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New article on Brick workouts
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Hey guys,
Just finished a blog post on brick workouts. Here it is:

Hitting the Bricks

During training, a triathlete frequently attempts to mimic race conditions in an attempt to minimize outside factors which can affect their performance. One weapon in the triathlete’s training arsenal is “brick” training. “Brick” workouts are defines as training one triathlon discipline followed immediately by another, most frequently, a bike workout followed by a run. This article will focus mostly on this type of combination.
Brick workouts attempt to accustom the athlete to the demands of changing from one type of exercise to another. According to Milet et al , when looking at the transition between cycling and running, several factors negatively influence running performance. “Laboratory data indicate that triathlon running is harder than control running at the same speed.” (1) While most triathletes would undoubtedly agree, the protean reasons why the run challenges the athlete are debatable. Researchers have suggested glycogen depletion, ventilatory muscle fatigue, dehydration, leg muscle fatigue, redistribution of blood to different muscle groups, as well as modifications in running economy. Some or all of these factors may play a role, however, the ultimate result can compromise maximum running performance.
Training strategies can mitigate many if not all of the debilitating factors leading to an unencumbered running effort. That said, studies show that the elite triathlete gains little from brick workouts, presumably due to overcoming the aforementioned limiting factors either from previous training or from the multiple race transitions. Junior triathletes, however, can greatly improve ranking times after the cycling transition by employing some training and strategies:
1) Decreased cycling energy expenditure at a given speed results in increased running performance. Thus, athletes should take advantage of drafting in draft-legal competitions.
2) Increasing aerodynamics can decrease energy expenditure on the bike, thus, finding the most aerodynamic position can result in better run performance.
3) Increasing base aerobic capacity allows greater demands in the transition to be tolerated.
4) Short, back to back, brick sessions, i.e. cycling 10 k followed by a 2 k run followed again by a 10 k bike and a 2 k run.
5) Since the cycling transition compromises running economy, performing technical workouts focusing on maintaining running form after a cycling effort.
6) Minimizing the time in the transition area. ( A subject for a later article )
In summary, one can superficially see triathlon as three individual sports each which can be mastered in isolation. In reality, the intertwining of the disciplines frequently surprises the novice triathlete. The sport must be seen as a whole whose parts integrate in such a manner that the swim affects the subsequent cycling just as the cycling ultimately affects the run. Without such insight, the triathlete will never reach their maximum performance.

(1) Millet G, Vleck V, Physiological and biomechanical adaptations to the cycle to run transition in Olympic triathlon: review and practical recommendations for training. British Journal of Sports Medicine 2000;34:384-390


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Re: New article on Brick workouts [sebastian] [ In reply to ]
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That said, studies show that the elite triathlete gains little from brick workouts, presumably due to overcoming the aforementioned limiting factors either from previous training or from the multiple race transitions.\\


That is the one true statement that most people that have done many races should take from your study. Bricks are fine for those that are new, and have not yet expirenced the transition from each sport, but once you have been around awhile, they are not needed. Some people get some mental benifit because they believe they work, but in fact, they really do nothing physically to make you faster. Most top pros like to do their runs seperate from other workouts, so as to get the maxium speed from it. There is little fatigue or whatever in their races, witnessed by 10k splits that are within a minute or less of an all out stand alone 10k. Not much fatigue in running a speed that is less than 10 seconds a mile slower than your best....Brick worlouts in training at this level, only hinders an athlete's ability to try and take their running to the next level. There is certainly a training effect in doing bricks, but for a well trained athlete, the training effect is usually not a problem, or what is holding them back from going faster.....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Brick worlouts in training at this level, only hinders an athlete's ability to try and take their running to the next level.

For myself, I think the biggest downside to a Brick workout is the mental frustration that occurs when trying to mimic race conditions (pacing, etc.) when not properly tapered or rested for such an "event" and then getting out on the run and RPE and HR is sky high but pace is not as fast as it should be.

Lately, I have been finishing my bike rides by cooling, stretching, refueling and then heading out on my run 20-30 mins after the bike ride. I find I'm in a much better place mentally and able to deliver on my run goals.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Mark,

I agree. It's really going to depend on how much an athlete races. Years ago, we raced a lot - like every weekend, and running off the bike well with dead-legs became second nature. I rarely recall doing a specific brick workout(s) - although from time to time would depnding on how many races I had under my belt.

