clinchers are usually faster for triathlon purposes, and the flat repair kit is smaller.

The world time trial champion has been on clinchers 3 years running

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

But it's for a hilly course. Which will work better, road or tri frame?

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IG: idking90

If it is Savageman, I will allow tubulars, but you still have to use a TT bike =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Trispoke + disc and always tubs.

I like the sound of this...but why tubs?

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http://RoadID.com/...te/4HC4V-TAFQ9XPJDTX

Tubs ride better, are (generally) lighter and for the most part are faster than clinchers (especially when properly glued). Plus you can ride them when they've flatted and they're way faster to change. All the perceived downsides to tubs and the 'clinchers are faster' arguments are from people who don't ride tubs because they're either scared or lazy.

I ride tubies sometimes Grill, Tony Martin rides tubies sometimes Grill.

rolling resistance data on tubies and clinchers is widely available from multiple sources indicating that tubies don't ride better or have better rolling resistance. Most of the time you end up with a better overall aerodynamic shape with clinchers. (which is why 4 world time trial podiums in the last 3 years have used clinchers)

Add in the fact that carrying a spare tubie in a triathlon negates much of the weight advantage of adds aero drag, and clinchers are usually the faster setup for triathlon.


Put a good tire on a clincher, with a latex tube, and you get that same tubie ride quality you are used to.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Rubbish. Tony Martin would have won on CX tires. Also, sponsored athletes generally use what their sponsors tell them, especially at WT level. He was more than happy ride tubs at this years TdF.

As I said, rolling resistance with tubs depends heavily on how well they're glued and aerodynamics depends entirely on your wheel/tire combo (being able to run 10 bar helps too on a smooth course).

I don't do tris, but I do long TTs (100 mile, 12hr, 24hr) and haven't had any issue. I don't really see how a properly packed tube will have a detrimental aero effect, and the extra weight is laughable when you consider how much more clincher wheels weigh (My disc and trispoke weigh 200g more than just a Flo disc). For punctures, just use sealant if you're worried.

Doesn't it make sense, then, to use clinchers and latex tubes to eliminate this variable in order to get as-good-or-better rolling resistance?

It's not difficult to properly glue a tubular, but if you mount it wonky or use minimal glue then yes, there will be a slight penalty. Keep in mind we're talking about tiny numbers that won't make a lick of difference to 99.9% of us here. The lighter wheels will have far more impact, especially on a hilly course.

I'm a tubie user too, mainly because I like the fact that I get less flats on them.
I do wonder though, what the difference in rolling resistance (and thus time savings) is between a properly glued tubie, and one that just has a small amount of glue (like half a tube of glue at most).
At the Tremblant 70.3 in June, I was getting my bike ready the day before, and while pumping the disc up, there was something wrong with the valve. Anyway, gave up and decided to change the tire, didn't want to risk having it go flat on race day. So I go to remove the tubie, and wouldn't you know it, I must have had it glued properly, because it took me 10+ minutes to get that f*cker off the rim....lol. When I put the replacement tire on, I literally just put a couple of drops of new glue around the rim before mounting it, as I didn't want it on there as hard as the first tire. Since then, I haven't reglued it, just left the replacement tire very lightly glued....
I really like the idea of clinchers, pretty easy to get on and off, thus easy to put new tires on for race day, cheaper, supposedly faster, but I can't seem to get past the fact that any time I've tried them, I get flats more often... :(

Source: http://[#7a7a7a]http://runblackdog.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/tubulars-vs-clinchers-2/

Vittoria Corsa CX II Tubular (properly glued) – Crr = 0.00254, Watts = 12.5
Vittoria Corsa CX II Tubular (lightly glued) – Crr = 0.00294, Watts = 14.4

Cool,thx!
Calling Jackmott, will 1.9 watts keep me from Kona?? :)

Tony had two different sponsors tell him to ride clinchers for flat TTs, there is a reason for that.

And Taylor Phinney ran a clincher front, tubie rear, when he got 2nd at worlds, there is a reason for that too!

We are all well aware here of the importance of proper gluing for tubie rolling resistance, which is one of the problems in a triathlon application. For tubies to get the same rolling resistance as clinchers, you have to glue them in a such a way that removing them if you flat is difficult.

One example on weight:
difference between zipp 404 clinchers and zipp 404 tubulars is 240 grams

weight of Vittoria evo CX tubular is 245 grams

weight savings gone.

not that weight on the order of 200 grams has any substantive effect on 90% of triathlon course times anyway.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Would you like to do the math with us on that?
What course would you like to use as an example?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

and you can see here, that the Vittoria Corsa clincher with latex tube did even better than the tubular:

http://www.biketechreview.com/...ire_testing_rev9.pdf

and yes, AFM properly glues the tubies

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

What Jack said. 1 addition, unless all the race(s) you doing are hill climbs aero trumps weight. Get the most aero clincher set up you can.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

If you plan to carry a spare
with a clincher you carry a ~70 gram tube, tire lever, co2 and inflater

with a tubie you carry a ~240 gram tire, razor blade, co2, and inflater

If you do not plan to carry a spare, then yes, you can save 200 to 400 grams by using tubies, which would be a worthwhile thing to do at savageman, and maybe ironman france.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I don't know any of your courses, so I'm not sure what sort of math you'd like me to do. I do know that my wheels are a good 500g lighter than most clincher combos and I certainly notice the difference when I'm out training on wheels that are less than 200g heavier.

Look at it this way; why would Pro Tour riders opt for Lightweight Autobahns over the arguably more aero Pro and Campy discs?

Considering most people's positions, this won't make a lick of difference. What do you suppose the difference in drag is between the CXR80 clincher and tubular?

You will notice I haven't been advocating clinchers for pro tour road stages. Many road races have the critical moments on climbs, and you absolutely want to be at the UCI minimum weight for that reason, and usually you need tubulars to achieve that.

for time trials/triathlon your time is a sum of every moment on the course, where you are never drafting, and courses generaly don't even have big climbs.

as such weight has an amazingly small impact, even though you can 'feel' the difference.

You can use tools like best bike split to run the numbers on whatever courses you do:

http://www.bestbikesplit.com

You can see some sample analysis here:
http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...eight-follow-up.html

For example at Ironman CdA, which is hilly, 1,100 grams weight savings saves 1 minute 42 seconds.

So that would be about ~45 seconds savings with 500 grams lighter wheels, which is maybe worth it if you are contending for an age group win or KQ for sure. But, only if you can get CRR and aero as good as the best clinchers, which can be hard.

At Ironman Florida the time savings of 1,100 grams is just 2 seconds!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Because they don't spend much time at analyticcyling.com.

I can save you some time. This point has been debated ad nauseum before. Once actual math enters the discussion, the lighter-is-better side loses. Every time. I like light wheels too. They're still slower than aero

Edit: Jackmott, I'm amazed that you still answer this one every time. That's a work ethic

The CXR80 does not exist in clincher form.

Since the rider's position and wheels don't have much interaction, a second saved due to tire aerodynamics is a second saved whether you have a great position, or a terrible one.

Tire can affect wheel aerodynamics a great deal, two examples:
http://aeroweenie.com/...g/data/flo-tires.png

http://www.swissside.com/1429

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter