 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Oh, that's right- forgot you said that. If you want, e-mail the .csv to me (michael.buckingham@53x11.org) and I'll see if I can convert it with WKO+. Since my PowerPilot isn't working, I can't generate a .csv on my own to test it out.


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 21:03

Post #33 of 172 (8124 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

cool, sent, thanks!


gigamike

Mar 30, 11 21:05

Post #34 of 172 (8122 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I did some debugging using some Windows development tools and WKO+ does not like the format (not a problem with the file type). I stripped out the very top row but it still chokes (though less seriously). This is going to be a big problem for me as soon as my PP is up and running. My guess is that the column headers have to be very specific. I'll tray and find out what they're supposed to be and let you know tomorrow.


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 21:09

Post #35 of 172 (8117 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

crap, thanks a bunch for the help, let me know if you get it figured out. Also, have you tried another cadence sensor (will it work with say a garmin sensor?)


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 21:13

Post #36 of 172 (8111 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Also, FWIW the manual is terrible, they tell you things like 'the power pilot ships with 2 preloaded training programs' and then dont tell you how to access them or what they are, and that you can 'upload training programs onto a USB then onto the power pilot' leaving out the small detail of what format they need to be in/where you need to build them first...sweet!


gigamike

Mar 30, 11 21:15

Post #37 of 172 (8110 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yeah, unfortunately, it won't work with the Garmin ANT+ cadence/speed sensor (GSC-10) because the PowerPilot is looking for a cadence signal only and doesn't know how to process the extra noise (per the LeMond Fitness Director of Engineering).


sdmike

Mar 30, 11 21:49

Post #38 of 172 (8096 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

gigamike wrote:
I got mine today too but sadly, the cadence sensor won't work and so the whole unit won't work (they're going to fix that in a future firmware rev). Heartbroken after waiting that long though. That said, the guys at LeMond Fitness were super awesome and are overnighting me a new cadence sensor.

So you are forced to mount the cadence sensor on your bike even if you don't want cadence or else no power reading?


ollie3856

Mar 30, 11 21:58

Post #39 of 172 (8089 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [sdmike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

the manual states that it will record no data unless it detects both sensors


gigamike

Mar 31, 11 8:09

Post #40 of 172 (8015 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ollie3856 wrote:
the manual states that it will record no data unless it detects both sensors

Yep, that's true and ridiculous. If the head unit can't detect one or more of the sensors, the unit locks up with a PAIR screen and is useless. I spoke with the head of development at LeMond though and they are going to fix that in the next firmware release. The head unit is paired with all sensors at the factory so manual pairing should never be necessary. Mine however was never paired with the cadence sensor and I spent HOURS trying to get off the PAIR screen before calling support. Their support team is excellent though, I just had some bad luck.


drgwood

Mar 31, 11 8:36

Post #41 of 172 (8000 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right? and does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website? Does not seem to understand
file and Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called


rruff

Mar 31, 11 8:40

Post #42 of 172 (7996 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [alvaro] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

would it be possible to install a cheap speedometer on the flywheel and estimate power from speed?

Sure... you could get quite a good estimate if you calibrate it and adjust for air density.



fredly

Mar 31, 11 9:07

Post #43 of 172 (7981 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi Ollie (and the rest of you,)

I'm going to try and respond to as many of the questions and comments as I can in this post, and I will follow up as I can throughout the day. I'm actually on vacation right now, and I just sent the family off to do their thing while I sit on the computer... they won't let me get away with that all day :0)

- downloading issues -

Training Peaks ( http://home.trainingpeaks.com/ ) will feature support for the Power Pilot in the next rev. of their Device Agent program. It is due out this week (they are telling me today or tomorrow.) Look for an announcement on their site, and I will post something up on this thread when it's available if someone doesn't beat me to it.

- Mac compatibility -

The Mac version of Device Agent combined with Golden Cheetah should provide all the functionalities desired by most people. Again, look for the next Rev. of Device Agent, coming very soon.

- combined speed/cadence sensor compatibility

Unfortunately, supporting this type of sensor with the Power Pilot is a significantly non-trivial effort.
The ANT+ combined speed/cadence sensors do not send out separate speed and cadence signals as provided by stand alone speed and cadence sensors, they send out a distinct speed/cadence stream, with both types of data combined. In order to use these sensors with the Power Pilot, we need to add capacity to detect and pair with an entirely different type of sensor, separate out the data needed, ignore the data not needed, maintain the dedicated "speed" stream (which we're using for the drive-wheel sensor,) Etc. Including this functionality is a much more difficult task than it appears at first glance, and there was simply no way we could include it in this version of the product.

- WTF? The unit won't work without a cadence sensor?

Having cadence data allows us to use it as a variable in wattage calculations, and do interesting things with those calculations. We aren't currently using this data this way, but requiring a cadence stream for the unit to function allows us to utilize this type of functionality in future firmware revs without the necessity of explaining the need for a cadence sensor that wasn't used earlier, and may have been lost, broken, disappeared, whatever. We may well go the other way, and remove the requirement for the sensor in the next rev of the firmware, but we felt it was better to do it this way to begin with, rather than face the prospect of future firmware revs requiring the use of hardware that people hadn't been using previously.

- The unit "locks up" if there is no cadence device present.

You will need to pair to both a cadence sensor and a Drive wheel sensor to exit the "pairing" screen/mode on the Power Pilot. It looks/feels like the unit is locking, but it just won't let you leave pair mode until you pair. This prevents you from *not* pairing, exiting the pair mode, and trying to operate a unit that is un-paired and thus will not function. As mentioned on the thread, all units are paired (or *supposed* to be paired) at the factory, and you should not need to worry about this unless you are trying to pair to, for eg, a pre-existing cadence sensor (which, again, must not be a combined speed/cadence sensor.)


Any other questions/comments?


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


gigamike

Mar 31, 11 9:08

Post #44 of 172 (7979 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [drgwood] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

drgwood wrote:
But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right? and does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website? Does not seem to understand
file and Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called

Right, you can't pair it with another ANT+ head unit like the Garmin Edge 500. Supposedly, TrainingPeaks is supposed to accept the .csv file the PowerPilot produces but I have not been able to get that to work (WKO+ doesn't work either though it tells you the file headers are incorrect). I've opened a support case with TrainingPeaks and will report back what I find.


drgwood

Mar 31, 11 9:22

Post #45 of 172 (7968 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I just got word from Training Peaks that Device Agent will support PowerPilot files for download and will hopefully be released today.
That should solve that problem at least.


drgwood

Mar 31, 11 9:24

Post #46 of 172 (7966 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

any idea why a third party CPU like the Garmin 500 can not pair with the Power Pilot? i was under the impression from the direction manual
that the Power Pilot sends out an ANT+ signal for third party CPUs to read?


fredly

Mar 31, 11 9:29

Post #47 of 172 (7963 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [drgwood] [In reply to] Quote | Reply



"But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right?"


You can link the Power Pilot to many Garmin devices that support the "fitness device" capability. Ray did a nice write-up on this utility here -


http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/09/brief-tour-of-ant-enabled-fitnessgym.html


"does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website?"


Please see above post for answer.


"Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called "


My apologies for that, my guess is there was some misunderstanding. Can you please PM me & let me know who you talked to so that I can follow up & make sure they are up to date?




.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.


ollie3856

Mar 31, 11 9:52

Post #48 of 172 (7937 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

thanks for the replies fredly...huge help having someone posting here in response to questions, and much appreciated

*update* new version of device agent with power pilot support is available and my first workout just uploaded fine

one other question. How do we go about creating workouts and uploading them to the power pilot (the manual tells you how to upload, but not how to create workouts)?

thanks again


(This post was edited by ollie3856 on Mar 31, 11 10:18)


fredly

Mar 31, 11 11:08

Post #49 of 172 (7912 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi Ollie,

You're welcome (and thanks!)

Creating workouts is - honestly - something that I, personally, have barely started playing with. We're working with the folks at Peaks Coaching group to flesh out the implementation of the uploadable workout feature, and we - and they - will be offering training program content designed for the Pilot in the near future.

We will be posting "how-to's" and updated manual content on our blog to support this feature and others, stay tuned to our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/lemondfitness for details. We will post there as new info becomes available.

The Power Pilot is capable of being much more than *just* a power meter, and we're working to support and develop these capabilities, but we don't have support materials for everything it does - and can do in the future - available yet.