These days many rec-triathletes don't race as much, so to get that simulation of what it feels like to get off the bike and run right away, doing brick workouts, should be part of their routine.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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The ocasional brick is not going to hurt, and as I said, it will help build endurance. The ocasional anything is fine, but I hear of some athletes now doing over half their runs in bricks, and they believe that is the best way to improve their race running. And that is just not the case..
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [sebastian] [ In reply to ]
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One aspect you did not mention, which I feel is one of the key benefits of the brick workout, is the mental benefit - regardless of whether or not there are actual physical or race specific benefits from performing bricks, the psychological edge/knowledge gained from them is integral to my performance.

For example, after a long hard bike session, a 20-30 minute t-run gives me the knowledge of how I am going to feel for the first few miles of the run...one of the hardest points in a a race for me. While you can never totally mimic race conditions in terms of anxiety, tension, pressure, etc. - you can mimic, or a least have a good idea of how your body will respond. Furthermore, I know I sometimes tend to get cramps in my quads in the first few miles coming off the bike, but because of my brick work-outs I know that these will subside within 5-10 minutes and this knowledge gives me confidence and mental strength on race day.

On a simpler level, bricks train your mind to know that running follows riding. i.e. reinforcing the concept of thinking of the sport as a "whole" not three.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [sebastian] [ In reply to ]
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I've done triathlon for a couple of years now, I've noticed that I have a harder time transitioning from swim to bike rather than bike to run. I don't know if anyone else feels the same, but it's just hard coming out of the water (I barely kick in a non-wetsuit swim and not at all in a wetsuit swim) where the blood goes from your arms to your legs on the run to transition and in the early stages of the bike.

-------------------------
"I like to start out slow, and then taper off."

-Doug Thorne (TVHS XC)
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Xterraguy15-19] [ In reply to ]
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I am with you here and also going from horizontal to vertical instantaneously.
Toward the end of the swim, I definitively kick a lot more and I actually try to do some breast strokes/frog kicks just to get some blood in my legs...

Fred.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Xterraguy15-19] [ In reply to ]
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I've noticed that I have a harder time transitioning from swim to bike rather than bike to run.\\

A lot of that is because you will have your highest HR of the race, right there towards the end of the swim and through T1. So it takes awhile to bring it back down and get comfortable in a normal bike pace. And that goes for great swimmers as well as challenged ones. From bike to run, it is usually opposite, you go from a lower HR on the bike, and then gradually increase it on the run.

And for sure, there is some blood movement/muscle changes that goes on from swim to bike too, and all that takes just a little more time to sort out.....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I tend to disagree with you regarding brick running. Most of the seasoned triathletes I know (unless they are racing on the weekend) will do a hard brick session at least every two weeks. Usually multiples of shorter distance (run bike runs) or (bike run bikes). Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - like running fast off the bike - life is specific and you have to mimic in training what you plan on executing in a race. As far as changes in HR during a swim/bike/run race effort - I would suggest that a well trained athlete will have very little differences 3-5% variance throughout the entire race.

That said, a triathlete that wants to run fast needs to do speed work on the track or on the road in order to even have a chance at running fast during brick workouts. You need to do both speed work, and bricks to optimize triathlon run.

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The ocasional brick is not going to hurt, and as I said, it will help build endurance. The ocasional anything is fine, but I hear of some athletes now doing over half their runs in bricks, and they believe that is the best way to improve their race running. And that is just not the case..
Never say Never.

I experienced a VAST improvement in my running the last couple months since I started running almost exclusively off the bike. I noticed my running was often better after a mid to hard effort bike than when I went out a just did a stand alone run. So I started doing an easy 10 miler on the computrainer holding the HR in the 95-105 range and immediately went from struggling with 8:30 to 9:00 paced runs to being able to run 7:30 to 8:00 pace for my 4 to 8 milers. The explanation was simple, my legs usually hurt on the cold turkey runs so I compensated by slowing down. On warmed up legs I could run my normal pace. Every now and then I get lazy and do a stand alone run due to time constraints and it's a 50/50 shot whether I'll run at a decent pace.

