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upgrades for first full distance ironman next year
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my triathlon history.

I'm in my third year of triathlon.
1st year - 3 sprints. 1 Olympic
2nd year - 1 Olympic. 2 HIM
This year - 1 off-road triathlon (done). 2-3 sprint triathlons. 1 Olympic 1 HIM.
Next year's plan. HIM. Full Ironman in fall.

I'm looking at some aero improvements for the cycling leg so I just curious where my money is best spent. I don't have a set budget but I'd like to keep it under $1000 if possible.

My current cycling equipment.
Cervelo P2. Stock everything other than saddle and tires.
Lazer Z1 Helmet.

These are the upgrades I'm considering.
Power meter
Aero Helmet
Front-aero wheel (I read a front-aero wheel makes the most difference)

I was thinking of the garmin vector 2s. I have a road bike too so I'd like to be able to switch between the two.
Helmet I'm considering the POC Sports. Lazer Wasp Air. S-Works-Evade. POC Octal Aero.
- I could also add the Aeroshell to my Lazer Z1 helmet but I can't imagine even with that it would compare to the other aero helmets
front aero wheel (if budget allows) probably flo 60. need to research others.

Should I not get a power meter and just upgrade my helmet and wheels? Other suggestions are welcome.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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PMs are great, but unless you have a coach or are willing to commit to a plan, they're just glorified computers.

Assuming you have a good fit, you could get a Flo 60, aerojacket disc cover ($90) and an aero helmet for way less than your budget. You could probably even find a used powertap hub wheel (train on it and cover with aerojacket for races) and get everything for pretty close to $1K I would think.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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You planning on a 9 hour finish and a KQ?

If not, skip the equipment. The important things are: Train correctly. Get a coach. Get a bike fit.

Difference between a road helmet and a Giro Advantage is about 3 minutes over IM distance. Differences between aluminum wheels and 404/808 combo is about 5 minutes. Aero frame again about 5 minutes. Some say up to 10. Those improvements make a big difference to those looking to win, but does it make any difference if you are looking to finish in 10-11 hours? Your first IM in which you'll probably blow and end up walking. :)

Get the low hanging fruit first. Your position on the bike is most of it, as well as not overbiking so you don't end up walking the marathon. For your 1st IM get a bike fit with emphasis on comfort first, performance second. You don't want to ride for 5.5-6 hours on an ill fitting bike and then have to run a marathon.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I would add a disc cover for the rear wheel. They are inexpensive and provide a decent time savings. Aerojacket is very popular from Wheelbuilder and Catalyst now offers a carbon fiber cover.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
Last edited by: vinny311: Apr 29, 16 11:04
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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PM has been my single best investment to date. That plus TrainerRoad. Get one, get on a structured training plan, and get your FTP up. For me it was a game changer, far beyond any other upgrades I've done.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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The PM won't make you faster on race day unless you train correctly with it before the race. As far as speed improvement on race day, I would go with a set of Flo wheels and an aero helmet. You could get two Flo wheels and a decent helmet for very close to your budget, and both will make you faster on race day.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I would go with a power meter. When you are just starting out the biggest gains you will ever see come from training smartly and effectively. Nothing will help you more during training than having a good training plan and having the ability to measure performance during training and racing. I race in a stock cervelo P2, and have focused my investments on training and maximizing my engine. It would be great to be able to have everything however budget doesn't always allow it. The gains ive seen from having a coach and training properly with the right equipment are far greater than any gains I would have gotten from a new helmet or race wheels. Don't get me wrong, id love to have all the best equipment, but if I had to choose again I would still choose investments in maximizing my engine and training vs paying for "free speed".

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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wcb wrote:
PM has been my single best investment to date. That plus TrainerRoad. Get one, get on a structured training plan, and get your FTP up. For me it was a game changer, far beyond any other upgrades I've done.

I do use trainerroad and am going to follow one of their plans for my HIM this year.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
You planning on a 9 hour finish and a KQ?

If not, skip the equipment. The important things are: Train correctly. Get a coach. Get a bike fit.

Difference between a road helmet and a Giro Advantage is about 3 minutes over IM distance. Differences between aluminum wheels and 404/808 combo is about 5 minutes. Aero frame again about 5 minutes. Some say up to 10. Those improvements make a big difference to those looking to win, but does it make any difference if you are looking to finish in 10-11 hours? Your first IM in which you'll probably blow and end up walking. :)

Get the low hanging fruit first. Your position on the bike is most of it, as well as not overbiking so you don't end up walking the marathon. For your 1st IM get a bike fit with emphasis on comfort first, performance second. You don't want to ride for 5.5-6 hours on an ill fitting bike and then have to run a marathon.

I'm pretty certain I won't be making it to Kona. You just blew my semblance of a budget with "get a coach" lol Fortunately, I did get a bike fit when purchased the P2 and I have been really comfortable on the bike when training and in both HIMs I have done. So far my pacing has been pretty good on the bike and I've been able to be okay on the run. Obviously, IM is a much bigger challenge.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I have nearly the same list and I am thinking about my first IM fall of 2017 as well. Your list matches most of what I have found a handy table on Cyclingtips. The nut is that an aero helmet will give you similar gains as a pair of wheels at a fraction of the cost.

I would get power next. That is next on my list. As a few noted, you must train to power so that you ride smart to power in the race. But, you do not need a coach to get there. There is more than enough information available through great books and this forum to manage your own training plan. Simply knowing your power during training probably gets you 80% of the benefits of riding to power on race day. A coach decision is the same incremental price/performance decision as the other items.

Regarding which power meter, read DCRainmaker's reviews. He is advising against the Garmins due to price and better choices. His favorite is the Powertap P1 pedal set, and it is tough to fault his logic. The other option I like is the Watteam Powerbeat, once they figure out their problems. At 1/2 price, the Powerbeat is very appealing as a starter kit for a year or two, as the pedal options get more competitive and prices fall further.

As for helmet, I am in love with the Bell Javelin. The tough part about choosing a helmet is that the choice depends on the individual. So, unless you can do a wind test, you have to choose based on what you think will be best for you. Helmets like the Kask Bambino seem to offer great performance for a wide variety of riders, but that comes at a massive price premium. At $100 on Amazon, the Javelin is another that performs well for a broad variety of people, but it is so cheap that the performance risk is low if you guess wrong. For me, it is impossible to justify a lot of incremental spend over a Javelin for a unknown incremental performance gain.


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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
I have nearly the same list and I am thinking about my first IM fall of 2017 as well. Your list matches most of what I have found a handy table on Cyclingtips. The nut is that an aero helmet will give you similar gains as a pair of wheels at a fraction of the cost.

I would get power next. That is next on my list. As a few noted, you must train to power so that you ride smart to power in the race. But, you do not need a coach to get there. There is more than enough information available through great books and this forum to manage your own training plan. Simply knowing your power during training probably gets you 80% of the benefits of riding to power on race day. A coach decision is the same incremental price/performance decision as the other items.

Regarding which power meter, read DCRainmaker's reviews. He is advising against the Garmins due to price and better choices. His favorite is the Powertap P1 pedal set, and it is tough to fault his logic. The other option I like is the Watteam Powerbeat, once they figure out their problems. At 1/2 price, the Powerbeat is very appealing as a starter kit for a year or two, as the pedal options get more competitive and prices fall further.

As for helmet, I am in love with the Bell Javelin. The tough part about choosing a helmet is that the choice depends on the individual. So, unless you can do a wind test, you have to choose based on what you think will be best for you. Helmets like the Kask Bambino seem to offer great performance for a wide variety of riders, but that comes at a massive price premium. At $100 on Amazon, the Javelin is another that performs well for a broad variety of people, but it is so cheap that the performance risk is low if you guess wrong. For me, it is impossible to justify a lot of incremental spend over a Javelin for a unknown incremental performance gain.


I hadn't really thought about the bell javelin but I that price point it's very attractive. If I get a power meter it will be towards the end of the year so I was hoping the garmin vector 2s would have a sale or price drop again. The watteam I've read about but I'd have to change my crank arm and the pedals are preferred so I can switch between my triathlon and road bikes. Thanks for the chart
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot to add that I also plan to get a good short sleeve skinsuit for my 2017 races. This is high on the list for 2 big reasons:
  1. It will make me faster on the bike
  2. It will eliminate sunburn from my shoulders and make sunscreen application in transition a little bit easier (I got fried in NOLA)

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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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If can get coaching for around your budget for the year, nothing else will give you more for the money. Not only will your fitness increase enormously, you'll learn a huge amount from the process. I know I did. Once that's in hand, worry about the equipment. Enjoy - it's a challenging way to spend a year of your life, but for me at least, hugely worthwhile.

----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty certain I won't be making it to Kona.

If you're not trying to get to Kona, why do you need a coach?

Why not get a PM, train consistently for a few years with what you have and then look to improve if you still have the desire.

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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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I would prioritize the PM first. It allows a completely different and more effective way of training, and much better pacing for races. If you want something reliable and easy to switch between bikes, get the P1 pedals. That's basically your entire budget though. For something cheaper, a crank-based meter like the Power2Max or Powertap C1 would be very reliable (but less easy to move between bikes). Or maybe a Watteam Powerbeat which would be easier to move.

On the aero upgrades I'd take whatever you have left and put it into the aero helmet and a disc cover. Check compatibility with your bike and wheels; I don't think the Aerojacket will work with the stock Shimano wheels on a P2. If you upgraded the rear to a Flo 30 or 60 you could put a cover on that, but it might put you over your budget.

I would prioritize the front wheel below the helmet and disc cover. You don't want to ride a deeper front wheel than rear for handling reasons. And you'd be getting into the realm where you're spending several hundred more to save maybe a minute or two in an IM.

You might also look at an aero top or suit. Something like the LG M2 suit, or Castelli T1 Stealth top.
Last edited by: mike_w: Apr 29, 16 16:02
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I'm pretty certain I won't be making it to Kona.

If you're not trying to get to Kona, why do you need a coach?

Why not get a PM, train consistently for a few years with what you have and then look to improve if you still have the desire.

You misread. Somebody else mentioned a coach. This year I'm going to get more focused in my workouts. I followed plans before It was more volume rather than some focused workouts
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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1) used wired powertap wheel < $300.
2) disc cover < $100

Power meter will help your training all year and during the race. If you have a plan to follow and power to follow it with, it is the next best thing to having a coach.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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Similar to you, I just completed 4th full year of triathlon....mostly OLY distance on my P4. Did my first HIM and IM (AZ) last year and did well in both events. I don't use a PM....prefer to invest budget in items that will definitely make the bike faster....wheels, good tires, helmet. For around your budget, my recommendation would definitely be wheels (FLO's are always recommended here for on a budget good choice) and a good helmet. I use the LG P09 which can now be had for under $200. Wheels and helmet are my recommendation.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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Personally, given the choice of some professional coaching and a powermeter, I would take the former any day of the week. I love training with power as much as the next guy, but the longer the race the less it matters. In a short time trial or olympic course where you are riding close to your max FTP it is downright essential, but it is by no means imperative to pace a 112 mile ride. If you do want a power meter without blowing your budget, the Stages left leg units can be had new for $530 and will get the job done nicely.

In terms of your biggest aero savings, thankfully, they are relatively inexpensive.
1.) Position / Fit: You mention you had a fit when you got your P2. Was this an actual fit, e.g. Retul, Body Geometry, etc...or was it just a salesman setting your saddle height on the shop floor? In the event of the latter, pay for a fit from a reputable shop to ensure you are in the most powerful, comfortable, and aero position.

2.) Clothes / Helmet: As others have mentioned, your body counts for 80% of the drag on the bike, so you can save some serious watts just by getting a speed suit and an aero helmet. Helmets can be pricey, but you can typically find them on deep discount online if you look hard enough. I just bought a $375 Louis Garneau P-09 helmet for $150. Same thing with the tri suits. Short sleeves will be faster than sleeveless, but may get in the way of your swim. Castelli makes an aero jersey meant to be worn only on the bike called the Stealth T1 that claims to cut minutes off of an IM bike leg. Figure another $200-$250 for your suit.

3.) Wheels: Given your budget, the wheel builder disc cover might be a great option for your rear wheel, but that would depend on how much wind you will face. Alternatively, I'm sure you could find an older pair of Zipp or HED wheels for around $800 that would work fine. If possible, spend the extra money to get one of the wider rim models...it makes a huge difference in ride quality since you have more rubber on the road and can run lower pressures.

Good Luck!
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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Just going through the switchable power-meter myself, and depending on your bike, there are plenty of crank based options that are just as easy to switch between bikes as a set of pedals, or if not *just* as easy, easy enough. I guess a benefit to pedals is if you don't want the same crank length on both... That would certainly matter...

But the price of the crank based systems is certainly enticing.

You said P2, which is BBRight, and depending on the other bike, cranks could be an easy switch. But pedals are easy too.

Matt
Last edited by: Emma'sDad: Apr 30, 16 5:03
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [pvl000] [ In reply to ]
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pvl000 wrote:
1) used wired powertap wheel < $300.
2) disc cover < $100

Power meter will help your training all year and during the race. If you have a plan to follow and power to follow it with, it is the next best thing to having a coach.

Heck, you can probably find a wireless Powertap for $200 or less these days. Got one for $115 last fall that works great.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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What would you upgrade for your next sprint, Olympic or 70.3?

Buy that.
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
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aero wheels will make the biggest difference, aero helmet a small difference.

TriTamp wrote:
my triathlon history.

I'm in my third year of triathlon.
1st year - 3 sprints. 1 Olympic
2nd year - 1 Olympic. 2 HIM
This year - 1 off-road triathlon (done). 2-3 sprint triathlons. 1 Olympic 1 HIM.
Next year's plan. HIM. Full Ironman in fall.

I'm looking at some aero improvements for the cycling leg so I just curious where my money is best spent. I don't have a set budget but I'd like to keep it under $1000 if possible.

My current cycling equipment.
Cervelo P2. Stock everything other than saddle and tires.
Lazer Z1 Helmet.

These are the upgrades I'm considering.
Power meter
Aero Helmet
Front-aero wheel (I read a front-aero wheel makes the most difference)

I was thinking of the garmin vector 2s. I have a road bike too so I'd like to be able to switch between the two.
Helmet I'm considering the POC Sports. Lazer Wasp Air. S-Works-Evade. POC Octal Aero.
- I could also add the Aeroshell to my Lazer Z1 helmet but I can't imagine even with that it would compare to the other aero helmets
front aero wheel (if budget allows) probably flo 60. need to research others.

Should I not get a power meter and just upgrade my helmet and wheels? Other suggestions are welcome.

res, non verba
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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Probably a helmet
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Re: upgrades for first full distance ironman next year [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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Fit was retul fit. Not a super aggressive position but I'm hesitant to change it since I'm comfortable on my bike. I have some time to think through things. I'm not making any big purchases until the end of the year
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