To be brutally frank, the product as released does much more than the "just a power meter" product we originally planned for, and there was no way we could produce supporting documentation for these advanced features and still get the product to market in the timeline we had promised. We made the decision to release the product with documentation for the basic featureset, and follow up with advanced feature documentation online.


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


(This post was edited by fredly on Mar 31, 11 11:10)


ollie3856

Mar 31, 11 12:07

Post #50 of 172 (7898 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

gotcha, thanks for this...so there is currently no way, or no guidelines on how to say, create a workout in trainingpeaks (or elsewhere) and upload them to the power pilot right? (Feel free to PM me if easier)


fredly

Mar 31, 11 13:46

Post #51 of 172 (8842 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
there is currently no way, or no guidelines on how to say, create a workout in trainingpeaks (or elsewhere) and upload them to the power pilot right?


"No guidelines" would be exactly the correct way to summarize it. The capability is there, we just don't have the explanatory materials currently available to show users how to do it. It's at (or near...) the top of the list of "things we need to do next," but it just wasn't possible to get this "toolkit" done and available in time for release. Rather than delay release of the product to support a feature that wasn't an integral part of the unit's core functionality, we decided to delay the documentation process, do it right, *and* get the product in people's hands as quickly as we could.

These kind of choices are tough to make, but they're necessary sometimes, and we hope that by being completely transparent with the where/when/how behind them we can make it clear why we have (and will continue) to make them in an effort to bring the best possible products to market in as timely a manner as is possible.

We will have this info up and available as soon as we can, and I will post links to it as and when it comes on line.

Sincere apologies for the hassle, and I hope this all makes sense...



Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


sdmike

Mar 31, 11 18:26

Post #52 of 172 (8816 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ollie3856 wrote:
the manual states that it will record no data unless it detects both sensors

I followed the instructions and for a brief second or two, I saw some cadence being displayed. Since then cadence always reads zero, but there is power, hr, etc. I was able to save to usb and the file confirms (zero's for cadence, numbers for watts).

I think I can actually take the cadence sensor off now... interesting.

Couple of other observations:
* HR monitoring range is exactly 3.3 feet. I know this because if I sit up to take a drink and it is 3.4 feet, no more readings...
* It seems you actually have to hit start to get power readings. So you can't just spin for a couple of minutes and then hit go to record your workout session. If you did that you would get zeros and the unit would shut off.


BambooKing

Apr 1, 11 8:11

Post #53 of 172 (8768 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Got my Power Pilot today...thing is awesome...good job guys at Lemonds!!! Couple of issues though....it only reads my heart rate when I stop pedaling or get off the bike?? when I start pedaling the heart stops blinking and I get a blank spot next to HR area on the screen. Also, when I update my info in the system settings area only some data is recorded...my Tire Runout, Standard vs. Metric and Elevation...but the time and date always reset to 1/01/10 and 13:49.

"Wait.....and Hope" -Edmond Dantes


fredly

Apr 1, 11 11:09

Post #54 of 172 (8755 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [sdmike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
I think I can actually take the cadence sensor off now... interesting.

You need to *pair* to a cadence sensor for the unit to function. Once that happens, you don't need the cadence sensor for the wattage function to be operational as the current version of the firmware isn't using cadence as part of the wattage calculations.

Quote:
* HR monitoring range is exactly 3.3 feet. I know this because if I sit up to take a drink and it is 3.4 feet, no more readings...
YMMV on this one. the range of the HRM pickup tends to be pretty variable, depending on where the PP is positioned, where your HR strap is in relation to it, etc.

Quote:
* It seems you actually have to hit start to get power readings.

Yup. That is true.



--------------------------

Definitely, positively, please feel free to give us feedback on how the units are working for ya'all when you get some time in on them. We welcome feedback on our Facebook page at - http://www.facebook.com/lemondfitness



.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


sdmike

Apr 1, 11 12:36

Post #55 of 172 (8740 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Overall, things are good. Love the trainer, getting used to the Power Pilot. From what I can tell so far the power output reading is pretty accurate. Only real outstanding issue is the lack of capability with the downloaded .csv file and any software.
Really appreciate you coming on here and representing.


fredly

Apr 1, 11 14:24

Post #56 of 172 (8722 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [BambooKing] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
..it only reads my heart rate when I stop pedaling or get off the bike?? when I start pedaling the heart stops blinking and I get a blank spot next to HR area on the screen.

- the included HR strap doesn't have tremendous range - about 3 feet, as mentioned in a previous post. This is designed in to the "5k" transmission straps, to prevent cross-talk with other nearby users. We will have an upgrade ANT+ HR strap available for purchase soon, or you can purchase one of the other commercially available ones from a vendor like Garmin, Bontrager, etc. Honestly, though, it doesn't sound like this is your problem; it sounds like the electrodes are losing contact with your skin when you are in riding position. I would suggest that you try tightening the strap, wetting the contacts on the strap, or using electrode cream (like -http://www.amazon.com/...ctrode/dp/B000HZD2NU) to try and increase contact.

Quote:
Also, when I update my info in the system settings area only some data is recorded...my Tire Runout, Standard vs. Metric and Elevation...but the time and date always reset to 1/01/10 and 13:49.

- make sure you press and hold HR/kCal to get out of SYS mode. If you just wait for the unit to time out, it will not save all your changes.




Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.


fredly

Apr 1, 11 14:26

Post #57 of 172 (8721 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [sdmike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks, keep us posted!



Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


fatbastard

Apr 6, 11 9:45

Post #58 of 172 (8648 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Ok, love the trainer, and just received the Power Pilot the other day. I was encouraged to see that it was possible to pair the Garmin 310XT to get the power/HR/speed etc... But after reading Ray's blog (dcrainmaker.com), I am unable to mate the two. Has anyone had any success with this? I have enabled the 'Fitness Equipment' option on the Garmin.

Here's what I know so far.....
The Garmin can see it's own HR strap and foot pod, but nothing from PP
The PP can see it's own devices (HR/Power/Speed/Cadence)

Anyone have a step by step on this?


fredly

Apr 6, 11 10:23

Post #59 of 172 (8626 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi FB,

Here's what our director of engineering has to say on the topic:

Quote:
Yes, the console will pair with the 310XT watch and the 310XT can then upload the data streamed from the Power Pilot to Garmin Connect. However, there is a bug with the 310XT software such that the cadence and power graphs don’t show up on Connect. The max/avg data summary data is there but the graphs are not. Garmin is working on this and should have a fw update mid april.

No step by step written on this…I put it on hold until the Garmin bug was fixed.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


fatbastard

Apr 6, 11 10:25

Post #60 of 172 (8624 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Then I look forward to both the fw update and the step by step. Interesting that he was able to get the two to communicate though. I, on the otherhand, haven't been so lucky.


ollie3856

Apr 6, 11 16:11

Post #61 of 172 (8583 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

does garmin connect support uploading the raw file that the power pilot spits out? I can only get that information into trainingpeaks for now, not into garmin connect or strava and would prefer to not have to send that data to a secondary device to have to do so :)

also...any news on how to upload those workouts...waiting (somewhat) patiently


fredly

Apr 7, 11 6:45

Post #62 of 172 (8529 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
does garmin connect support uploading the raw file that the power pilot spits out? I can only get that information into trainingpeaks for now, not into garmin connect or strava and would prefer to not have to send that data to a secondary device to have to do so :)

That's really more a question for someone from Garmin than for me, but we do talk to them, and I will see what I can find out.

Quote:
also...any news on how to upload those workouts...waiting (somewhat) patiently


It's on our list of things to do, but we're a *very* small company with a *very* large list :0). We're working on it...


