Ah you have to love the PRE ITU BS.

Bikes were so much better to look at back in the day.

I think this is 1998:
Quintana Roo Redstone

1 Reviews
3 Quick Ratings
4.50 of 5

Rate it! 1 - worst 2 3 4 5 - best 1 2 3 4 5 Rating Distribution new Array(0,0,1,0,3);
Description
Redstone (#7005 aluminum) Aero-shaped carbon-fiber gussets. >QR's tri geometry including 78" seat tube angle >Carbon-fiber gusset >Carbon stabilizer diminishing rear triangle flex >TIG welded of ...

If I have the time to work with carbon at home, I would do something similar with my P2K frame.

One more:[/img]

Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.

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Love that front wheel..that is awesome

Scirocco's

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Jeremy

I actually have a road version of the Cinelli Laser that you picture. Its a dual disc with a 650 in the front. Right now it is geared with a 54 big ring and a straight block 11-15. Only time I ever had it in the big gear is down hill. Scared the **** out of me ! Passing cars with nothing in front of you !!

DB

   
Those Corima aerobars are hideous.

That nice couple in the first pic very certainly ahead of their time.

These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....

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This Max Lelli (which I think is a Chinese TT bike re-badged---though that's the subject of another thread) looks a lot like that Redstone.

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I can think of about two or three reasons...

:D

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim

lets you have a front wheel 'cutout'

frees up head tube shaping options, and that is the most important bit on the w hole bike

top tubes do still add drag, even on a velodrome, yaw isn't 0 the whole time there either

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Awesome! Thanks for the personal insight thats really cool.

Just saw you can purchase all of the Cycling Science articles on CD shipped from Mr. Kyle himself. I think I'm going to go order it.

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Didnt a few of those get stolen from a hotel hallway never to be seen again? Lon Haldeman had some one off WAY back in the day that had some weird ass brand on it but seemed to be about identical to the GT (then the Zipp came out...blah blah blah..)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I prefer to remember Lon on his Kestrel 4000 thanks ;-) (Oh, with a bungee cord from his hemet to the back of his seat)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

My all time favorite. Check out the depth of the blades on the fork. Apparently, this is not the exact bike Boardman rode.


http://www.flickr.com/.../4012704666/sizes/o/

The other side:

http://www.flickr.com/.../3597376510/sizes/l/


http://www.flickr.com/.../3912239447/sizes/l/

The road production version is a little different:

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1984 Olympic team bike


http://www.firstflightbikes.com/olympic.htm



From People magazine
August 06, 1984 Vol. 22 No. 6
http://www.people.com/.../0,,20088394,00.html

Maybe It Looks Funny, but Chester Kyle's New Olympic Bike Could Turn Out a Winner

"It's the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel," exults U.S. Olympic bike racer Roy Knickman, 19. "No other country will have anything to compete with it." The U.S. team calls it the "funny bike," but the new machine's performance is no joke. Pared to streamlined perfection the U.S. team's super-cycle may well help it ride off with a clutch of medals in the team and individual pursuit and 100-km team time trials at the L.A. Games. If it does, it will be partly with thanks to the aerodynamic wizardry of Chester Kyle, 55, the engineer and inventor who oversaw the bike's bizarre design. Deadpans Kyle, "So far it hasn't slowed them down any."

A professor of biomechanical engineering at Cal State Long Beach, Kyle has been pushing the speed limit for bicycles since 1973, when he first demonstrated that some 80 percent of a rider's energy goes into fighting wind resistance. His present generation of bikes, costing up to $20,000 apiece, were created by his six-man design team to weigh as little as 11 pounds. The frame tubing is made from a super-light alloy, cast teardrop-shaped with blunt end forward to slip through the air. All holes, which create drag by stirring up turbulence, were plugged or smoothed over. Spoked wheels can be replaced with plastic Kevlar disks.

Racers will wear Kyle's skintight suit, and the whole rig will be topped off with a swept-back helmet that makes the rider look—and fly—"like a missile," says Kyle. "Theoretically in a four-and-a-half-minute race," he adds, "the bicycle with the helmet, shoes and suit could save 11 or 12 seconds." In races where fractions of a second usually determine victory, that's a big margin.

The bike's unusually small, 24-inch diameter wheels also help. For example, in the team pursuit (a high-speed chase around the cycling track in which opposing four-man teams race over 4,000 meters) the tighter wheels allow riders to stay closer to one another and better use the leader's slipstream. "I don't think the bikes are intrinsically faster," says racer Brent Emery, 26, "but they allow you to sit closer and recuperate faster. The faster you recuperate, the faster you ride when you lead the pace line again." Steve Hegg, 21, a dark horse in the 4,000-meter individual pursuit, is more enthusiastic. "The bike's a big improvement," he says, "and Kyle's skintight suit is great."