JJ

Every night that I run, the thought crosses my mind that there's no way in hell I'll still be running a month from now.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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"Bricks are fine for those that are new, and have not yet expirenced the transition from each sport, but once you have been around awhile, they are not needed."

Concur 100%.

Unfortunately, bricks seem to be a hard habit to break for some...and others, once they've broken the habit themselves, want to disregard the initial benefits completely presumably because they don't accurately remember their early days as multisport athletes.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [tri4balance] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - like running fast off the bike \\


NO, there is something that will get you ready for running fast off the bike, running even faster in a track workout, or some other speed workout that is faster than race pace... Or being so fit on the bike, and pacing your race well, that you have those fresh legs starting the run...Like I said, a few brick here and there are fine, but just ask Simon Lessing how many bricks he did in his career??? (0) Not to say that the several hunderd races he did were not bricks in pratical terms, but he, like many others, saved those for the races. And in everything, there is just not one right way to get the job done. SO comments like you have to do this to get better, just annoy me...


As far as changes in HR during a swim/bike/run race effort - I would suggest that a well trained athlete will have very little differences 3-5% variance throughout the entire race. \\\[/url]


I don't know how many top athletes you have had monitors through out the entire race, but I have seen quite a few of those graphs. Without fail, all have their highest HR's during the swim, and it is usually more than a 3 to 5% from the rest of the race. After settling down on the bike, then you 3 to 5% is accurate......
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [jsquared] [ In reply to ]
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So I started doing an easy 10 miler on the computrainer holding the HR in the 95-105 range and immediately went from struggling with 8:30 to 9:00 paced runs to being able to run 7:30 to 8:00 pace for my 4 to 8 milers. \\

No suprise there, I would be in the same boat, you just got warmed up. When I talk about bricks, it is a race effort bike, followed by the run, not a warm up bike....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [jsquared] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
So I started doing an easy 10 miler on the computrainer holding the HR in the 95-105 range and immediately went from struggling with 8:30 to 9:00 paced runs

techinically this is a brick, but one could argue that you are simply warming up for the run. One (some would say main) purpose of a brick is to simulate race conditions. So instead of riding easy 10miler, ride it harder (probably a fair bit harder given its only 10miles) and then run. Another issue not discussed is the length of the run relative to the distance raced and accumulated fatigue.

One of the issues with bricks is doing the latter part of the bike portion too easy - coasting home for instance. If the purpose of the brick is to simulate race conditions then you need some load in the legs prior to the run.



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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [IRONMOSS] [ In reply to ]
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What you point out here is that you most likely ride too hard in training when doing a brick. You should be able to come off the bike non taper in training and run relatively well and in controle in most of your session. If you can't. you need to back off a bit on the ride and when you reach that level of execution where you can run well off the bike in training,. you will step yourself for performing very well on race day taper and rested.

next session, try to ride a bit easier and see how your running improve..this will be a very valuable lesson of pacing but it take humility to do so...

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [SimpleS] [ In reply to ]
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[/quote]
techinically this is a brick, but one could argue that you are simply warming up for the run. One (some would say main) purpose of a brick is to simulate race conditions. So instead of riding easy 10miler, ride it harder (probably a fair bit harder given its only 10miles) and then run.


No, you're missing the point. I added in these easy 10 mile bike rides on my longer running days specifically to improve my running by warming up the legs. I was already doing 2-4 mile runs after my hard bike rides and noticed I was running better in my bricks than in my stand alone runs in all but my real race level rides where I might get some cramping coming off the bike.


JJ

Every night that I run, the thought crosses my mind that there's no way in hell I'll still be running a month from now.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I did very few full brick workouts this season and didn't see any change in my running performance (and I usually finish top 5-10% of run splits for my AG). Even though I've tried to convince myself there must be a benefit, I just haven't found that to be the case. The only reason I ever do them, and believe there might be some value for AGers with day jobs, is that it helps me get in another run during a week since I have trouble getting in as many workouts in each discipline as I would like. If work/family commitments limit me to 8 or so workouts a week, I need to double up on some to get in at least 3x of each. Bricks let me keep up my run frequency even if I'm focusing on the swim or bike that week. A common "brick" for me would be an hour on the bike followed by 30 minute easy run.