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


ollie3856

Apr 7, 11 10:48

Post #63 of 172 (8510 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

cool...I have been in touch with the strava folks to see if they can support uploading the csv file too


ollie3856

Jun 20, 11 22:19

Post #64 of 172 (8209 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

so...it's been a couple of months and have yet to see any more info on how to upload workouts to the Power Pilot (have read a couple of articles saying that you will be able to but have not seen anything definitive yet)...any updates (or have I missed something?)


solepower1

Jun 23, 11 22:42

Post #65 of 172 (8126 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm an Engineer, part time inventor and avid cyclist....Wanted to share some general thoughts on the PP and basic info on writing a workout for upload to the Power Pilot as it is not be something that a novice can achieve without doing a decent amount of homework.
First, the workout files that run on the PP are "FIT", this is an ANT file sharing protocol...."Flexible and Interoperable Data Transfer Protocol – Called “FIT” for short is an interoperable binary data transfer protocol designed to be compact and extensible". I'm a novice ANT+ developer thus I have access to development tools and additional data.
Basically....There is a FIT File for HR, Watts, Cadence, RPM, Speed, etc and each has a specific format. You write the raw file in a .csv format then there is a conversion tool that rewrites it into a FIT file.....There is a Software Development KIt that is available at ANT to write FIT files but you should be a fairly decent programmer as the core files are in C/C++/Java. Unfortunately to get access to this Development KIt will cost you a grand and at present I have not seen any means to elegantly create a FIT file without writing software.
I'm thinking that there has to be a simple way as I'm sure that ANT did not write all of the FIT files that are out there being sold for training purposes and I might guess that those that came preloaded on the PP where created in Canada.
I'm going to see if I can come up with a utility that will enable the average "Joe" to write their own files and I'll post a response in a week.
Lemond Fitness is being very honest when they state that this device has "capabilities that excede what they are able to put in a users manual at present" . Definitely the FIT functionality is the latest and greatest from ANT and is currently being supported on a number of smart phones that are ANT+ compatible or use a WII chip.

Couple comments for Lemond Fitness as I just took delivery of a PP and Revolution for Fathers Day.
1)Increase the accuracy of the watt meter by inserting a permissive string in the firmware that prevents Watts from being calculated when the crank is not being turned.
2) It would be nice if you could keep the backlite lit even at the expense of the batteries maybe by mashing the button twice in quick succession. Typically while training, inside lighting is less than minimal and the backlite being able to be selected on would be a nice feature.
3)I think that the technology is brilliant and simplistic.....In essence a human dynamometer......., you know the weight of the flywheel, Its diameter, how fast its spinning, how fast your pedalling...you can interpolate alot of data from this for sure.
4)My major frustration was waiting for firmware timeouts when something wasn't completed properly or is seemed like the unit got hung up. There should be some way of escaping/aborting from the configuration screens.

Excellent product that will mature and be a de facto training companion !


.


TouringMN

Jul 17, 11 4:36

Post #66 of 172 (7962 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I am attempting to find the owners manual for the Power Pilot online; is that hidden somewhere - or did I miss it?

Thanks for some assistance with that.


fredly

Jul 17, 11 7:29

Post #67 of 172 (7943 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [TouringMN] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi MN,

Nope, you didn't miss it. pending a website revision, we don't have the manual up on line. There's a hard copy included with the unit, but if you need an electronic copy, PM me your email address and I will send you one.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


ollie3856

Aug 7, 11 15:22

Post #68 of 172 (7749 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fredly wrote:
Hi FB,

Here's what our director of engineering has to say on the topic:

Quote:
Yes, the console will pair with the 310XT watch and the 310XT can then upload the data streamed from the Power Pilot to Garmin Connect. However, there is a bug with the 310XT software such that the cadence and power graphs don’t show up on Connect. The max/avg data summary data is there but the graphs are not. Garmin is working on this and should have a fw update mid april.

No step by step written on this…I put it on hold until the Garmin bug was fixed.



Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.

Is there an update on this now that it's August? I


slidell4life

Sep 26, 11 8:08

Post #69 of 172 (7331 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [bazilbrush] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I've had the Power Pilot for 4 months now, and I've had a number of problems with it. The easiest to demonstrate is the "avg speed" being inconsistent with the "distance" and "time" displayed.

Here's a video (albeit Blair-Witchy) that demonstrates my problem:

http://www.flickr.com/...dell4life/6178908017

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fredly

Sep 26, 11 8:17

Post #70 of 172 (7321 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Blair-Witchy," indeed.

I would love to be able to respond to your issue, but honestly, I have absolutely no idea what it is from watching that vid.

Please feel free to drop me a PM & I will follow up with you directly to troubleshoot your issue (not sure we can help with demonic possession, though...)


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


slidell4life

Sep 26, 11 8:48

Post #71 of 172 (7295 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fredly wrote:
"Blair-Witchy," indeed.

I would love to be able to respond to your issue, but honestly, I have absolutely no idea what it is from watching that vid.

Please feel free to drop me a PM & I will follow up with you directly to troubleshoot your issue (not sure we can help with demonic possession, though...)

At 1hr of riding the distance is 16.6 miles and the avg speed is reported to be 17.6 mph. This is consistently and repeatably incorrect.

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fredly

Sep 26, 11 8:57

Post #72 of 172 (7288 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"At 1hr of riding the distance is 16.6 miles and the avg speed is reported to be 17.6 mph. This is consistently and repeatably incorrect. "

Ok, that is strange.




By "...consistently and repeatably incorrect" you mean this is how the unit always reads?



.

Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


slidell4life

Sep 26, 11 9:02

Post #73 of 172 (7271 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The avg speed never equals distance/time. It's usually about 1mph faster than distance/time would be.

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fredly

Sep 26, 11 9:07

Post #74 of 172 (7264 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

OK, got it.

Thanks for the heads up, haven't seen/heard about this before.

Please drop me a PM with your contact info, and I will get in touch with you. We definitely want to get this sorted out...


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


FatandSlow

Sep 26, 11 17:55

Post #75 of 172 (7191 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm having the same problem. Off by 1.5 miles for an hour at 20mph.


fredly

Sep 26, 11 18:49

Post #76 of 172 (7464 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [FatandSlow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"I'm having the same problem. Off by 1.5 miles for an hour at 20mph. "

Thanks for letting me/us know!

We have identified the problem, and it's been fixed in a firmware update. We're looking to get the update out to folks as quickly as possible, and I will post up here as soon as we have it & the necessary documentation up online so that you can get it.

We're a very small company, and we just got back from Interbike & have Kona next week, so please bear with us as we work to get the update out to you...


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.



jwrdds

Sep 27, 11 5:39

Post #77 of 172 (7431 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

How do you get a firmware update?


FatandSlow

Sep 27, 11 6:38

Post #78 of 172 (7408 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the update. Love this trainer!


BambooKing

Sep 27, 11 10:55

Post #79 of 172 (7375 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [FatandSlow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Does anyone else have this problem.....when you have your 310XT synced with the power pilot, and you are using your Garmin ANT+ heart rate monitor, the heart rate does not show up on the pilot or the 310xt. When I ride the trainer/and on the road with just the 310xt the heart rate shows up just fine. The problem comes when I sync up the 310xt with the powerpilot. I wonder if it has something to do with the Garmin heart rate not being compatible with the Power Pilot. I have never used the heartrate monitor that comes with the Powerpilot because I have never been able to consistently make it work.

Also, does anyone else have the problem that when you really start cranking, or when you get out of the saddle, the chain begins to slip off the cassette in the back. Everything is fine, but when I put it in the large ring in the front and the 13-15 in the back, the cassette really starts to slip. I have put on a new chain, changed up the cassettes, adjusted the derailleurs, and adjusted the rear dropouts and the skewer, and it still slips. My local bike store told me that this is just going to happen when you have a bike thats rear end is fixed, and you start torquing and twisting the frame by pedaling hard. Is this the case???

"Wait.....and Hope" -Edmond Dantes


fatbastard

Sep 27, 11 11:00

Post #80 of 172 (7374 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [BambooKing] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Noticed this the other night when I was on the trainer. Had my Power Pilot on, and my 301XT and Garmin HR strap. All was well for the first hour, but then the HR wouldn't display on the Power Pilot. It was still displaying on the 310 though. Also, noticed that the Power Pilot shuts off at the 2:00 hour mark.


fredly

Sep 27, 11 12:19

Post #81 of 172 (7348 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [jwrdds] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"How do you get a firmware update? "

As per response above, we're working on the distribution for this, will post to this thread when it's available.


.

Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.



fredly

Sep 27, 11 12:42

Post #82 of 172 (7341 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [BambooKing] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Does anyone else have this problem.....when you have your 310XT synced with the power pilot, and you are using your Garmin ANT+ heart rate monitor, the heart rate does not show up on the pilot or the 310xt. When I ride the trainer/and on the road with just the 310xt the heart rate shows up just fine. The problem comes when I sync up the 310xt with the powerpilot. I wonder if it has something to do with the Garmin heart rate not being compatible with the Power Pilot. "


It's not a compatibility issue, but I can't tell you what it *is* without more info. Please drop me a PM and I will get in touch with you to get more info...