A cyclist himself, Kyle founded the International Human Powered Vehicle Association, which sponsors an HPV race each year at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. "At first it was a joke," he says. "Now, with the energy shortage and the Olympics, people aren't laughing anymore." Indeed the speediest HPVs—low-riding, three-wheeled, streamlined pods called Vectors—have exceeded 60 mph on sheer pedal power. But the technological edge alone won't win races. Says Steve Hegg, "It's still the team riders that count in winning medals."

Original article:
http://www.scribd.com/.../Chet-Kyle-1984-Bike

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Can you however tell us who made the frames?


(Oh, I know I know I know!)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

And the Trimble...lets not forget the Trimble...so much for the P3C being "cutting edge"...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Yep Trimble was cool

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Serotta?

I am pretty sure that Trimble made the first commercially available behind the seat bottle launcher.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I dont know the answer, but thats not a bad guess:


http://www.nycvelo.com/images/arc_nahbs5.jpg

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serotta was most certainly the frame builder for those huffy bikes.

I would not be so sure about that......Ben was there and did allot of work, there was however a guy that flew in from 3Rensho :-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

ok well, maybe I spoke too soon. serotta made the huffy bikes for the 7-11 team, so I assumed that they made that one too.

No no, you are correct...but Yamagucci did most of the metal work. After there was a sort of falling out and each went their own way. Koichi started making some really wild stuff and ended up as the frame builder for many "Brand" name bikes that had labels from Huffy to Murray and Schwinn.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

interesting, I didnt know that. some good trivia knowledge.

Shall we bring up Tom Kellogg? He had more labels on his bikes than anyone I think


http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/1.htm

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

The scans of an article here, say that Mike Melton built it at the Huffy "Tech Center".

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1996 Sports Illustrated article on Project 96 with some bike pjorn

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I was off by one Olympics...maybe. Did you notice that the bikes in the images have Raleigh? When I was at OTC Springs (1990-91) I had the chance to hang out with Koichi and spent some time in his workshop. At that time he had a few of the bikes from the (at that time recent) past there.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

keep it coming- old tri stuff too!
Here is what I want pictures of:
1. 88 and 92 olympic ttt bikes
2. Kenny Souza bikes- Nishiki Linear, Haral
3. Mark Allen bikes
4. Aerolite bikes
5. Joel Thompsons 24 inch wheel Holland with the multi color paint and custom aero bars
6. Hamilton 24 inch wheel bikes with the Hamilton 3 spoke wheel
7. 1st generation QR superforms- the excel steel ones with splatter paint. Extra points for the Ray Browning prototype one. Triple extra points if John Gailson was riding on it with the "jesus is lord" sign swinging on the toptube at Desert Princess.
8. Any cool/wild looking aerobars- like some of the stuff Tinley would rock
9. Hookers
10. Anything that Kent Bostick rode
11. Aerosports parts

HUGE bonus points for anyone who can post of pic of Nick Taylor on his 24" wheel Sommer.

just kind of slipped that one in there, didn't you? (I know, I know)

Wasnt Kenny on the Nishiki NFS Alpha (NFS Beta was lower end). Tinley was on Scott DH, 100k and Extreme bars. Kent Bostic was on a Hooker was he not?


Splatter paint...GT baby!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

1988 Olympic Bike taken from First Flight website there is a scanned article there for a good read written by Chet Kyle. Check out those handlebars. Makes the Hed Black Dogs less revolutionary.







The lotus came out in 1992.

Looks like Yamaguchi made the TT bike in 1992:



I'd put my money on the 88 bike.

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Moser on a 42 inch rear and 24" front

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Not sure what this is, but its cool. (edit: Lotus Track frame??) Found it on the web at one point, now its in my TT folder in iPhoto.





My hope is that someone (or some company) will become inspired and grow the balls to make some TT bikes for the rest of us not bound by the UCI. I'll do the marketing. We can chat offline :)

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You can see one of these Project '96 bikes at: Rocky Mounts just off of Spruce St. in Boulder, Colorado. They have one in the lobby/window.

One obvious difference between the road and track versions is the fork... ;-)
If you use the track back on the road, make sure you only turn left...

I dont know Cannondale seemed to figure it out

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I'll drink to that.

That frame is a Lotus track bike for sure...the original Boardman model not the 110 sport re-mold version with two chainstays (bet you didn't notice there was only one chainstay...) & two forkblades. hotness.

The only bad part of that photo is that the BEAUTIFUL frame, rare fork, unique paintjob, aero crank, proprietary bars......and they mount it wwith a rear-training-wheel + mylar cover. It's blasphemous.

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My training

Hmmm...I don't know a lot of MTBs with bladed carbon forks though.

Why would that matter?

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I'm not a material engineer. I would assume that with a bladed fork, the lateral constraints could be too high.
That said...

Alf Engers. Alf dominated the sport in the UK in the 1970s. He was the man to beat at 25 miles. In 1978, he set a sub 50 minute time for 25 miles – 49.24, before tri bars and disc wheels.
Read more: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/...hotos/#ixzz0cO8O0Z9l

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

Looks alot like a Mike burrows bike that was made for Olano's attack on the hour record in the end he didnt try for it think he did some tests and couldnt get the numbers!