I think people get lured by the idea of specificity. The problem is that unless you really push yourself, the workout isn't specific to race conditions. An hour on the bike followed by a jog is just a cool down. Sure you could push yourself and bike/run at race pace, but then you're really pushing your body and increasing injury risk. Take it easy on the bike, and as Monty noted, you're just getting a warmup. An even further irony is that a lot of the proponents of bricks on the "specific to racing" theory don't even live by their own words since they usually lolly gag through their transitions during bricks. I think there's a huge difference between starting your run after 2 minutes and starting after 10 minutes which is how most bricks are executed. You're better off entering a sprint tri and being forced to transition fast.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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most likely ride too hard in training when doing a brick

Most of the time, yes. Especially on Saturday with threshold intervals and then some unplanned hill climbing. Coach had me running HIM pace off the bike for 45-60 mins afterward. I was about 15-20 sec per mile higher than what I normally should be hitting in an HIM race situation.

So, you're right...I went too hard on the bike. :-)
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [tri4balance] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. My bricks are a very fast 6 to 10 minute run.
However a longer run off the bike IMO is also good for those of us that cannot get enough running miles during the week.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Mark,

I agree. It's really going to depend on how much an athlete races. Years ago, we raced a lot - like every weekend, and running off the bike well with dead-legs became second nature. I rarely recall doing a specific brick workout(s) - although from time to time would depnding on how many races I had under my belt.

These days many rec-triathletes don't race as much, so to get that simulation of what it feels like to get off the bike and run right away, doing brick workouts, should be part of their routine

I was the #2 amateur runner at the philly tri (1000 athletes) last year. It was first triathlon in 9 months and the third I'd ever done. Just think what I could have done had I done brick workouts ; ^ )

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I dont disagree that running speedwork is an essential component of triathlon training at all distances, I just think that in an ideal situation an athletes performance can be optimized by throwing in some "brick work". Simon Lessing is an amazingly gifted athlete, and if his coaches didnt think he would benefit by some brick training - then they were likely right. For newbies though and people running ironmans I think bricks are in the category of "definitely should". Especially at irondistance races where I dont think its possible to have fresh legs if you are chugging along at 70-80% of max for 4.5-7hours. For myself - fast brick workouts work - as does running off the bike after a long ride in order to get ready for an IM or half iron.

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [IRONMOSS] [ In reply to ]
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You run for an hour at HIM pace off the bike?! I have a run sometimes that includes that, it is by far my hardest workout of the week. I cannot imagine doing it after a hard bike ride. My hat is off to you.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monty

You are right that for world-class triathletes, key workouts are mostly single sport. But they have the time to structure their training to the optimum.

But the majority here are not able, myself included. Not that I'm a lousy athlete. I'm approaching 50 but my primary goal is top 10% in a race. I don't care too much about where I place in my AG. That is more than taken care of if I accomplish priority #1.

I am in the sport for the long haul because I love the lifestyle. But longevity as one ages-up is to stay injury free. And to place well requires aerobic endurance which means duration and frequency. About half the month I'm on the road so about all I can do at work is to squeeze in some recovery running and maybe a fitness bike in a hotel workout room.

So, when home, I have to brick continuously. In other words, a bike/run is for me one workout. Because I take pride in swimming well, the second workout of the day is a swim. Two workouts a day at home. For me running off the bike keeps me injury free because I'm fully warmed-up for the run. And for me there is no need to go anaerobic very much. Occasionally yes, like doing a 10 or 20 mile bike TT or the last 800 of a 3 mile run, but for the most part, the running off the bike is at max aerobic capacity. In order to develop more and more aerobic strength, I focus on lots of hills, bike and run. My new emphasis for the bike is extended grades at 142 hr. My key bike this week will be 80 miles, about 40% will be climbs at 142. 3-5 mile climbs at 4-6%. The key run is 8 miles with 4x1 at 7:30. The idea I'm shooting for is to develop the power to ride a half at 142 the whole way. I may be all wrong about this but time will tell.

And then run at max aerobic. For me in a half around 7:50 steady. A good swim and bike puts me right where I want to be.

Conrad
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [MuffinTop] [ In reply to ]
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You run for an hour at HIM pace off the bike?! I have a run sometimes that includes that, it is by far my hardest workout of the week. I cannot imagine doing it after a hard bike ride. My hat is off to you.