"Also, does anyone else have the problem that when you really start cranking, or when you get out of the saddle, the chain begins to slip off the cassette in the back. Everything is fine, but when I put it in the large ring in the front and the 13-15 in the back, the cassette really starts to slip. I have put on a new chain, changed up the cassettes, adjusted the derailleurs, and adjusted the rear dropouts and the skewer, and it still slips. My local bike store told me that this is just going to happen when you have a bike thats rear end is fixed, and you start torquing and twisting the frame by pedaling hard. Is this the case???"


It's definitely *not* the case.

We had over 300 people ride over 1000 watts on the Revolution at Interbike during our max wattage competition, and never saw anything remotely like what you're describing.

What, exactly, do you mean when you write "...the cassette really starts to slip."
Is the cassette body & cassette moving independently of the drive wheel of the Revolution, slipping internally like a blown clutch, or is the chain slipping off the cassette?


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


fredly

Sep 27, 11 12:47

Post #83 of 172 (7337 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Noticed this the other night when I was on the trainer. Had my Power Pilot on, and my 301XT and Garmin HR strap. All was well for the first hour, but then the HR wouldn't display on the Power Pilot. It was still displaying on the 310 though."

thanks for the heads up on the issue, I am forwarding this on to our engineers, and we will follow up to see if we can figure out what's going on. Please PM me with your contact info if you don't mind...


"..Also, noticed that the Power Pilot shuts off at the 2:00 hour mark. "

Fixed in the new firmware update, please see above. I will post up directions on how to get this as soon as I can.

(...and this drove me, personally, crazy so I kicked on doors until we raised the recording interval limit. It's something like 6 hours now...)



.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


fatbastard

Sep 27, 11 12:55

Post #84 of 172 (7332 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

PM Sent


BambooKing

Sep 27, 11 13:30

Post #85 of 172 (7316 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

PM Sent.

"Wait.....and Hope" -Edmond Dantes


js

Oct 1, 11 11:28

Post #86 of 172 (7251 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I cannot get the power pilot heart rate strap to pair up with other ANT+ units, Garmin 305 or Garmin ANT USB stick. Conversely I cannot pair my Garmin heart rate strap with the Power Pilot. Is the power pilot strap a standard ANT device? Looking forward to the average speed/ distance discrepancy fix.


(This post was edited by js on Oct 1, 11 11:30)


fredly

Oct 1, 11 14:32

Post #87 of 172 (7212 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"I cannot get the power pilot heart rate strap to pair up with other ANT+ units..."

The HR strap that is included with the Power Pilot is not an ANT+ unit, so this is to be expected (it *will* work with an uncoded Polar device, however...)


"Conversely I cannot pair my Garmin heart rate strap with the Power Pilot."

This is not a problem that I have heard of or experienced personally. If you haven't tried following the pairing procedure outlined in the manual, please do so. If you have, please feel free to contact us and we will try to find a fix for you - http://www.lemondfitness.com/support




"Looking forward to the average speed/ distance discrepancy fix."


We're working on getting the fix out to people. This will be one of my main priorities when I get back from Kona.




.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.






js

Oct 1, 11 15:14

Post #88 of 172 (7194 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the follow up. Good luck in Kona.


dormouse99

Oct 1, 11 21:33

Post #89 of 172 (7163 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Just got the Revolution and Power Pilot. Really nice machine but has anyone had this problem? As far as I can tell, the speed sensor is tripping twice or at least tripping inconsistently, as it is saying that I'm biking at speeds well in excess of 30 mph with little to no effort. So, I'm generating wattages above 3000. Flattering but kinda not true. Any easy fixes?


fredly

Oct 1, 11 21:42

Post #90 of 172 (7160 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [dormouse99] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"...As far as I can tell, the speed sensor is tripping twice or at least tripping inconsistently, as it is saying that I'm biking at speeds well in excess of 30 mph with little to no effort."

That sounds like a bad speed sensor.

Please contact us at -http://www.lemondfitness.com/contact so that we can troubleshoot and (probably) get you a replacement speed sensor.


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


KaiserChief

Oct 2, 11 3:40

Post #91 of 172 (7132 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [FatandSlow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Same here. My other issue is the automatic shut off at 2 hours. I need to figure that out (it may be on this thread or in the manual).


Joe C.

Oct 2, 11 5:29

Post #92 of 172 (7114 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In reply to --
===========================================================
"Conversely I cannot pair my Garmin heart rate strap with the Power Pilot."

This is not a problem that I have heard of or experienced personally. If you haven't tried following the pairing procedure outlined in the manual, please do so. If you have, please feel free to contact us and we will try to find a fix for you - http://www.lemondfitness.com/support

============================================================

I use a Garmin HR strap. The Power Pilot is mounted on the front wheel. In order to get the Power Pilot to pick up the signal from the strap I have to get off the bike and crouch down so that the strap is within about 1 foot of the Power Pilot, and hold that courch for 5+ seconds. It does NOT pick up the signal if I am sitting on the bike. Once the Power Pilot has the signal it holds it just fine, whether I am in the aero position or sitting up.

It's a minor PITA but not fatal.

HOWEVER, the inability to do the spindown calibration (in the firmware update?) is really a problem as my unit calculates wattages that are over 8% too high. I cannot intermingle the Lemond Files with PowerTap files in WKO+ as that would mangle important metrics such as TSS, which in turn distorts the Performance Manager.

We need that firmware update! Could you just email it out?

I do love the trainer.













-------
Joe



KaiserChief

Oct 2, 11 11:48

Post #93 of 172 (7066 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [FatandSlow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anyone get sweat/moisture underneath the clear screen?


Seanos

Oct 3, 11 15:05

Post #94 of 172 (7000 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [KaiserChief] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Had the PP for about 4 weeks and had downloaded data to a memorystick without problems.

A couple of days ago I tried to delete some stored workouts prior to downloading the rest to a memorystick. When I got to the Data Display mode but nothing was showing up - all the values were set at 0 apart from the Watt reading in the top right of the centre square which was reading 01.

I tried to download all the data to a memorystick but got a 'fail' message. I did a reset to factory settings but still have the same problems. I've stored workouts but they don;t show up in the Data Display mode. Any ideas?

Also, couldn't get it to pair to a Garmin 705, is this possible? If not, will an FR60 work?

Thanks


js

Oct 4, 11 19:16

Post #95 of 172 (6939 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Seanos] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Seanos wrote:
Had the PP for about 4 weeks and had downloaded data to a memorystick without problems.

A couple of days ago I tried to delete some stored workouts prior to downloading the rest to a memorystick. When I got to the Data Display mode but nothing was showing up - all the values were set at 0 apart from the Watt reading in the top right of the centre square which was reading 01.

I tried to download all the data to a memorystick but got a 'fail' message. I did a reset to factory settings but still have the same problems. I've stored workouts but they don;t show up in the Data Display mode. Any ideas?

Also, couldn't get it to pair to a Garmin 705, is this possible? If not, will an FR60 work?

Thanks

I have had two episodes where all data was lost, reported this to Lemond fitness last week. I'm not sure this is the cause, but to delete all data is almost the same process as saving all data except an extra push of the up button. I wonder if I could have inadvertently hit the up button while saving and not noticed. Both times were after a 5am interval session so I could have made a mistake. Seems strange to me to require a USB stick to be in place to delete all data, and use the HR/kCal button instead of CLR.

Am I the only one who thinks the data storage is crazy slow? Tonight it took over 25 minutes to store 4 rides, all 1 hour or less duration.


Joe C.

Oct 4, 11 20:32

Post #96 of 172 (6925 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

You're not crazy, data storage can be crazy slow. And data can disappear. It's a strange little unit right now but maybe the famous "firmware update" will lift it up from the prototype level.


-------
Joe



keen_but_slow

Oct 5, 11 6:13

Post #97 of 172 (6895 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi there Fredly / anyone,

I have a really dumb question : Is there a lap button? My winter "don't go insane" plan revolves around not having to concentrate too hard, so my chosen sessions I really need to see Power - Lap Average. I'm used to an ergometer where I could set the power (Tacx).

Alternatively, will the PP send data in real-time to a Garmin 705? Or even an 800 (I could be persuaded to upgrade).

Thanks,


Paul


giulioitaly

Oct 10, 11 8:24

Post #98 of 172 (6835 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi, im italian and sorry for the bad English.
The power pilot is bad very because is not compatibile with other ant+ devices such as garmin sensors. There isn't lap button and is not compatibile with goldencheetah.
Power pilot is compatible with the ant+ keys? I would like to use trainerroad.com to avoid power pilot.

lemond revolution is exceptional!!!




js

Oct 10, 11 18:09

Post #99 of 172 (6793 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [giulioitaly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Power pilot files can be downloaded with training peaks device agent and then imported to golden cheetah.


Nate Pearson

Oct 10, 11 21:37

Post #100 of 172 (6762 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [giulioitaly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

We're going to add support for the power pilot. It spits out the ant data in a different way then regular power meters. We need to get our hands on one and try it out to support it.

---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.trainerroad.com - Indoor Cycling Training System


ollie3856

Oct 10, 11 22:58

Post #101 of 172 (5949 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Nate Pearson] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Nate Pearson wrote:
We're going to add support for the power pilot. It spits out the ant data in a different way then regular power meters. We need to get our hands on one and try it out to support it.

sweet, now just add mac support :)


Nate Pearson

Oct 11, 11 7:07

Post #102 of 172 (5909 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Heart rate is done for Mac support, we are working on power now.

---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.trainerroad.com - Indoor Cycling Training System


fatbastard

Oct 13, 11 8:30

Post #103 of 172 (5867 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Fredly,

Can I use the cadence sensor (ANT+) with anything other than the Power Pilot? I cannot seem to get my 310XT to see it. Would really like to have cadence info when riding outside.


js

Oct 29, 11 9:55

Post #104 of 172 (5733 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fredly; Hope you are still watching this thread. I found the firmware update on Lemond fitness facebook page but cannot get the link to work. Any way else to get the update? I tried to pm you but cannot due to a very recent change in slowtwitch forum rules, members with low post numbers cannot pm. Thanks


EdmanZA

Oct 29, 11 11:00

Post #105 of 172 (5710 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The link is incorrect, you need to add a colon after the ftp. Here's the correct link:
ftp://files.lemondfitness.com/...dfitness/PowerPilot/


js

Oct 29, 11 11:55

Post #106 of 172 (5697 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [EdmanZA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

EdmanZA wrote:
The link is incorrect, you need to add a colon after the ftp. Here's the correct link:
ftp://files.lemondfitness.com/...dfitness/PowerPilot/



I should have noticed. Thanks


fredly

Oct 30, 11 11:47

Post #107 of 172 (5639 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Howdy,

Sorry for the delayed response, was out of town...

As has been posted already, that link is incorrect; Facebook did as Facebook is want to do, and somehow messed with the formatting of the link after it had been working fine for a day. We appended the correct link to the FB page as soon as we were made aware of the issue, and it's the same as already posted on this thread.


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


fredly

Oct 30, 11 11:51

Post #108 of 172 (5636 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Fatbastard -

The cadence unit included with the Power Pilot is a generic ANT+ device, and should work with your 310XT. Try dropping our customer service department a line on Monday, and we can try to work through the problem with you...


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


fatbastard

Oct 30, 11 12:45

Post #109 of 172 (5621 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Problem solved. One of your tech actually called me a couple of weeks ago to give me the new firmware update and to discuss a few other things. One of which was about the cadence sensor. The issue was that I had not switch the Garmin to look for just cadence. It was set to look for a combo sensor. Once I made this change, all was good to go.

Thanks for following up though.


fredly

Oct 30, 11 17:27

Post #110 of 172 (5581 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Glad we were able to help. I was pretty sure we had gotten in contact with you, but saw that that post was sitting on here, so wanted to make sure.



.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.
.


fatbastard

Oct 30, 11 20:00

Post #111 of 172 (5561 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

One last thing though. When uploading to Garmin Connect, for some reason the cadence is reported as "Run Cadence".

Take a look..... http://connect.garmin.com/activity/125422512


gilad32

Nov 3, 11 11:51

Post #112 of 172 (5466 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Is there a step-by-step for how to pair Garmin 310XT with Power Pilot?


fatbastard

Nov 3, 11 12:02

Post #113 of 172 (5457 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gilad32] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Make sure that you have 'Fitness Equipment' enabled on the 310. Turn on the 310, select 'Bike' from the mode selection page. Press the 'Play' button on the Power Pilot. This will turn the screen on on the PP. Wait for the Garmin to display 'Fitness Equipment Detected'. At that point, press the 'Play' button on the PP and begin your workout. The Garmin will display 'Timer Started' (typically 2-4 behind the PP).

This is what works for me.


fredly

Nov 3, 11 12:10

Post #114 of 172 (5450 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gilad32] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Is there a step-by-step for how to pair Garmin 310XT with Power Pilot? "




This is outlined in the Garmin manual, look for "Linking To Fitness Equipment."

If you still have difficulty, drop us a line - http://www.lemondfitness.com/contact

Edit to add:



What fatbastard wrote should work (does for me as well,) but I'm always hesitant to give step-by-step directions online for another manufacturer's product. With firmware revs being as volatile as they are, it's just safer to refer to the manual & then say "call us!" :)

.

Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.



(This post was edited by fredly on Nov 3, 11 12:14)


fredly

Nov 3, 11 12:16

Post #115 of 172 (5445 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"One last thing though. When uploading to Garmin Connect, for some reason the cadence is reported as "Run Cadence". "

Yikes... Honestly? No idea. I will forward this on, and see if anyone in engineering has any insight...


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


fatbastard

Nov 3, 11 12:20

Post #116 of 172 (5439 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Just as further reference, here is an outdoor workout with the 310 and the same cadence sensor (the one included with the PP).

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/121696763

This one correctly displays as Bike Cadence.


fredly

Nov 3, 11 12:48

Post #117 of 172 (5430 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks, will see what I can figure out...

.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.


gilad32

Nov 3, 11 13:12

Post #118 of 172 (5417 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks!
So no need to have ANT+ Spd/Cad or Power sensors selected as present? Or more accurately, should actually be selected as NOT present?


fatbastard

Nov 15, 11 12:42

Post #119 of 172 (5261 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Was wondering if you had heard anything regarding this (Run Cad vs Bike Cad)


TouringMN

Nov 18, 11 15:45

Post #120 of 172 (5181 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Any update on the capability to create workouts?

Have i missed something somewhere?


Seanos

Nov 26, 11 12:47

Post #121 of 172 (5041 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi Fredly,

All I want to do is get power data onto Garmin Connect but I can't get my 705 to pair with the Power Pilot. I've got an FR60 that will pair with it but won't record power data - any ideas?

Thanks


ollie3856

Nov 26, 11 17:02

Post #122 of 172 (5010 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Seanos] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

for the record, I have NEVER been able to get my Garmin (310XT) to successfully read data from the power pilot, I managed to get the 310XT to detect it, but even after repeated calls/emails with customer support it just would not work...the issue would be moot if Garmin Connect/Strava etc would support the files that the power pilot spits out but they dont.


fredly

Nov 26, 11 17:50

Post #123 of 172 (4991 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Seanos] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"All I want to do is get power data onto Garmin Connect but I can't get my 705 to pair with the Power Pilot. I've got an FR60 that will pair with it but won't record power data - any ideas?"


Howdy,

The 705 does not support the ANT+ Fitness Equipment Device utility, and as a result will not interface with the Power Pilot. The Power Pilot *does not* output data as a power/wattage device, it outputs data as "fitness equipment" and will show up on a compatible device as such.

If you contact our customer service department - http://www.lemondfitness.com/contact - they will help you to get your FR60 set up.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

M

..


fredly

Nov 26, 11 17:56

Post #124 of 172 (4988 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"I have NEVER been able to get my Garmin (310XT) to successfully read data from the power pilot, I managed to get the 310XT to detect it, but even after repeated calls/emails with customer support it just would not work...the issue would be moot if Garmin Connect/Strava etc would support the files that the power pilot spits out but they dont. "


We're (unfortunately) very well aware of the issues that are sometimes (often?) present when attempting to interface with the 310XT, and there simply isn't anything we can do to solve them, as they are completely outside of our control.






Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

M

..


fredly

Nov 26, 11 18:06

Post #125 of 172 (4985 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [TouringMN] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"Any update on the capability to create workouts?"


Sorry, but no update.

At this point in time (to the best of our knowledge,) the only people who have the native ability to write workout programs to the .FIT format are the folks at Peaks Coaching Group, who have invested significant resources to develop this capacity internally, and are producing excellent content.

We - and everyone other than P.C.G.- are still more or less in limbo, and the timeline for development of this resource has fallen far behind what was initially expected.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

M

..


pat.allen

Nov 27, 11 14:10

Post #126 of 172 (5651 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Sorry if it's been asked already, but I just got into the PP game.