M@TTY

Boardman

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of course nevermind that the trimble there is just aero looking and not actually engineered. the top tube for instance is slowing it down.

which is a shame because the rest of it looks really nice!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

that is gorgeous!

i want that!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

god damn that is impressive.
before epo and shit too
his position is spot on, and its a pretty low drag 'helmet' there too

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Can't believe no one has posted this yet:

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My Blog

+1 on the all time fav Lotus

giant made something in 1992 MCR 1





1997 cheetah CAT ala natascha badmann although she had more aero brake levers

The risk of fractures is decreased by the additional inclusion of Kevlar in the laminary layers
Frame, X-Fork, Wheels Carbon - Kevlar Average weight of Cheetah normally 8000g - 8300 g depending on components Weight of frame approx.. 1300 g Weight rear wheel 650C 1020 g inc. freewheel Weight front wheel 650C 880 g Wheel base 1020 mm Bottom bracket- rear axle 400 mm Frame sizes 45 - 64 cm Steering head angle 72 deg. Seat tube angle
78 deg.








1987












hotta bike



pearson



graeme pearson was racing bikes like this PEARSON VENOM in ironman and duathlon about 15 years ago.. he made them himself



1986

someone posted this the other day - I forget who but if you missed it here is the first part (of 8 they link continuously on youtube) of a rare channel four (UK) documentary on Obree and Boardman. It's one of the best hours I've spent recently - check out the state of Obree's frame in the early backyard training scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/...35B05634&index=0

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

We've got a couple of the old superbikes here in the offce. The super narrow BB on these meant that the top tube would certianly interfere with pedalling among other reasons. I'm betting BB stiffness was another consideration.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Some pics of the Bursford bike:



and with a bigger chainring :)





There are a few others of this bike in the album:

http://s29.photobucket.com/...20Cycle%20Show%2009/

Some other interesting ones too - particularly the Shiv.

Nick

Don't forget the Hooker......I mean, who doesn't love a good hooker, right?



especially when they come with a retro website link too...
http://www.slowtwitch.com/.../hookers/hooker.html


jager

Had a quick look - looks brilliant.

I'll most likely watch it after swim training; I could be staying up pretty late tonight!

/Thanks for posting.

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My Blog

From the movie Brokeback Timetrial?

Anyone ever have one of these? Neither of these pics are mine but I had one just like it with a pair of Scott clipons. I'll try and dig up an old picture of my set-up (pre-digital days).





I believe it was a re-branded Nishiki. I bought one in 1986 when I was in H.S. and just getting into triathlon. The front 24" wheel was a little difficult to get tubulars for as there wasn't much of a selection. I sold it when I was in college and wish I still had it.

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Formerly DrD

This link turned up on the NorCal District email distribution list - the 1964 San Gregorio Time Trial. I wonder what these guys would think about time trialing these days - real racers don't need no stinkin' pointy helmets . Some of them could certainly be still racing but I don't recognize any of the names.

http://www.velovecchio.com/sangregtt/sgtt.html

Does this thing have an integrated stem/headtube dealy like the Trek Speed?

My first triathlon was the 1988 Bud Light USTS series event in Miami. I scanned a couple of pictures from that event. The first is Mike Pigg coming to the end of bike with the Scott DH bars and his Pigg Power Disc wheel:




Then me in T2 with a shot of some of the bikes:

Fun to see at least a couple of UNI disc covers. I remember rockin a bright green UNI cover with Profile Aero 1s with bright green taps on my bright green Norco Victory Tri-A. That was the eighties in a nutshell.

I did.

Got some pics?

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Formerly DrD

 
What about a pic of Paula Newby-Fraser on her bike with small wheels

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Robbie
http://www.instagram.com/trisutto

Bostick pics, back when he was on the Hooker - 1999 TN District TT:

Photos by Bill Parsons (http://www.sceniccityvelo.com)







2005 TN District TT

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ge_IMH_Winners05.jpg

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

We haven't had enough photos of people on tricycles smoking pipes yet. So I'm going to remedy that:



Norman Maggs, 24hr TT

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

It is amazing how much easier it is to get down in that good aero position with a smaller front wheel..........has anyone ever raced (in this forum) with a 650 up front and a 700 in the back??

The other thing I love about that Hooker Elite is Kent basically has no base bar, a single chainring (I think it was a 56t), and a brake lever on the aerobar. I'm not even sure he could fit 2 levers on the base bar.
When he rode the Hooker, I started behind him in a 10-mile TT that had a big climb in the middle (small ring for me) and I thought he had lost his mind-- then he commenced to beating everyone. He is just a mound of horsepower.

Here are a few more ("stolen" from an eBay auction)

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http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Wow, a real Roval front wheel....them were the days...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

yes but the hooker (and other funny bikes in this thread) were designed to have a smaller front wheel. It's really not the same as putting a 650 on the front of 700c bike

edit: sorry I thought you were replying to a different post. My bad.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

I think I still have a black UNI cover in my basement.

