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what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run?
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Everyone has a story so im curious. What are some of the things you specifically worked on to increase your HIM speed that DID NOT include better swim/bike pacing. What were your key workouts? tempo? long slow runs? speed work? just more miles? Bricks off of long rides at goal pace?
Come at me 'twitchers
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Changing my intervals from short (400/800m) up to 1 mile, building up to 8 to 10 a couple of weeks out from the race.

Went from 1.40 something to low 1.20s. Horrendous when you're in the middle of a set, but such good results.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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I went from doing typical 3x per week run training, to include a long run, to running 4-5x per week with mostly medium and long runs.

For me a medium training run for 70.3 purposes is 6-8 miles, and a long is 9-11 miles.

Couldn't give two shits about pacing. Almost all my runs were done at Z1/Z2.

2017 Races:
Texas 70.3 April 2nd | Canada 70.3 July 30th | Augusta 70.3 September 24th | New Orleans 70.3 October 22nd | Cartagena 70.3 December 3rd
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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I started running slower in training which allowed me to run more week and week out. Mostly slow/easy pace (8 min/mile) with 1-2 run's with some tempo work in there at goal pace or slightly above.

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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [oakie] [ In reply to ]
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oakie wrote:
Changing my intervals from short (400/800m) up to 1 mile, building up to 8 to 10 a couple of weeks out from the race.

Went from 1.40 something to low 1.20s. Horrendous when you're in the middle of a set, but such good results.

Curious what the pacing and rest is for these intervals. 10k or open HM pace? 1/4 mile jog recoveries?

I have yet to have what I'd call a good 70.3 run based on what I feel I should be able to run. I'm around 8 min difference between my open half times and my 70.3 runs - goal for the season is to try getting that down to a 5-6 min difference.


Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Mine are done at around threshold pace, according to Jack Daniels run calculator, rest is 90 seconds static.

If you're not fading in last one up the pace, and build up from 2 of 3 to start with, as your condition and fitness improves, you should find it easier to add an extra interval.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Used Daniels Marathon A, 24 week plan (just about verbatim) at 35 to 45 miles per week. I took 5 minutes off a good HIM run and was only 2 min slower than my open Half PB.

I went into the plan in good shape, it's not a couch to marathon plan. I had been running 35 -45 miles per week for at least 16 weeks before that as well.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Start with the differential between your stand-alone 1/2 marathon and what your run split is in a 70.3. What is that time difference.

This will reveal certain things, and give you some stuff to focus on.

A common mistake with triathletes and running is always looking too long in both training and racing performance for running. I know this is hard to believe for many, but 5k run performance is the ground foundation for ALL running performance at longer distances. Improve your 5K race times, and all-things-considered, ALL race performances at longer distances, should be faster. But few triathletes seem to understand this, or practice and refine this.

It's why there is ALWAYS great opportunities on the run in big and competitive triathlons of all distances - few are actually running really well. Even small percentages of gains in triathlon run race speed, can yield BIG improvments in place performance!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck-

I agree with you. But what type of workouts would you use to get your 5k speed higher?
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [trimac2] [ In reply to ]
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What I say here depends on what your run raining and performance are like now.

The bad news is that many triathletes have a very weak true running base fitness. The good news is the solution, depending on back ground is very easy - run a bit more, but run a bit more in the RIGHT way.

For most that means doing a block of training where you run almost every day of the week, utilizing what around here is commonly referred to as the BarryP formula, although, I have been a big advocate for this as well for a long time.

If you do have that classic weak running base. If you follow the higher frequency formula of running 5 - 7 days/week for a couple of months, the right way, and then taper, for a week, almost everyone that does this, records a 5k or 10K PB at the end of it. They'e done no fancy training. No higher level interval workouts - they have just got out and got in a run of at least 20 minutes almost every day of the week. Some runs a are a little faster, some a little slower. Just run based on feel. Run hard enough that you will be able to run the next day, and the next day and the . . . . you get the picture.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Ok for those with a good run base?
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Losing weight.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [trimac2] [ In reply to ]
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Ok for those with a good run base?

Possibly.

Many/Most triathletes grossly underestimate their run fitness.

So, I'm making a generalization here, but most would benefit from this.

The questions are, where are you know, and where do you want to go? No matter where you are, you can always make the run base deeper and broader, which is never a bad thing.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Mar 6, 17 7:34
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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1. Learning to pace correctly on the bike

2. Training for a 140.6. My 70.3 PR came 6-8 weeks prior to my IM. I had done bricks as long as 70+15 at that point.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Here are my thoughts.

First, you have to stay healthy all the time.

As posted, unless one is, and stays are REAL race weight, one really is not serious!!! How many fast runners are not at real running race weight!
If you do not look like a stick, well.

Does one run 12 months a year?

Running hills for strength 3 days a week all year long I believe is big.

Running bricks right off of my bike onto the treadmill has helped.

Yep, I still believe in using my powercranks, and the bionic runner has not hurt me either.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I ran 2502 miles last year so not sure if this counts as a deep base or not. I have time to bump this mileage up but any benefit to running 60mpw vs 50mpw when its mostly just base running?
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [trimac2] [ In reply to ]
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How long have been averaging 50 mpw of running? I would say that for most triathletes, if you have done that for a whole year, then I would say you already have a pretty decent base of running.

How old are you and what sort of times are you recording for stand-alone races 5k/10K/half-marathon? What is your best 70.3 half marathon run split?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
How long have been averaging 50 mpw of running? I would say that for most triathletes, if you have done that for a whole year, then I would say you already have a pretty decent base of running.

How old are you and what sort of times are you recording for stand-alone races 5k/10K/half-marathon? What is your best 70.3 half marathon run split?

First question should be what is his BMI

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Fleck wrote:
How long have been averaging 50 mpw of running? I would say that for most triathletes, if you have done that for a whole year, then I would say you already have a pretty decent base of running.

How old are you and what sort of times are you recording for stand-alone races 5k/10K/half-marathon? What is your best 70.3 half marathon run split?


First question should be what is his BMI


Unless you've done some accurate testing, basic BMI #'s can be way off. Look at a guy like Chris Solinsky - built much differently than the average runner, and his BMI is probably not that of the typical runner, but an amazing runner. It's not a be-all, end-all. Race performances can tell a lot as well.

I have to also echo what's pretty much been said by several folks - consistency is the number one determinant for running success in longer distance events. 5, 6, 7 days a week of running over years will give you 90% of what gets you there. The speedwork and long runs become the icing on the cake.


Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Last edited by: natethomas: Mar 6, 17 8:22
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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running more, biking 90km slightly easier and smarterer

coates_hbk wrote:
Everyone has a story so im curious. What are some of the things you specifically worked on to increase your HIM speed that DID NOT include better swim/bike pacing. What were your key workouts? tempo? long slow runs? speed work? just more miles? Bricks off of long rides at goal pace?
Come at me 'twitchers

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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I've been in the 45-50mpw for a few years. I'm 39 but I haven't ran a open running race in a long time. My PBs was 3 years ago....2:57 marathon, 1:23 HM, 17:55 5K. However, my PB's in HIM and IM came this year....1:30 run in HIM, and 3:30 marathon.

I don't really look at BMI but I have some weight to lose. Last year I raced around 185-187lbs at 6'2". I'm pretty lean muscle wise though.
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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natethomas wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Fleck wrote:
How long have been averaging 50 mpw of running? I would say that for most triathletes, if you have done that for a whole year, then I would say you already have a pretty decent base of running.

How old are you and what sort of times are you recording for stand-alone races 5k/10K/half-marathon? What is your best 70.3 half marathon run split?


First question should be what is his BMI


Unless you've done some accurate testing, basic BMI #'s can be way off. Look at a guy like Chris Solinsky - built much differently than the average runner, and his BMI is probably not that of the typical runner, but an amazing runner. It's not a be-all, end-all. Race performances can tell a lot as well.

I have to also echo what's pretty much been said by several folks - consistency is the number one determinant for running success in longer distance events. 5, 6, 7 days a week of running over years will give you 90% of what gets you there. The speedwork and long runs become the icing on the cake.

Never said it was the end all. But most folks are just too heavy, or do you disagree?

Basics to get better. Consistency, frequency, duration, in that order

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [trimac2] [ In reply to ]
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trimac2 wrote:
I've been in the 45-50mpw for a few years. I'm 39 but I haven't ran a open running race in a long time. My PBs was 3 years ago....2:57 marathon, 1:23 HM, 17:55 5K. However, my PB's in HIM and IM came this year....1:30 run in HIM, and 3:30 marathon.

I don't really look at BMI but I have some weight to lose. Last year I raced around 185-187lbs at 6'2". I'm pretty lean muscle wise though.

I am 6'5", 160 lbs.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Fleck wrote:
How long have been averaging 50 mpw of running? I would say that for most triathletes, if you have done that for a whole year, then I would say you already have a pretty decent base of running.

How old are you and what sort of times are you recording for stand-alone races 5k/10K/half-marathon? What is your best 70.3 half marathon run split?

First question should be what is his BMI

My BMI is 24 - 24.5 - does that mean im screwed?
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Re: what made the biggest difference in improving your 70.3 run? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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And Matt Russell is 5'11" and 170lbs. He's one of the best triathletes out there. Weight doesn't tell the whole picture.
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