Does the Power Pilot export data in such a way that my computer (Macbook Air) can pick it up through a wireless ANT+ stick (from a Garmin 310)? Or does one have to use a flash drive?

2014: 40k TT focus

Race reports at http://tripikapp.blogspot.com


pat.allen

Nov 29, 11 18:20

Post #127 of 172 (5589 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [pat.allen] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

bump, and to add:

I'm having trouble uploading my power file into PowerAgent. I can get the second-by-second readout in Excel (which isn't really all that helpful), but get an error message when I try to to upload activity data. The message reads
"java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "TIME""

The only help the manual gives is that the data "can be loaded directly into TraingingPeaks" by using a flash drive.

There has to be an elementary answer, but I wasn't able to find one in a frustrated, hurried search.

2014: 40k TT focus

Race reports at http://tripikapp.blogspot.com


fredly

Nov 29, 11 18:34

Post #128 of 172 (5583 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [pat.allen] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Howdy,


pat.allen, drop us a line - http://www.lemondfitness.com/support


We have customer support available via the phone or email, and would be glad to work with you to resolve your issues.


M


yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.








ck21trhc

Dec 8, 11 11:35

Post #129 of 172 (5494 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi
Any news on us being able to write some training programs for the powerpilot?

Eleonore Rocks Triathlon Team http://www.eleonorerocks.org
Sponors: Infinit (TEAMER 10% off), Kswiss, BlueSeventy, Speedfil, TriBike Transport, Fuelbelt, Blue, CEP, Rudy,
Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC


ck21trhc

Dec 12, 11 11:22

Post #130 of 172 (5418 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

any updates?
Also how do we sing up for the firmware updates.

Eleonore Rocks Triathlon Team http://www.eleonorerocks.org
Sponors: Infinit (TEAMER 10% off), Kswiss, BlueSeventy, Speedfil, TriBike Transport, Fuelbelt, Blue, CEP, Rudy,
Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC


fredly

Dec 12, 11 18:40

Post #131 of 172 (5372 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ck21trhc] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi Chris,

I think we answered these same questions for you on Facebook yesterday...

https://www.facebook.com/lemondfitness/posts/10150517039772783








Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.




ck21trhc

Dec 13, 11 18:56

Post #132 of 172 (5313 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yes thanks.

Eleonore Rocks Triathlon Team http://www.eleonorerocks.org
Sponors: Infinit (TEAMER 10% off), Kswiss, BlueSeventy, Speedfil, TriBike Transport, Fuelbelt, Blue, CEP, Rudy,
Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC


tigerpaws

Dec 19, 11 12:55

Post #133 of 172 (5249 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [bazilbrush] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Bazil

What's your feeling now that you have had the PP for a while? I love the heck out of my Rev and ride it like I stole it(kinda did it was a floor model wicked cheap!).

Would you mind running down a couple of pro's and con's from your long term use?


(This post was edited by tigerpaws on Dec 19, 11 12:58)


xntrickly

Dec 19, 11 17:43

Post #134 of 172 (5197 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Our team bought 4 of the Revolutions but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit. How is it that wattage is calculated and then displayed on the Power Pilot? Two riders in the same gear at the same cadence are not pushing the same wattage if they weigh different amounts or do I have that wrong?


Regards.


asad137

Dec 19, 11 20:06

Post #135 of 172 (5170 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [xntrickly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

xntrickly wrote:
Our team bought 4 of the Revolutions but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit. How is it that wattage is calculated and then displayed on the Power Pilot? Two riders in the same gear at the same cadence are not pushing the same wattage if they weigh different amounts or do I have that wrong?

My guess is it's based on the flywheel's speed. The resistance of the flywheel + fan (which is directly linked to the flywheel) should have a one-to-one correspondence with speed. Rider weight shouldn't matter for the calculation.

Asad


ironclm

Dec 19, 11 20:08

Post #136 of 172 (5169 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [xntrickly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit.

I haven't been able to get my PP to work with the HR monitor that came with nor the cadence. I haven't been home long enough to start from scratch, but I'm about ready to just put the Garmin 500 and cadence monitor back on (which did work) and say screw it to the PP.


clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
http://tnwomenscycling.com


sdmike

Dec 20, 11 8:11

Post #137 of 172 (5118 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [xntrickly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

xntrickly wrote:
Our team bought 4 of the Revolutions but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit. How is it that wattage is calculated and then displayed on the Power Pilot? Two riders in the same gear at the same cadence are not pushing the same wattage if they weigh different amounts or do I have that wrong?


Regards.

I think you have it wrong. They are not moving forward or up, so the wattage should be the same. It's like lifting a weight off the ground at a certain speed. It doesn't matter how much you weight, the power required is the same.


PSJoyce

Dec 20, 11 8:20

Post #138 of 172 (5111 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [xntrickly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I’ve been using the Power Pilot in parallel with a Quarq. After running the spin-down calibration for the Power Pilot, the power reported by the two devices is well correlated.


slidell4life

Dec 20, 11 8:22

Post #139 of 172 (5110 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I've had the PP for about 6 months. I've only used it about 10 times.
My impression is that the head unit lacks polish that we all expect from consumer electronics. Otherwise, the trainer is a dream, A DREAM, to ride. The power data is really nice to have, but I really want to upload it to garmin connect (or any service really) so I can see a graph of it later and send it to my coach.

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fatbastard

Dec 20, 11 8:24

Post #140 of 172 (5106 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I use my Garmin 310Xt in concert with the PP and upload my ride info to Garmin Connect all the time. Do you have a Garmin that is ANT+ enabled?


fatbastard

Dec 20, 11 8:27

Post #141 of 172 (5103 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Here's a workout I recently uploaded to give you an idea of what the final output looks like.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/134828980


slidell4life

Dec 20, 11 8:27

Post #142 of 172 (5102 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fatbastard wrote:
I use my Garmin 310Xt in concert with the PP and upload my ride info to Garmin Connect all the time. Do you have a Garmin that is ANT+ enabled?
I should have been clear, sorry. I also have a 310XT, but I've only gotten it to connect to the PP once. Even then, I failed to get the HR strap to work at the same time as the power/cadence/speed sensors. It feels like a very fragile infrastructure: Trainer to PP, PP to Garmin, Garmin to USB stick in my laptop, Laptop to the internet. I have a 10% success rate getting that all to work at the same time.

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fatbastard

Dec 20, 11 8:35

Post #143 of 172 (5096 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I know it's not the ideal way to get things to our training logs, but.....

As for you'r success rate, that's unfortunate. I have had a 100% success rate in getting the info from the PP to the 310.

When starting up, make sure that you...(this is my routine)
-Turn the GPS to 'Off'
- Make sure that 'Fitness Equipment is 'Enabled'
- I rest the PP on my aero bars next to the 310 and press the 'Play/Pause' button to wake up the PP. I do this while pedaling. Wait for the Garmin to say 'Fitness Equipment Detected'
- At that point, I press the 'Play/Pause' button again to start the workout. The Garmin detects the start request and begins the timer and data is streaming to the 310 from the PP.

Also, make sure that you don't have the Garmin set to detect a Combo Sensor. I have mine set to Cadence Only


(This post was edited by fatbastard on Dec 20, 11 8:36)


slidell4life

Dec 20, 11 8:49

Post #144 of 172 (5089 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fatbastard wrote:
I know it's not the ideal way to get things to our training logs, but.....

As for you'r success rate, that's unfortunate. I have had a 100% success rate in getting the info from the PP to the 310.

When starting up, make sure that you...(this is my routine)
-Turn the GPS to 'Off'
- Make sure that 'Fitness Equipment is 'Enabled'
- I rest the PP on my aero bars next to the 310 and press the 'Play/Pause' button to wake up the PP. I do this while pedaling. Wait for the Garmin to say 'Fitness Equipment Detected'
- At that point, I press the 'Play/Pause' button again to start the workout. The Garmin detects the start request and begins the timer and data is streaming to the 310 from the PP.

Also, make sure that you don't have the Garmin set to detect a Combo Sensor. I have mine set to Cadence Only

Those are great tips. Thanks!

I have "upgrade PP firmware" on my todo list, and then I'll try your checklist.

Also, if I set Cadence Only, do I not get speed? I see you don't have speed on your activity link, but there is an overall distance output.

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
Android: http://goo.gl/oWWkQN


fatbastard

Dec 20, 11 8:52

Post #145 of 172 (5088 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Speed is on there. It's just listed as 'Timing'. It's the chart at the top.


Buddha4

Dec 20, 11 9:14

Post #146 of 172 (5075 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fatbastard] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Although a small complaint is WHY did they put the light button right next to the stop? There is plenty of room above the screen to have move one of the buttons. I am sure some poeple have hit the stop button instead of the light.


fatbastard

Dec 20, 11 9:31

Post #147 of 172 (5063 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Buddha4] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Once I get going on my workouts, I rarely even look at the PP. Everything I need to see is being displayed on my Garmin.


Tom A.

Dec 20, 11 9:47

Post #148 of 172 (5053 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [xntrickly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

xntrickly wrote:
Our team bought 4 of the Revolutions but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit. How is it that wattage is calculated and then displayed on the Power Pilot? Two riders in the same gear at the same cadence are not pushing the same wattage if they weigh different amounts or do I have that wrong?

Yes, you have it wrong. The weight of a rider on a stationary trainer is meaningless. All of the resistance is generated by the flywheel fan.

For the Power Pilot, the speed of the flywheel is measured and then combined with a calculation of air density (based on temperature, humidity, and user inputted elevation) the power is very simply calculated from knowing the rotational inertia and aerodynamic properties of the fan. A coast-down calibration procedure is performed to account for varying "fixed losses" (i.e. from belt drive tension, bearing drag, etc.) from unit to unit.

It actually works fairly well IMHO (as compared to a recently calibrated CinQo) :-)









http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/


xntrickly

Dec 21, 11 18:55

Post #149 of 172 (4970 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks Tom, I really appreciate your ongoing efforts to educate myself and others... the graphs you present are very helpful !!!!


cheers and best of the season to all.




Tom A. wrote:
xntrickly wrote:
Our team bought 4 of the Revolutions but the problems with the Power Pilot discouraged any of us from purchasing that unit. How is it that wattage is calculated and then displayed on the Power Pilot? Two riders in the same gear at the same cadence are not pushing the same wattage if they weigh different amounts or do I have that wrong?


Yes, you have it wrong. The weight of a rider on a stationary trainer is meaningless. All of the resistance is generated by the flywheel fan.

For the Power Pilot, the speed of the flywheel is measured and then combined with a calculation of air density (based on temperature, humidity, and user inputted elevation) the power is very simply calculated from knowing the rotational inertia and aerodynamic properties of the fan. A coast-down calibration procedure is performed to account for varying "fixed losses" (i.e. from belt drive tension, bearing drag, etc.) from unit to unit.

It actually works fairly well IMHO (as compared to a recently calibrated CinQo) :-)







js

Dec 21, 11 19:33

Post #150 of 172 (4959 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tom A. Thanks for the great data. I've got a powertap so have not been able to correlate for myself. I was wondering what other users are seeing with their spin down calibrations. My values seem to vary a more than I expected. For example if I do 6 consecutive calibrations I get values ranging from around 142 to 166. Also the variation is random, not increasing or decreasing as the unit warms up. I assume that since the calibration is for a unit's individual resistance it isn't necessary to calibrate before every ride, correct? I have left my correction factor at 155 mid-range for the values it spits out.

As to tigerpaws question re: pros and cons. To me here are some cons, some mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.

1. Data loss. Not often but at least 5-6 times in the 6 months I've been using it ride data was lost. I was hoping the firmware update would correct this but lost ride data just last week. At end of ride data was there, USB drive connected, flashing FAIL message, data gone. I don 't know how many others have this problem but at least two others have reported data loss on this thread. I was streaming the data to a Garmin 310xt for back up but sometime the Garmin doesn't want to connect. As can be seen above linking a Garmin is just one more thing to deal with.

2. Displayed wattage bounces around much more than I'm used to seeing on my powertap. For the last 2 months I have been synching to TrainerRoad which helps me keep a steady effort. Say I'm trying to ride at 200 watts. I find it easy to keep the displayed power on TrainerRoad ( which is also calculating power by reading flywheel speed ) steady at 200 - 205. My data downloaded after the ride shows a good steady output. However the Power Pilot is bouncing around perhaps +/- 20 watts. Since there is no lap or interval average feature to me at least it's difficult to know how well I'm holding the target power.

3. Lack of user interface polish compared to other products. Example, if you go down into a sub menu often you cannot back up but need to wait for the unit to time out and go to sleep.

4. It's starting to look like the ability for users to create workouts isn't going to happen anytime soon.


(This post was edited by js on Dec 21, 11 19:37)


shish

Dec 21, 11 21:20

Post #151 of 172 (4996 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [trackie clm] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Had same experience with PP. Being a SW person, it looks like incomplete test work done on this to identify issues prior to release. Unfortunate. For us.


Tom A.

Dec 22, 11 8:05

Post #152 of 172 (4963 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [js] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

js wrote:
Tom A. Thanks for the great data. I've got a powertap so have not been able to correlate for myself. I was wondering what other users are seeing with their spin down calibrations. My values seem to vary a more than I expected. For example if I do 6 consecutive calibrations I get values ranging from around 142 to 166. Also the variation is random, not increasing or decreasing as the unit warms up. I assume that since the calibration is for a unit's individual resistance it isn't necessary to calibrate before every ride, correct? I have left my correction factor at 155 mid-range for the values it spits out.


I think the key to getting consistent spin down numbers is to be consistent in how you do them. Since the PP is looking at the rate of deceleration after you stop pedaling at the target speed, I try to make it so that I'm VERY slowly approaching that target speed and then stop. In other words, I think it might get "confused" if the speed is actually increasing quickly just before you stop pedaling. In any case, my spin downs don't vary by more than a unit or two.

Spin down calibration should just be a "once in a while" sort of thing. Do it after the unit is well warmed up, and then don't bother doing it again for a long time. After all, about the only thing that will change it is wear, or "breaking in" of the unit. So, occasionally doing the spin down to compensate for that will be a good thing. I can't imagine that doing it more often than every couple of hundred hours of use would really gain anything.

As far as losing the data goes...I haven't experienced that yet. Then again, my time on it is somewhat limited (my son actually has used it more than I have). My only complaint about the data download is how LONG it takes to write to the USB stick :-/

BTW, the percent difference I see between the Quarq and the PP is about what I'd expect there to be for drivetrain losses, which means that the PP should give a rider power numbers close to what they would expect for a PT. When you think about it, that's good, because I would expect the PT users who purchase a Revolution to be more likely to buy the Power Pilot than other PM users ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

(This post was edited by Tom A. on Dec 22, 11 10:12)


js

Dec 22, 11 10:01

Post #153 of 172 (4933 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tom A. Thanks I will give your spin down method a try, but I'll be off the trainer for a couple of weeks. I have been trying to use a consistent method after warming up the revolution but have not approached the target speed slowly. That make sense so will give it a try.


alvaro

Jan 16, 12 14:07

Post #154 of 172 (4645 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Can someone tell me how to do a spin down calibration or give me a link to the procedure?


Tom A.

Jan 16, 12 14:14

Post #155 of 172 (4634 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [alvaro] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

alvaro wrote:
Can someone tell me how to do a spin down calibration or give me a link to the procedure?

"The spin down calibration feature can be accessed by entering pair mode (Press and hold DIST/SPEED & STOP buttons) then you press the down arrow to enter the calibration screen, then press HR/KCAL to start the calibration and follow the prompts."

You need to have the latest firmware for this, BTW...the directions for getting that (if you don't have it) should be earlier in this thread, I believe.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/


tigerpaws

Jan 16, 12 15:00

Post #156 of 172 (4614 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tom are you using the PP on your Rev? Likes/dislikes? I keep bouncing back to a Quarq....then wanting to wait for Garmin...and never end up doing anything. A PT does me no good b/c I do 90% of my rides indoors these days and have a Rev myself. Thanks.


Tom A.

Jan 16, 12 20:21

Post #157 of 172 (4581 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

tigerpaws wrote:
Tom are you using the PP on your Rev? Likes/dislikes? I keep bouncing back to a Quarq....then wanting to wait for Garmin...and never end up doing anything. A PT does me no good b/c I do 90% of my rides indoors these days and have a Rev myself. Thanks.