   
While looking through the rest of my photos I came across this picture of one of the Puntous twins in T1 along side her nor frills bike (#107). The twin is sitting on the ground wearing the red and white one piece tri suit:






Also riding the bike in transition.

Although she does have what looks like a Cinelli aero helmet

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As I described in another recent thread, back in the day I converted my dual 700C Hooker Cat. 1 road bike into a 650C/700C TT bike by retrofitting it with one of their forks.

Some Ebay action


http://cgi.ebay.com/...geName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



http://cgi.ebay.com/...geName=STRK:MEWAX:IT





http://cgi.ebay.com/...geName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Anyone know if TN still uses this course for districts? It is/was laser measured 40k and super fast. I think Bostic has gone under 49 there on a few occasions. I did it about 15 years ago and except for one tiny little rise around 20k it is pretty much dead flat with smooth pavement.

Bostic is an interesting character. Super fast, but to talk with him you would swear he was mentally challenged. The strange thing is that he's super smart and I think he's a hydro-electric engineer. Did a lot of contract work for TVA.

One of my favorite Bostic quotes, " Uh.. Have you ever gone so hard that you can taste metal in your mouth?" He went to give an explanation why that happens.. You could always tell when he was going to attack too... You would hear clunk, clunk, clunk as he shifted into the 11 and then a grunt and then the sound of his deep carbon wheels spinning up to speed. If you missed a Bostic attack you just weren't paying attention. The trick was holding his wheel at 50+kph and then trying to pull through to make the move stick.. uugh.. Great guy though.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

I've often wondered the same thing, as Bostick's 45+ and Hines' 30+ U.S. TT records are the only 40 km marks not set in Moriarty:

45+ 49:57.98 Kent Bostick, Dunlap, TN, 6/6/99

30+ 52:50.23 Phyllis Hines, Dunlap, TN 6/11/95

Kent passed me in this race in 1999 riding that bike. That thing was loud, and he was an animal. I remember watching him put that bike together a few times over the years before time trials. It fit in a little bag when it was all taken apart.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

Course is no longer used. There were several problems with drivers on the course, had a couple of people hit a couple of different years. The race has moved around a bit since leaving the Sequatchie Valley (that is the one listed as Dunlap, TN). That course was supposedly surveyed several different ways, and was at least very close if not dead on 40k.

That course was incredibly fast. There is as another poster pointed out one very slight rise, other than that, it is basically board flat. There is slight elevation gain to the turn around, so you get to ride "downhill" all the way home, also usually a slight tailwind on the way back (you had to ride into it on the way out, but I never noticed it til the turnaround).

It is really a shame the race can't move back there. but the locals in the area (I ride through that valley a lot) are not very friendly toward cyclists.

It is a beautiful spot, and there is a large century ride there in the fall that is usually timed to coincide with the fall colors, a great ride to check out.

http://www.chattbike.com

I live just on the other side of the mountain from that old course, it is basically Chattanooga, TN.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

Was going to say that is in the middle of BFE. The driver issues is not surprising, but the road is almost 4 lanes wide even though it is only marked for two. The paint lines on the road were thick and fast if you could ride on them. The last time I rode there was maybe in 91 (1st year Sr.) I can't remember. But I know I rode just under 55 on a road bike with clips,j-disc and more or less standard front wheel (30m rim with 24 blades). I also remember Hines smoking a bunch of men when she came out and I was still a Jr. (She would have smoked me too!) It would be nice to try to get on the course again.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

There were a lot of fast racers on that course at one time or another! My fastest 40k time is there as well, just under an hour, road bike with clip ons and Spinergy RevX wheels (how is that for old school).

The road is wide, the vehicle encounters were intentional on the part of the drivers.

I have had some interesting experiences riding through there over the years. Still love riding there though, great climb over the mountain from Chattanooga, beautiful little valley to ride down, and then you can take a little tar and chip road back through the river gorge, or you can climb several tiny steep roads out of the valley to get back to Chattanooga. I love it, even with the rednecks.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

You can probably get that low with a current bike. But it is doubtful that you could get that position. I am sure it is not even close to UCI legal- bars look way more than 80cm and are angled up.
Wonder what effective seat angle he is riding?

His 6 o'clock knee is even forward of the pedal spindle!

It looks to be on the P3 as well...and if you look at one of my profile photos, I'm not sure if that's such an unusual thing anyway...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Bump and, don't know if mine are considered retro or not: ( still race and ride 2 of them)

Sugino retro time trial crankset. Can be had for only $500, ridiculous.







Although, this looks as aero as my FSA Kronos that came out over 10 yrs later.