Yeah, I did last weekend. Probably a mis-read or mis-understanding on my part when looking at my workout plan from my coach.

On one hand, I feel good that I could hold about +15 sec vs. HIM run race pace...on the other I'm probably playing with fire as far as injury potential goes.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [IRONMOSS] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
On one hand, I feel good that I could hold about +15 sec vs. HIM run race pace...on the other I'm probably playing with fire as far as injury potential goes.

Yeah, that is pretty darn good! You are probably in PR run shape, I'd bet. Or, as you say, on the edge of getting hurt. Be careful!
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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This is always an interesting topic...so which workout is better:
3.5 ride hard ride w/ race simulation transition to a 90 minute run w/ the last 30 minutes at tempo pace

vs.

90 min run with 10 miles of race pace tempo in the morning then 3.5 hard ride in the afternoon

Oh yeah the brick is something that was talked about in the "Going Long" book. Both of these are for IM training and the last workout of the build phase.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
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Both workouts can be benificial, but I would definately choose the split workout. Gives better quality to both sessions, and I just think if you race fairly often, there is no need to try and duplicate race conditions. It was my opinion that I should do stuff faster than race pace to get faster, and bricking them did not do that. The only bricks that I ever did, were hard bike rides, with a 2k faster than race pace run on the track. I used to do that with Jurgen Zack when he was Ironman training. That was his brick session. His real running for improvement came on the track every week or so, where he would run 10X1K descending...

ANd to those that say you are doing bricks because of time constraints, that fine. You can only do what you can do, and the pros do not have those problems. If you have a two hour block, and all your work outs have to be done back to back, no problem. You will get a great training benifit either way. I'm only pointing out that at the pointy end of the needle, that it is not required to do bricks to get faster...As triathletes we will run into back to back workouts all the time, but in general I think that when targeting certain workouts to take you to the next level, they should be done fresh and at race pace+.....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
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i would not recommend either for ironman training. Choose a day that you dedicate for the tempo run and do a quality workout. Choose a day you dedicate to your long hard ride with lots of tempo work into it.

To put both in the same day is simply diminishing the quality of one of the two workout. Better planification would be a good idea to get the best out of the program and make bigger improvement.

And i would not recommend 90min run off the bike..ever. I simply dont see the point of such thing.

I would suggest you

tempo run on saturday, put a easy short ride and a swim

Do your long ride on sunday with key ironman pace work and finish it with a transition 20-40min run with some race pace in it. A lot more effective.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Last edited by: jonnyo: Jul 28, 08 13:32
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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"...plannification..."

sweet!



blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [show pony] [ In reply to ]
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Damit... a french word...hopefully...people will understand it...it s such a good word!

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
i would not recommend either for ironman training. Choose a day that you dedicate for the tempo run and do a quality workout. Choose a day you dedicate to your long hard ride with lots of tempo work into it.
Interesting as I've been doing this all during my "build" phase with good success so far...
In Reply To:
I would suggest you

tempo run on saturday, put a easy short ride and a swim

Do your long ride on sunday with key ironman pace work and finish it with a transition 20-40min run with some race pace in it. A lot more effective.

Hmm that seems to a pretty easy day. Maybe I just like torture or do you mean standalone marathon "race pace"?

I have been successful in working on my bike nutrition though w/ "brick runs" so bricks are good for that IMHO.

thanks..
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
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either day are very challenging IF EXECUTED WELL.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [tri4balance] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - like running fast off the bike[/quote]
Actually you should correct this to read: Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - except running fast in training.

Bricks are not the way to do that.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

In Reply To
Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - like running fast off the bike[/quote]
Actually you should correct this to read: Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - except running fast in training.

Bricks are not the way to do that.[/quote]
I get a kick out of reading many n=1 testimonials about how "I" could never do well in an Ironman without brick workouts. I think it's like what I've also read about so many swimmers possessing tremendous FITNESS, that they could swim all day at a 2:00/100m pace (admittedly, I am one of them, but that's another story) - so much time is invested by the average AG IM warrior in getting FIT while clearly not optimizing their abilities.

I guess I could argue that all the coaches, pros and ex-pros that have chimed in on this thread are right because I don't do bricks and I've gotten what I've tried to get out of my training, as opposed to those that have always done many bricks and they too have achieved what they wanted to achieve. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter what I've done in my quest for age group mediocrity - until I take the step up to elite performer (which at my age ain't gonna happen), as long as I swim some, bike some, and run some I'm going to keep myself in good enough shape to finish whatever event I toe the line at, but I'll not know "what could have been"
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [MuffinTop] [ In reply to ]
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You run for an hour at HIM pace off the bike?! I have a run sometimes that includes that, it is by far my hardest workout of the week. I cannot imagine doing it after a hard bike ride. My hat is off to you.
--

I'm an old (like, 9 years ago) Troy Jacobson-schooled lunatic who believes in the "suffer in training so that you can suffer even more in racing" school ;-)

It's not uncommon for me to do 2 or 3 bricks in a week. For instance, a Saturday 4.5 hour ride and then (after a 5 minute rest) a 50 minute run. Intensities are dependent upon what I'm trying to accomplish that week. Sunday will be a 1:30:00 to 1:45:00 run followed by a 30 minute to 1 hour easy effort bike.

My current favorite workout is a 2.5 hour HARD Computrainer workout (with at least one Spinerval session (1.0 or 2.0 are my faves) inserted and also two 40 minute IM race-pace "tempo" (maybe close to TT) blocks also inserted. Then a 45 minute run out on the roads. If it's prepping for an IM-distance race, it'll be at faster than desired race-pace and descending from there, with a negative split on the "back" of the "out and back." Shorter distance races are adjusted accordingly, though an Olympic distance race run wouldn't be close to what I can put out on the run leg in a race. That's just waaaay too much like actual racing, and the body doesn't know the difference between a training "race effort" and a racing "race effort."

BK
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - like running fast off the bike[/quote]
Actually you should correct this to read: Nothing gets you ready for running fast off the bike - except running fast in training.

Bricks are not the way to do that.
Sure they are!

Load a couple into a backpack, pad with a towel, then go run at your normal pace. When you take them off, you'll be flying!

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Again - in my own experience - I have found that many athletes I have observed and coached can run really fast on the track or on the road - but they dont optimize or translate that speed in a triathlon until they incorporate some brick training into their routine - especially before their "A" races. I am not advocating substituting brick runs for running speed work - I am suggesting that both are important. As an example if an athlete can normally run 5 by 1k on the track in 3:10 or better then I would have them do a workout like 2-3 by (1k run at 3:15 with a transition to a 4 k bike at 40km/hr plus and 1 k run at 3;13) with 5 min rest.

Call me crazy - but I really think this type of work helps athletes get off the bike are fly. Works for me and seems to work for the athletes I have helped or coached. I just think that there is merit to the study that is referenced that started this thread.

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [sebastian] [ In reply to ]
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Do you know how many subjects were tested in this study and what was used to determine improvement/running performance (sorry but I could only get access to the abstract on-line)? The reason I ask is that it appears to me that many studies use very few athletes (e.g. 10), very gifted athletes, completely novice athletes and/or use a subjective endpoint (e.g. time to exhaustion). It is easy to draw too many conclusions on too little data.

One thing to keep in mind is that this article describes training for Olympic distance tris. Although nutrition and pacing are important for all distances, they do not seem to have as profound (i.e. ability to measure) impact on pacing. When training for HIMs & IMs, doing some quality bricks can help athletes at a variety of levels dial in pacing and nutrition requirements. Mental aspects of triathlon are especially important for long course racing.

Elite and highly experienced athletes may know exactly how hard to push, when to hold back, how much to drink/eat for 95F days and what adjustments to make for a 70F day but I speculate that this info has come from years of racing. Athletes who have not been racing for years at their current fitness level do not have this wealth of race experience, can supplement their experience with quality brick workouts. This is not to suggest that discipline-specific workouts are less effective than bricks but IMHO bricks can be a highly valuable tool to have in the training plan. You won't gain much from any workout that is just a check box or filler to add volume for volume's sake.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I was consulting with Simon Lessing in an attempt to get into shape after my latest knee surgery and the 2nd in the last 12 months. I was shocked to hear he never did bricks and believes it is of no value to a triathlete that has been in the sport for a long time.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [aimmd] [ In reply to ]
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That's exactly what I've been trying to say, if you have raced a fair amount, there really is no physical advantage to bricks. They won't hurt you if done in moderation, and many will get some psycological benifit from them. That's fine, but lot's of great athletes feel that doing quality workouts vs some brick that scales back that quality, is the way to get faster. This is not to say this is an either/or issue, but to imply that doing bricks is the best way to improve your race speed, well there is just no evidence to support that...

There are lots of people that can get faster doing lots of different things, but the one constant I have seen in all the programs is beyond race pace training.....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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it seems to me that you could go one step further with "the constant". i haven't seen a (sensible and/or proven) training program for any endurance sport that doesn't mix in a beyond-race-pace workout, a longer race-pace-or-just-below workout and a notably longer endurance workout. you could do a lot worse for triathlon that just schedule 9 sessions, those 3 for each discipline, and forget anything else. bricks? i'm neutral. i think that non-elite athletes can gain quite a bit from the experiential side of them ("running on tired legs" blah blah blah), and its also a satisfying thing to watch your off-bike run pace slowly climb to get closer your standalone pace. but does it make you a faster runner? doesn't seem like the best way to approach that problem, certainly.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Curious about your opinion of this brick workout - don't think I've seen it on this thread yet - but was reading kinda lazy.

bike ~1 hr, like:
10 min spin w/u, 2x20 Z4, 5 min big gear cooldown - or- 30 minute Z4/Z5 over/under ride with warmup/cooldown, followed by,
400m @ 10k pace, then
4x800m @ Daniels I pace/800m recovery btwn
800m w/d

For me its ~1.5 hr brick. I like it for oly/sprint prep because you are running 800's at faster than race pace, but off a threshold bike so provides benefit of a longer quality sesion than one might usually get in single sport wkout. Added benefit of adapting to running fast off the bike. I did this last season as my only interval run workout, as the rest were threshold or lsd runs. I think I really adapted to doing fastest runs after a bike - so very sport specific benefit.

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [unclerock] [ In reply to ]
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Curious about your opinion of this brick workout -\\

I said this earlier, but the one brick I used to do with Jurgen, was a 4 hour ride, followed by 2k really fast on the track. Not a true brick in the sense I guess, but just like your workout, it incorporates faster than race pace running, so you can look at it from that perspective. I liked that workout, but we just did it once in a great while. So for a brick, I like your workout. I guess brick has come to mean a generic term, but it can be from A to Z in terms of actual effort. One that leans to faster than race pace for a short period of time, will be similar to a stand alone workout at that pace that was longer.....
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [unclerock] [ In reply to ]
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I'm training for a oly in september and a coach has a plan for me that has tempo runs (3 building to 8 miles) after my "long" bike ride (about 30 miles). Is that a good idea or is it too much considering I'm doing speed work during the week as well?
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Monty,

I've been following the "anti-brick" threads for a while, and I understand and get the point.
(I've taken to doing my tuesday run intervals in the am, and hard bike in the pm, instead of as a brick)

I'll say one thing however in favor of the now out-of-favor brick workout:

They are time-efficient.

IF all you were going to do was an easy run of X miles (say 2-6, whatever you like) for frequency, then doing it after the bike is very time-efficient.
You don't need to schedule a separate time for another workout, you are already dressed, sweaty, warmed up, etc.
Saves a lot of admin time and effort.

Naturally for a Pro/Elite-level athlete, maximizing the training gain from eack workout takes precedence.
For piker AG'ers like me, just getting the damn workout in and done is the priority.
If I don't do the brick run off the bike, I may not get to do it at all. A "sub-optimal" run workout is better than NO run workout.

So - bricks are a great way to build run volume thru frequency.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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So - bricks are a great way to build run volume thru frequency.

This is really the only reason that I do them. Agree with the sentiments that they are not that useful for developing speed. Running "off the bike" is really not that big a deal anymore that needs to be practiced. Usually a matter of having only x number of hours in a day to train and throwing a 30-50 minute run on top of my ride. Running an extra 10 plus miles a week is what makes a difference.

Long run and tempo run never done off the bike, seems like a way to ensure a low quality effort.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:



Long run and tempo run never done off the bike, seems like a way to ensure a low quality effort.

This has been a very good thread.......lots of good pros and cons.

I agree that volume and frequency are key and that is first for endurance sport. However I believe that doing long runs and tempo off the bike is very effective for the time constrained who don't have seven days to plan out all the workouts.

It seems many have the assumption that doing a "brick" means one is too destroyed to run an effective workout, say a track session at specific paces. Unless one does a 40k TT all out, then of course. But say prior to a track session, for the warm-up, one rides the TT bike at moderate effort for 10 miles, say slightly less than max aerobic. That should have no impact on the run workout. In fact, in my view it is the perfect warm-up for a triathlete. If one is impacted, then perhaps base endurance needs more work.

Look at what a runner does prior to a track session. Slow running, stretching, slow running. Maybe a drill or two. 30 minutes warm-up for sure in order not to get injured.

Dan Emfield always advocated this approach. To ride the bike to the track or before a run. Mike Pigg would bring his bike and trainer to the track. He was probably the greatest Olympic distance triathlete ever. There was no drafting back then and the bike courses were usually brutal. You needed to be an absulute bike killer with the ability to run after those efforts. Now, you have to swim good enough to get out of the water into the lead bike pack and then wait for the run. So of course Whitfield and the current ITU guys train accordingly.

But anyway, back to the thread.

Long runs can also be warmed-up in similar fashion. 10-20 miles on the TT bike at a reasonable effort then right into the long run fully warmed-up.

In actuality, when I think about it, I don't brick either. It takes a couple of minutes to put the bike away and drink and maybe eat something before I T-run. The only time I brick and transition to the run in as little time as possible is during a race.

I T-run.......but often
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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triathlon is one sport, not three

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [tri4balance] [ In reply to ]
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I would posit that they aren't running to their potential until they learn how to pace the bike, or improve their bike fitness to match the pace they do chose, rather than the bricks being the reason.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [ericreid421] [ In reply to ]
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I can't, for the life of me, figure out what kind of point you were trying to make.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that the best reason to do a brick w/o is to get your bike pace (power) dialed in so that you can run your race effectively. Otherwise, I find the transition is really only 5-10 minutes I could have spent running or riding more. Plus if I have to get back to house/car/track to run then I often have to cut my ride short and pick a less than ideal route. That all being said, riding my bike to the track at an easy pace instead of getting in my car is way cool.
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I have been doing "combo" workouts off and on for a while now. I loathe the word "brick" as it makes me think of a slow run after a slow bike.

The workouts go something like this..

warm up

10-15 min Z4+ effort on the bike, TT interval, faster than race pace, ending at the track or similar run path.

Transition to Run.

3-9 min run at faster than race pace get up to speed right away and hold it.

Followed by recovery of 5-10 min walk, hydrate, etc.

This is done 1-3 times

Cool down.

This was done quite a bit at the OTC, but is was on trainers at the track. The key is to do the set 2 or more times through to get the full benefit.

That being said, however, this is the only workout where I think it is a good idea to go right from bike to run.

If you want to work on your run and you need to "brick", then I think the run should be done first to keep good form, etc.

just my $.02 on the topic
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Re: New article on Brick workouts [siobhan] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm training for a oly in september and a coach has a plan for me that has tempo runs (3 building to 8 miles) after my "long" bike ride (about 30 miles). Is that a good idea or is it too much considering I'm doing speed work during the week as well?

I'd take most of the good advice that others on the thread have given, basically

1) Its an effective means to add run mileage for time constrained non-elite athletes (i.e. 99% of us)
2) Its effective for building endurance if that's a weakness
3) Good for beginner triathletes who may benefit from experience of running on tired legs
4) Can benefit about anyone if the run is relatively short and done at faster than race pace
5) Should NOT be done if it tires you out too much to complete your regular quality runs

I'm no coach, but if your long bike is 30 miles, then you probably would benefit in terms of building endurance, but maybe should wean yourself once your long ride is 60+ miles. I did almost identical workouts the first couple years of triathlon, and for Olympic racing (most of what I train for) still do an occaissional 50mi bike followed by 5-6 mile tempo run, but my "main" composite workout is now the Z4 bike followed by interval run workout I posted above. Hope this helps.

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug
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