I have one...I was sent it to help beta test the firmware. That said, whenever I ride on it I use a bike with a Quarq, so I always go by that. I don't ride it much though seeing as how I live in SoCal :-)

My son, however, uses it a lot. He seems to actually "enjoy" riding a trainer...well, the LeMond Rev, anyway ;-)

As far as likes/dislikes go...about the only things I'd say I dislike about it is the lack of "intervals"...and how long it takes to download to the USB stick. On the "likes" side? It appears to be fairly accurate :-)

BTW, I've always said that the "target audience" for PP buyers is PT wheel owners. Seems like a perfect match.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/


giulioitaly

Jan 26, 12 10:52

Post #158 of 172 (4448 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Tom A.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi, im italian and sorry for the bad English.
how to pair the Garmin Edge 500 with LeMond Revolution?
I'd like to see the wattage on the garmin because I do not like the pilot power
thanks



Tom A.

Jan 26, 12 11:03

Post #159 of 172 (4438 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [giulioitaly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

giulioitaly wrote:
Hi, im italian and sorry for the bad English.
how to pair the Garmin Edge 500 with LeMond Revolution?
I'd like to see the wattage on the garmin because I do not like the pilot power
thanks

I'm sorry, but that is not possible. The power calculation is performed in the Power Pilot.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/


slidell4life

Jan 27, 12 12:55

Post #160 of 172 (4373 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was on the phone for an hour today with Lemond support, and I still can't get the firmware update onto my PP (purchased in July 2011). I take out the batteries, insert the USB stick, re-insert the batteries, and the PP starts up normally. There is no indication that a firmware upgrade has occurred. I cannot get to the spin down calibration screen, so I can only assume the upgrade is not occurring. Lemond hasn't been able to help.
It sounds like some folks have had better luck getting the firmware upgrade onto the PP. Has anyone else had troubles? What are some common gotchas?

Note: I've tried different USB keys, different size drives, different file system format (FAT32, NTFS), and different batteries. I got the file fresh from the FTP site today. Also, there is nothing else on the USB drive. Every time I get the same result.

____________________________________________
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tigerpaws

Jun 22, 12 12:07

Post #161 of 172 (3699 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [slidell4life] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

slidell4life wrote:
I was on the phone for an hour today with Lemond support, and I still can't get the firmware update onto my PP (purchased in July 2011). I take out the batteries, insert the USB stick, re-insert the batteries, and the PP starts up normally. There is no indication that a firmware upgrade has occurred. I cannot get to the spin down calibration screen, so I can only assume the upgrade is not occurring. Lemond hasn't been able to help.
It sounds like some folks have had better luck getting the firmware upgrade onto the PP. Has anyone else had troubles? What are some common gotchas?

Note: I've tried different USB keys, different size drives, different file system format (FAT32, NTFS), and different batteries. I got the file fresh from the FTP site today. Also, there is nothing else on the USB drive. Every time I get the same result.

Did you get this sorted out?

I have a chance to get one at a great price, but I'm still seeing 2 issues. No way for coach to upload workouts and very long download times. Both of which add hassle to my life. The former making it almost not worth it.


Joe C.

Jun 22, 12 12:59

Post #162 of 172 (3684 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

tigerpaws wrote:
slidell4life wrote:
I was on the phone for an hour today with Lemond support, and I still can't get the firmware update onto my PP (purchased in July 2011). I take out the batteries, insert the USB stick, re-insert the batteries, and the PP starts up normally. There is no indication that a firmware upgrade has occurred. I cannot get to the spin down calibration screen, so I can only assume the upgrade is not occurring. Lemond hasn't been able to help.
It sounds like some folks have had better luck getting the firmware upgrade onto the PP. Has anyone else had troubles? What are some common gotchas?

Note: I've tried different USB keys, different size drives, different file system format (FAT32, NTFS), and different batteries. I got the file fresh from the FTP site today. Also, there is nothing else on the USB drive. Every time I get the same result.


Did you get this sorted out?

I have a chance to get one at a great price, but I'm still seeing 2 issues. No way for coach to upload workouts and very long download times. Both of which add hassle to my life. The former making it almost not worth it.

You can speed up the downloads by deleting prior workouts from the PowerPilot before downloading your most recent workout. It won't be fast, but keeping prior workouts in the PP's memory really made downloading slow, slow, slow in my case.


-------
Joe



tigerpaws

Jun 22, 12 13:03

Post #163 of 172 (3680 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Joe C.] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

How about uploading a workout? To the best of my investigative work, which might be incorrect, it's only with Training Peaks software using a 'DotFit' format?


Joe C.

Jun 22, 12 13:08

Post #164 of 172 (3675 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

tigerpaws wrote:
How about uploading a workout? To the best of my investigative work, which might be incorrect, it's only with Training Peaks software using a 'DotFit' format?

Sorry but I never did got into w/o uploads, so I've got no information.


-------
Joe



ck21trhc

Jun 22, 12 14:09

Post #165 of 172 (3661 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [tigerpaws] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

i have yet to find a software/place that can ride intevals/workouts to upload to powerpilot fyi

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jlafren42

Aug 12, 12 14:49

Post #166 of 172 (3366 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ck21trhc] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Has any new activity happened with the PP? Have they figured out a way to create/load workout's into the device? is it still buggy? are they on a 2nd generation yet?

John



Fab4mas

Nov 2, 12 12:23

Post #167 of 172 (2951 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [jlafren42] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hi all,

i've bought one of the last power pilot for lemond revolution avaiable here in italy (because the official importer told me that lemond is not going to produce it anymore since Hoist fitness, the new owner, is not interested to keep on producing it).

My problem is that i'm triyng to download a firmware update but the ftp site of lemond fitness hosts only broken files (even the pdf manuals are invalid). My power pilot is updated with the v50 firmware but on the lemond site was hosted the v63 version (PowerPIlot_v63.zip is the complete name of the file).

Is there anyone who has downloaded it before the ftp problem who can can send it to me. I know at the moment i'm not the only one with this problem so this could be helpfull for other guys.

Thank you all for your help

Fabio (italian Triathlete)

P.S before you ask me: i'v already send email and other request to lemond fitness and Hoist Fitness without success.


Fab4mas

Nov 3, 12 2:40

Post #168 of 172 (2817 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Fab4mas] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Fab4mas wrote:
Hi all,

i've bought one of the last power pilot for lemond revolution avaiable here in italy (because the official importer told me that lemond is not going to produce it anymore since Hoist fitness, the new owner, is not interested to keep on producing it).

My problem is that i'm triyng to download a firmware update but the ftp site of lemond fitness hosts only broken files (even the pdf manuals are invalid). My power pilot is updated with the v50 firmware but on the lemond site was hosted the v63 version (PowerPIlot_v63.zip is the complete name of the file).

Is there anyone who has downloaded it before the ftp problem who can can send it to me. I know at the moment i'm not the only one with this problem so this could be helpfull for other guys.

Thank you all for your help

Fabio (italian Triathlete)

P.S before you ask me: i'v already send email and other request to lemond fitness and Hoist Fitness without success.

just a up for the thread. someone else has a old firmware??


ck21trhc

Nov 3, 12 19:03

Post #169 of 172 (2679 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [jlafren42] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No still I idea bow to load workouts into it

Eleonore Rocks Triathlon Team http://www.eleonorerocks.org
Sponors: Infinit (TEAMER 10% off), Kswiss, BlueSeventy, Speedfil, TriBike Transport, Fuelbelt, Blue, CEP, Rudy,
Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC


Fab4mas

Nov 4, 12 7:22

Post #170 of 172 (2652 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ck21trhc] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

now that i've got my firmware v63 i 've done calibration. the value after this procedure for me was 176, the default i think was 230. Any other guy here has completed this procedure?

what value have you recorded?


Kula

Nov 25, 13 16:21

Post #171 of 172 (1591 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Fab4mas] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Trying to breathe some life into this old thread -- I recently got a good deal on a gently used Lemond Revolution trainer, and now I'm trying to figure out the best way to track my workouts.

I've got Garmin GSC10s on my bikes for cadence, and was considering a second for speed off the flywheel, but I found my local bike shop may have a good deal on the PowerPilot.

Do folks who have them think it's worth $200? Does anyone have a copy of the latest firmware (I assume that's v63)? I've checked around their site and Facebook page and couldn't find any links for it.


UKINNY

Nov 27, 13 4:59

Post #172 of 172 (1547 views)
Re: LeMond Power Pilot [Kula] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anyone using the power pilot having questions over accuracy

bought myself a quarq and there is a 20 watt differential (the pilot is higher) between the two on my 20 min test ?

i will of course use the quarq number for my rides outdoors but just interested

many thanks

 
 
 
 



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