Australian Superbike-----looks a lot like a track Lotus with a non aero seatpost. Fork looks identical.



so small--modolo kronos




larger version here: http://www.flickr.com/.../3516607781/sizes/l/

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Dave let me know when you guys are ready to let those Superbikes go,they would be a nice addition to my retro collection. I am almost finished with the frame i got from you a few years back.

The 30+ Master's record is 52:50? Really?

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Yep (for ladies)

40 km
30+ 52:50.23 Phyllis Hines, Dunlap, TN 6/11/95
35+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
40+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
45+ 57:01.43 Julie Kaplan, Moriarty, NM, 9/6/98
50+ 59:01.12 Irene Asher, Moriarty, NM, 9/3/95

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Intertech Discet

Hard plastic sides bonded to a tubie. Vintage, I don't remember? Late eighties? Obviously used a freewheel...I'm thinking of building up a retro TT ride.

One of my favorite slowtwitch geek threads!

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http://www.marcosapenedoamaral.blogspot.com

I just got my Cycling Science archive CD. Is this it?

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No, that is one of the '96 bikes. Go way back to the first few issues and you'll see the original. If I recall correctly you will see Dave Grylls or Steve Hegg sitting on the bike.

Cheers,

Jim

The original mock up was a beam bike?

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The bike in the image you just showed was an early product of project 96. It was an aluminum frame bike welded up by Forrest Yelverton of GT. He's a very cool guy with a masters in metallurgical engineering if I recall correctly. Anyway, if you go way back in the archives of Cycling Science, you will find an article with prototype bikes from (I think) 1986. One of those looks a lot like the '96 bike.

In your comment above are you saying there was a beam bike in that article? If so, please post.

Cheers,

Jim

There's these???

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YES! The one on the lower right is clearly an early version of what ended up being the 96 Olympic bike. Note in the figure caption he says it was not as aero as the other prototype. Interestingly the one in the upper right looks a lot like a Lotus. These prototypes were built by Don Guichard who's day job was building composite structures for satellites. He now works for Cervelo. I believe he was involved in the final 96 bikes as well.

Cheers,

Jim

Yes totally. Thanks for the history lesson, much appreciated.

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Joe Bonness, back when dinosaurs roamed...

That bike made me want a GT Vengeance sooooo bad when I was in middle school. To this day i still want a GT Vengeance.

There are two on ebay right now:

one

two

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You are awesome my man! I just wish they were my size, I ride a 52cm road bike.

From my picture archives....
Sorry about the spacers...no knowledge of bike fit then.
...just after Lemond's 86'tour...had it for five years, first edition Scott's & Unidisc.

Slingshot in '89...Tim Deboom & Michael Tobin were winning on this...

That Slingshot seems like it would be fast with a wire for a downtube until you see this:



Airfoil can be 10 times wider than the wire and have equal drag.

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That Slingshot is cool. This may be one of the best threads on here.

Hello jeremyb and All,

Man do those bikes look nice!!

Cheers,

Neal

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

So how are there no Zipp's on here??? (I stole many of these from Slowtwitch posts, if you would like me to remove your bike please let me know)

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Zipp frame, Zipp bars, Zipp cranks, and.............HED WHEELS?!?!?! WTH?!

Anyone that likes this old stuff, I would recommend the Cycling Science Archive DVD. Not as much bike pjorn but fun stuff like this (taken from the what's new column):



This is from Sports Illustrated (January 1990):



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...MAG1069309/index.htm

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Hello jeremyb and All,

What I am struck by is the 'they have been there and done that' ..... a long time ago.

Hard to invent something new.

And the old saw "there is nothing new under the sun".

Thanks for the reference.

Cheers,

Neal

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

If this has got you all interested why not pop over to http://www.retrobike.co.uk/ for more retro lusting . .

2 questions ...

does anyone remember who made those on the fly adjustable seatposts .. springloaded horizontal fore/aft rail with a lever mounted on the handlebars, around in the 90s in triathlon ?


does anyone know what was up with paula newby frasers crank set in kona 96 ? the rings looked huge and the BB was very high and it looked like there were rotating crank extenension arms between the pedal and crank. i couldnt find a pic and didnt see anyone else ever use something like that ... does anyone know what they were ?

Sounds like Rotor Cranks. Not sure because I did not pay tri much attn in the 90's.

There's a link to the photo you're talking about above but here it is:



You can see the effect of the cranks on both feet - there's a distinct dog-leg between the amin crank and the peddle. I asked the same q their purpose a while back and was informed the idea was to put the ball of the foot nearer the peddle spindle like SMP pedals are supposed to do now but in a more pronounced way. One of the downsides was a big increase in Q factor (3cm or so). I think the rings were so huge just to compesate for the wheels being so small

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

  Okay, not TT stuff

Imagine my surprise when I showed up to do my first tri in many years in 2001, only to find that of about 180 guys in my wave, all but a couple who were sans wetsuit were in the black slippery suits more like today's. I truly looked "special", and my 45ish minute 1.2 mile swim confirmed it.

aaah seat shifter indeed...now my mind can stop chasing its own tail in circles between swift shift and grip shift...thanks !

http://i32.tinypic.com/23ll68.jpg

thanks ... thats the setup alright ... doesnt it look like it moves your foot a couple of inches away from the spindle and not closer ? maybe it allows the BB to be higher without changing your leg extension

thats awesome

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I think it works on the downstroke but if you have a good pull on the other side then you'd be ahead of the spindle...maybe.

