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Official MIT information thread. The amazing MIT waterbottle pg. 2

 

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BMANX

Jan 15, 07 9:46

Post #1 of 115 (20440 views)
Official MIT information thread. The amazing MIT waterbottle pg. 2 Quote | Reply

After finally listening to the MIT pod cast, I have a lot of questions to ask and was hoping that this might lead into some great discussions. I also hope that someone from MIT would be able to answer (show pictures of some of the items that they have been testing if possible).

I would like to see some position pictures of the Team Time Trial. Also maybe some pictures of their bike set ups and actually pictures of the riders in their time trial position.

I would love to see the aerobars that have been mentioned in articles that they redesigned / made.

If possible, the new behind the stem aero drinking system that was mentioned in the pod cast. Mounts on the top tube and looks like a bullet? PICS PICS AND PICS

I can not believe that in the pod cast a bento box is more aero than not having one. Should I get one and use that as a way of storing my tube, CO2 and levers instead of my small bag under the seat.

Would it be more aero to use a upside down bottle on the seat tube and run a hose up to the aerobars or run an aerobar mounted drinking system. What would be more aero. More for Olympic distance and sprint.

And basically any other information that would help out us Slowtwitch people with our aero positions. I like the information that we get here from Dan and others but it would be great to have some more information from wind tunnel experience.

Thanks in advance.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

(This post was edited by Bman on Jan 23, 07 11:01)


BMANX

Jan 15, 07 16:26

Post #2 of 115 (20266 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I would also like to learn more about your findings in regards to aero helmets. I am wanting one for next year and am very interested in the Rudy Syton Open. Any thoughts on this helmet from MIT or anyone else.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


Sea Bass

Jan 15, 07 16:36

Post #3 of 115 (20246 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Do you happen to have a link to the MIT podcast you reference in your post?


BMANX

Jan 15, 07 16:46

Post #4 of 115 (20220 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Aerohead] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Yes. Sorry about that. I guess I should have included it in the original thread.

http://www.triathletemag.com/...dcast_Dec19_2006.mp3

It was very interesting to listen to this.

Bento Box more aero. Who would have thought it.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


chewgl

Jan 15, 07 16:57

Post #5 of 115 (20202 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Aerohead] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The Triathlete Magazine website seems down for now. I've mirrored the podcast here.

And yeah, I just started working with Mark in the wind tunnel last term. You can find a few pics of some of the MIT cycling team cyclists in their TT positions on the MIT cycling team website. http://www.mitcycling.org/Roster/2007/index.shtml (shameless plug for MIT cycling. q=) Check out Mark Cote and Jason Sears in their Cervelos (and me in my Giant; I just switched to a Cervelo too though). You might have to scroll to get more pics.

- Guo-Liang
chewgl@mit.edu
___________________________
Chewie
Slowtwitch Aeroweenie since '06


chewgl

Jan 15, 07 17:07

Post #6 of 115 (20168 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

On helmets, there isn't a universally good helmet for everyone. How good a helmet is for you really depends on how you sit on the bike; I have a rather flat back, and my LG Prologue helmet serves me well enough. Mark TTs with a "lumpy" back (a la Lance Armstrong), and the new Specialized helmet seems to work well for him.

Furthermore, how much of an impact a helmet has on your aerodynamics also depends on how big you are (relative to the helmet) too. Helmets work in two ways: they either get the air off your back (those with tails that stick out and up, like the LG Prologue), or help the air flow in a streamlined fashion on your back (those that blend into your back). Both work, but work to different degrees for different sized riders. We haven't quantified that yet, and might be doing more of that in the spring.

As for bento boxes, the air behind the stem is an aerodynamically messy place; I should think adding a bento box helps smooth the air somewhat. Mark's bottle works on the same principle, by having something just behind the stem to smoothen the air, whilst serving as a reservoir for fluids too.
___________________________
Chewie
Slowtwitch Aeroweenie since '06


Sea Bass

Jan 15, 07 17:10

Post #7 of 115 (20157 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [chewgl] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the link. What is up with the pic of the guy with his glasses upside down at the top of the MIT website? Upside down glasses must be more aerodynamic if an MIT student is doing it.


BMANX

Jan 15, 07 17:45

Post #8 of 115 (20110 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [chewgl] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I really like the Rudy Syton Open and have been looking for one for a while. Hard to get locally for some reason. I liked the pod cast and what was said about the age grouper still benefitting from using an aero helmet and after thinking about it for a long while, will pull the plug and get one this season. 4 times more aero than a standard helmet is worth $200 to me. Already have race wheels and everything that I could want for my bike so the last thing is an aero helmet and a lot more training. I think they mention that even tilting the back of the helmet up helped is some cases.

I still would love to see the custom aerobars from MIT and what was done to them.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


jeremyb

Jan 16, 07 17:40

Post #9 of 115 (19947 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

After listening to the podcast, it made me think about the un-aeroness of my shift cables coming out from the sides of my Shimano Ultegra STI's mounted on my Soloist.

I wonder what kind of drag these shift cables are producing? Compared to Campy Ergo levers...or Sram Force.


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


BMANX

Jan 16, 07 18:20

Post #10 of 115 (19901 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wonder what the drag numbers are for the Shimano shifters with Nokon's VS. standard cables. I just installed my Nokon's on my winter bike first to see how hard/easy it was to install them. Very simple and I am not sure why so many people say it is hard. Anyways, I would love to see the difference in Shimano normal, Shimano Nokon's, Campy Ergo and Sram. Would be interesting.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


jeremyb

Jan 17, 07 11:31

Post #11 of 115 (19774 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

And related to that how about the drag of conventional cork-like bar tape with something like Benotto or the smooth carbon type bar tape?

If you added up all these small gains, I wonder what kind of time savings you could come up with?


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


TriTalk

Jan 18, 07 9:14

Post #12 of 115 (19589 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was fortunate enough to be the one who interviewed Mark and produced the MIT wind tunnel podcast for Triathlete Magazine. Sorry I am a few days late contributing, but I thought I could answer some of the questions based on my time with Mark Cote at the tunnel. I had over 3 hours of audio I had to try and get down to 20 minutes, and there was lots more discussion on the very questions you have asked.

First, chewgl's comments on aero helmets in this thread are right on. Very perceptive.

On Mark's water bottle design, no pictures yet, but imagine a thin tapered cucumber.

Bento box! I saw the data with my own eyes. Cylinders are very, very bad, and the Bento box breaks up that cylinder. Mark's water bottle on the top tube does it even better.

On the cables question in the thread, yes, exposed cables, being cylinders, will increase drag significantly.

I will be taking the "unpublished" interview audio with Mark that covers some other facinating topics and put them in my podcast sometime this summer.

David Warden
Tri Talk Triathlon Podcast
http://www.tri-talk.com


jeremyb

Jan 18, 07 9:51

Post #13 of 115 (19513 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

@TriTalk: Summer?! Awww man youre killing me. Good podcast, cant wait to hear more.

Yeah I ended up picking up some Campy Record Ergo's for a good price and will now have the cables under the bar tape. Which will yield some very small drag decrease.

Also, Im working on a set of TT cranks a lot like Basso's last year.

As well as further tweaks to my aero position. I've found that doing yoga has really helped me to loosen up so that im able to get lower and more flexible on the bike.

jeremy


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


jeremyb

Jan 18, 07 9:56

Post #14 of 115 (19493 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Why not just zip tie an Arundel Chrono bottle to the top tube behind the stem?



In Reply To:


On Mark's water bottle design, no pictures yet, but imagine a thin tapered cucumber.

Bento box! I saw the data with my own eyes. Cylinders are very, very bad, and the Bento box breaks up that cylinder. Mark's water bottle on the top tube does it even better.


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


BMANX

Jan 18, 07 10:02

Post #15 of 115 (19478 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the update. I would love to hear more information in the future to your interview. I was thinking that since I am re-installing my cables with Nokon's that I will take a lot more care with them around the aerobar area and try to hide the housings as much as possible. The Hed Cliplites do not have internal cable routing but I can make that happen for the most part by drilling out the extensions to hide the housings.

As for the bento box, I have to eat a bit of crow with a friend as I have been bugging him for a year about his "lunch kit" on his bike. I am now thinking that I will use a bento box for storing my tube, CO2 and levers when racing. Every little bit of aerodynamics will help right.

The other questions that I have is in regards to the way that you have your stem. I run my level with 3 spacers and I have been thinking to have the stem angeled and remove 1 spacer. It will put the basebar in the exact same place but I wonder if one or the other is better.

Aero Helmet is on the way once I find a place locally to get a Rudy Syton Open. I like the simple design and look of this helmet. I might order one but my hat size is 38cm so I am right on the border of the S/M and L. I think that the small would still fit and I have to try one on.

Keep us updated as I would not mind listening to all of the audio that you have. I could listen to it on my long runs or on some rides.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

(This post was edited by Bman on Jan 18, 07 10:03)


Iron Buckeye

Jan 18, 07 10:09

Post #16 of 115 (19456 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I can't belive no one's mentioned Mark's "trimming the straw on your aero bottle" comment from the podcast. If you haven't listened to the podcast, that info alone was worth it. A classic.


duncan

Jan 18, 07 10:14

Post #17 of 115 (19440 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:

Bento box! I saw the data with my own eyes. Cylinders are very, very bad, and the Bento box breaks up that cylinder. Mark's water bottle on the top tube does it even better.


Or use integrated VisionTechs with the aero stem?




Lookout

Jan 18, 07 10:27

Post #18 of 115 (19402 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I like how he says wearing gloves will slow you done. cover all your bases.


chicanery

Jan 18, 07 10:37

Post #19 of 115 (19377 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
As for the bento box, I have to eat a bit of crow with a friend as I have been bugging him for a year about his "lunch kit" on his bike. I am now thinking that I will use a bento box for storing my tube, CO2 and levers when racing. Every little bit of aerodynamics will help right.




Try fastening the bento-box behind your seat post. I have had VERY good luck with this method. All3Sports has a really nice bento-look-alike that is pretty narrow but longer than the normal bento.

Chris


BMANX

Jan 18, 07 11:06

Post #20 of 115 (19332 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Lookout] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I do not wear gloves while racing anyways. Just a waste of time to put them on.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


BMANX

Jan 18, 07 11:08

Post #21 of 115 (19328 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [chicanery] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

fastening it there will not give me the aero advantages that you get when it is behind your stem.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.


chicanery

Jan 18, 07 11:21

Post #22 of 115 (19297 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Depends on if you could find a wedge shaped bag that would fill the gap between your seatpost and the rear-bottle holder. I haven't personally seen anything, but I haven't looked for that specific size/style, so they could definitely be out there.

Chris


Andrew Coggan

Jan 18, 07 11:25

Post #23 of 115 (19278 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [duncan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
Or use integrated VisionTechs with the aero stem?

The Hooker stem (or integrated aerobars) was even better.


jeremyb

Jan 18, 07 12:47

Post #24 of 115 (19216 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Or use integrated VisionTechs with the aero stem?

The Hooker stem (or integrated aerobars) was even better.
Any pictures of the Hooker stem, Andrew?


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


jeremyb

Jan 18, 07 14:57

Post #25 of 115 (19120 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wonder if the Bento Box measurements were taken with a rider onboard?


In Reply To:


On Mark's water bottle design, no pictures yet, but imagine a thin tapered cucumber.

Bento box! I saw the data with my own eyes. Cylinders are very, very bad, and the Bento box breaks up that cylinder. Mark's water bottle on the top tube does it even better.


+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow


(This post was edited by jeremyb on Jan 18, 07 20:02)

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Ironman prize money
In the wake of the infamous 7th place prize money bonus at IMLP, where do you stand on Ironman's prize money? Is Ironman a penny pincher? Is the lack of a pro outcry the pros' own fault? Or is there no problem and the money is correct now?
Ironman should up prize money
Pros at fault for their timidity
The money is appropriate now