One more question (and it's a crytptic one):

I have some old Kona tapes and on one of them (mid-late 80s) Mark Allen appears to have some sort of bungee going from under his saddle towards his bars. It's a close up so you can't see the whole thing and it doesn't look like the seat shifter mentioned above. If anything it looks a bit like the end of one of those sweat catchers you can buy to go on a trainer but the shot never pans out to show what the 'front' looks like. Any ideas?

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Note the Jetstream drinking system!

Edit: The Jetstream system had an inflatable bladder and you had to pump your drink into it. The drinking end had a bite valve and when you bit on it the drink squirted into your mouth. Pain to deal deal with but brilliant during the ride. My old school TT bike is built with internal routing specifically for a Jetstream tube.

I think Mark tried a strap that held his hips to the saddle to get more leverage/torque, could this be it???

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yeah, the seat leash (a steve hed invention) for leverage like in a recumbent bike ... there were also behind the seat drink bottle systems with a padded vertical plate to push off

http://community.active.com/...7/Seat-Leash-web.jpg

Someone also had some U-shaped bar that rose vertically from the seat that you were supposed to be able to push back against. It was truly a time where tri restarted bicycle innovation, or at least turned it in different directions. Here's a couple other blasts from the past:

Early Trimble behind the seat cage mount, and dt shifter mount for the Scott dh bar.

That's it! I am LOVING this thread

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

this was the same idea behind this saddle (posted earlier in this thread); to push back upon.

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C-Record with Deltas and Time Racing pedals....wow..

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

There's another one on there too, this one is set up 650c front and 700 rear.

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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's in my size to!

Gosh I love this thread.








How could a bulbous front wheel like this be faster???? Hooker was doing the opposite and making custom hubs that were ultra-narrow. I assume the other side of this wheel looks identical?

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this is the best thread ever

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I remember when that Moser came out - then Nashbar who at the time had their own house brand of frames tried to copy it with NO success.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

rolling resistance should be super low on the rear wheel!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

...not to mention the enhanced "splitter plate effect" of having that large(r) "plate" behind more of the rider!

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

There was a black hole wheel on ebay about two years ago...it went off for more than I was willing to pay for it; but it would have been way cool...I just remember how the hole kept getting smaller and smaller in the advertizements for it. Here are a couple:





The Bike stream is a pressuriezed drink system that I still have for sale ($30 if anyone wants it). I still have two sets of the bullet brake levers as well...if anyone has a really good project, I would could let you have them really cheap; as I would not use them since I made my own version.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

do bullet brakes pass tech as USAT races?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

They passed when Peter Reid used to race

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Another, this was 2004. Notice the Hooker front brake too. How many Ironman Pros have done that?


http://www.peterreid.com/photos.htm

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I can only assume 'yes', as I have a custom set that I made which are smaller, have better acutation (IMHO), and have a better profile; and of course are carbon.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

hook me up!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

When Roval use Sun rims?

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Ken Nowakowski

ken@probikesltd.com
http://www.probikesltd.com

Because then you would have had a softride and the engineers wouldn't have looked so smart

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--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I thought the purpose was to effectively shorten the crank when coming over the top but effectively lengthen it when applying power.

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--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

When I first started thinking about it that's what I thought but the explanation I butchered here was from Dan so either I misunderstood him (most likely) or he's got it wrong. On balance I think he's right though - look at her far pedal in the photo - with the crank at 3pm there is virtually no additional length provided by the hinged section.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

 
Probably like the Vista pedals claim to do today.

http://www.vistadeal.com/En/EtudeBio.php

On a horizontal position, the front crank length has been increased by the value of X : Optimization of the active phase during pedaling.

On a horizontal position, the rear crank length has been decreased by the value of X : Reduced time of return.

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Robbie
http://www.instagram.com/trisutto

Doesnt get much sexier than this I doubt it'll actually go for the $3k, though it is beautiful.

Looks like a Hooker fork on there??????

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Not at all, Vista is more like SMp that has its design to offset the lever that is the distance from the center of the bone in the ball of your foot to the center of the pedal spindle. That crank as Frank said was to lower the time it took to recover the pedal stroke and limit how high you had to move your leg to recover before falling back over TDC.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

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-

The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!

I saw that, very cool. You have any more pics? How did you come across it?

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.... they sound great ... do you have a pic for us ?

I still use them in both USAT and USCF racing, and have never been questioned. Of course most races aren't looking too close, but I did do the duathlon nationals last year, and they have people walking around. Mine are wrapped in stretchy tape to hopefully make them more aero.

Styrrell

my contribution ;)










yes....mine ;)

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=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com

Taken from this thread

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The beamers....

Holy Hotta! Looks like the top of the steerer on the red one would be in your chest.

I don't think that Pearson beam bike is retro........

Here's a blurry picture of a picture of my Mom in Kona around 1985...

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I had one for years. A little heavy, and a long top tube, but a great bike all around. I finally sold it 6 or so years ago, but still have some of the rare seat posts and NOS Project 96 GT handlebar tape. I did a few IM's on it.

Mine without the Mavic Cosmic Carbone race wheels. I ran a 56/42 front chainrings- had to modify the front derailler braze on a bit to get the front derailler high enough.

And yes, this is a great thread. Anybody remember the old Pigg Power sliding seat posts?

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

Here is my Bill Holland ti frame with his titanium "monorail" aeorbars. The aerobars attach directly to the front of the stem. I bought this used and when I took it to a bike shop to have it looked over, they told me the monorail had a hairline fracture. I found Holland's address, wrote him and he told me he doesn't make these any more, but send it in and he'd fix it. I did so and he sent it back a week later rewelded, no charge. I had to insist on sending him a check to at least cover his shipping cost. He's obviously one of those guys that believes a lifetime guarantee means, "if it breaks and I'm still alive, I'll fix it."

This is the system that all ITU aerobars should use. That would be the easiest system to allow ITU athletes to clip on some aerobars and match them up with a flat bar drop bar like you have. I could buy one for sure. Just a simple T shape extension coming out straight from the stem.

You have any photos of these seat post /parts? I am rebuilding a GT superbike3 and have had to make a lot of post parts.

This needed to be added to this thread:

Taken from here



I designed the original bar in, Nov/Dec '87, in my studio in Indianapolis. I thought at the time, after sharing my design ideas, etc., with Profile, I had a verbal agreement about royalties, etc., that i could trust. I was paid a paltry design fee, and then was shut out completely. The picture you post is the 2nd generation 'Add-Aero" with the internal telescoping wedge, (Profile's upgrade vs my collet clamp) that they ended up patenting in '91/'92. I was not listed as the inventor.
At the time I had designed the bar, I was unaware of the Scott clip-on, patented by Boone Lennon. I just thought that the 'triangular bar, Scott & Profile, wasn't the way of the future.
So we have the '88 TDF, and therafter things changed forever.
Ken Nowakowski

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I think the lack of top tube was an obree inspired thing- (i am speaking from reading elsewhere, unlike others i of course was totally uninvolved)

obree's custom made bikes had no top tubes originally- he did this because he felt knee position (very knock need almost touching) was really important, and if you have a toptube you cant bend your knees in for aerodynamics...

ive tried ridign that way, and it makes my knees hurt in 15 seconds...

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Cartels: Serotta, Zipp 2001, Guru, eh?
-"It was kinda long and then i got really tired"

Dont make me have to go to the attic and bust out the Scott 100k bars....

Wait, I am moving soon and am going to have to get them and all the other stuff out....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Have anything fun you want to sell me?

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Power Cranks.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

    

the scott 100k bars were very minimal... i think the next version were called Y1 bars (above) which only had one strut and you held it with one hand above the other , moving one shifter to the frame , with brakes angled like fishhooks on the side ...




from another post i made in...
Re: What 'high tech' gadgets does Chrissie Wellington use? Do you need the gadgets to be great? [Tom A.]

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1 piece aerobars (scott 100k bars) ...




http://www.peletoneast.com/...986&d=1245767691


trilite bars....



the slingshot frame ...



or ..



l




springloaded armrests

my bike, although now it has risers and spoked rear and is just a cruiser.

The Jim Felt engineered "drop cranks" that Paula used. If she were racing today the forum would be agog with excitement and threads dedicated to them and (almost) everybody would be rushing out to buy a set.
I recall that the idea behind the drop cranks was that on the downstroke pedalling force essentially "tipped" them forwards thus effectively lengthening crank length on the downstroke. Big chainrings to go with her 24 inch wheels.
They did increase stance width or "Q factor" but supposedly PNF preferred the wider stance.

Kevin

p.s. best thread ever! There was so much innovation from the 80's through the 90's that if the UCI hadnt stifled innovation what bikes, bars and positions we would be seeing now.

damn dude
feel like should I paypal you a dollar or something.

reminds me of the bit I just read in cryptonomicon where lawerence waterhouse is proudly showing a general his invention of the digital computer, while the general furiously takes notes to steal it for his computing machine business back home =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

This *is* the best thread ever, we should copyright it or something before the industry scans through it for new ideas.

I think I've figured out how dave scott was so fast without any technology

mustaches

we need mustaches

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

and profile's use of square clamps for round bars, now that was a wonderful idea!!

Those wheels remind me a lot of another other thread going on right now.

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At the time, not all handlebar clamp diameters were the same (Cinelli 26.4mm, TTT & others 26.0).

The hand grip cross section was different on a variety of bars as well.

I began with the V-Block design to be universal in application to bars available, fully realizing that a mating I.D. & O.D. would have been optimal, and presuming that the V-block design would be adequate.

I was not involved long enough after the initial period to do any re-design, bebugging, etc.

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Ken Nowakowski

ken@probikesltd.com
http://www.probikesltd.com

Jtek makes something similar:



http://jtekengineering.com/jtek_Axe_aerobar.htm

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Hehehe...I've been working on that ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I am talking about something just a lot more simply in design. Everyone wants to over engineer everything.

Make it as simple as possible.

Just a very simpe T shaped extension that mounted to the stem like shown but with maybe an aero shaped front wing that is at the maximum distance allowed. That is it. No armrest, brackets or anything else. Just a very simple aero fronted T.

Some of us still use them ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

On ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item56395e3ec9

Very nice! Love the reverse cable in the levers.

I bet at races folks try to figure out what bars those are and ask at their LBS who will have no idea.

I would also bet they are at least 1-2lbs lighter than many of the current carbon bar/stem combo's out today.

I never could get used to the Extreme though, shifting was a PITA if you wanted the F-Der to be up there too - and I would pinch my fingers in them climbing...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

The levers are actually CX levers that are intended to be run inline between the normal road lever and the brake...which is why there's an adjuster on that side of them. They also allow me to easily put brake levers up at the shifters if I ever so desire ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

yeah, but in my experience, they tended to slip unless you tightened them enough that they deformed the bars, which was bad.

thanks for the explanation ... PNF used those at least twice in hawaii.. was curious as to the what and why and how but info was scarce .



A totally different deformation for "better power transfer" (often voted worst cycling product ever) ...



PMP cranks ...

those pmp cranks fascinate me

someone can have the skill and knowledge to design and manufacture a crank arm, which is a culmination of centuries of technology really. math, metallurgy, business, and so on.

and then they don't understand that what they have done is completely pointless!

the human mind is awesome

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Does anyone have/remember the aerobar seat belt? I'm sure someone on ST still has one or has a photo. I looked everywhere but could not find a picture to post. I had one on my old Tri bike. My bike was a Vitus 979, Shimano 600 SIS, Scott Bars, Aerolite pedals, Campy aero bottle and my Aerodyne helmet. I was everything hated by the cycling roadies in the 80's. =)

I remember Mark Allen raced Kona with one. Come to think of it, there may be a pic in his book. I'll have to dig that out.

If I remember correctly, one country used them in the Olympics.

we mentioned it earlier ...

Thanks a lot.

Was looking to get a deal on that without ST'ers bidding against me.

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Does anyone know the width of these bars???



BTW----Tom, I think the setup looks awesome!

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I do... ;-)

Those particular ones in the pic above measure 28cm outside to outside as you have the line drawn. I don't know if there were variations on width or not for the bars...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

that is truly bizarre

i could see that being useful if it held me BACK instead of forward

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Aerolite not trilite

How about John Cobbs (I think) Speed Wing skinsuit? Remember that? It had batman wings under the arms.
Still want to see Hamiltons and Joel Thomsons 24" Holland. It had a crazy custom aero bar/stem combo that came up high off the super short front end.

Speaking of 24" wheel bikes, does anyone have a picture of Nick Taylor on his double 24" Sommer? Scary aero. Shoulders below hips (at least in my memory). Anybody?

About 15 years ago there was a masters guy in my area that had one- Bob Brooks? He could roll a 53 something 40k when he was close to 60. I remember the bike. Dual 24", super downward sloping toptube-

There was once an invention where you would hold a strap - IN YOUR MOUTH - that would then attach to the handle bars. This would enable you to use your arms to push down on your legs and steer with your chin...honest to god it was real.

Then there was the parachute that went behind the bike. I did a few rides on Via De Luna Dr on Santa Rosa island with the parachute...it was dayglo green, my bike was a splatter finish GT with a hot pink J-Disk....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

you guys that were adults in the 1980s
wtf were you THINKING?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I was only 17 and listening to a few pro's at the time and what not...sure did look queer as hell with that damn parachute going down the coast....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

"There was once an invention where you would hold a strap - IN YOUR MOUTH - that would then attach to the handle bars. This would enable you to use your arms to push down on your legs and steer with your chin...honest to god it was real"

why i actually remember this is a mystery to me, but i think i had the issue of bicycling where they reviewed it. italian cyclist giovanni jiboffo invented it/the "jiboffo technique". he designed a device which consisted of surgical tubing attached to each side of the handle bars, in the middle of the surgical tubing was a mouthpiece with a hole of the middle of it. when the gradient got steep he would sit more upright in the saddle, insert the mouthpiece, and place his hands on his thighs just above the knees to assist in pushing down on the pedals. he claimed something in the neighborhood of a 12 to 15% increase in speed climbing the hills. HORRIBLE idea!

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_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

its a gosh damned genius idea
its just crazy

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter