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updated: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle
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[this is a work in progress. there are posts further down with developments]


Got a 68oz insulated stainless steel bottle to go between the arms (bta). Was doing a back to back 23oz bottle set up like Rinny and some others are doing. So why do the below set up?
  1. The below bottle is 3 inches shorter than the double 23oz bottle set up.
  2. It provides the equivalent of three 23oz bottles of fluid.
  3. I didn't want a third non-aero bottle behind the saddle.
  4. I don't like depending on volunteers who can either be out of fluids, or perform poor water bottle hand-offs.
  5. I want to have cold fluid the entire 56 mile bike portion of a 70.3 race
  6. I want my own fluids: EFS Pro
  7. Last, I don't want to have to refill my bottle in the middle of a race.


Here's the bottle I ended up going with: https://www.amazon.com/...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Great quality and great price. I'm tempted to get another one for coffee - just for the absurdity of showing up to my office with a coffee mug that is 14.75" tall.
Drilled hole in bottle large enough to accept straw.
bottle will be easy to clean out with a bottle brush. I can remove the straw, and place a cork in the hole for transport and the bottle comes with an insulated carrying case - nice for race morning.


Filled the space between the layers of steel with DAP marine food safe adhesive (scratches are from me beginning to clamp the layers together to then weld them - canned that idea but scratched the clear coat in the process, oh well)



Used Profile Design straw, but may replace with something less porous - it stains from drink mix easily. added garmin rubber band to keep straw stable. Cut up a carbon sworks ribcage for the rear and used garmin rubber bands to hold rear in place, and used the below garmin mount to keep front in place. It's locked down tight - no movement or noise.


Computer mounted. can see that the rear ends before the rear of the stem, so no issue with leg clearance, which was a slight issue with the double 23oz bottle setup when turning or just correcting while steering - that's not an issue with this set up.


Front view - sits low. cat was determined to be the photo


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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jul 2, 17 10:15
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Re: Completed: 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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final two images

Feels comfortable between the arms


Side view - 3 bottles (capacity) never looked so clean and aero (highly subjective eyeball windtunnel)
Tilted bottle forward on purpose so that fluid is always in contact with the straw - the straw tilts enough to reach the very front of the bottle.


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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 13, 17 18:20
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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I love it! I love the DIY mentality here on ST. I'm tempted to try something similar now though I'll need to find a narrower bottle (I can barely get a standard bottle/cage between my forearms).
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Well done sir!
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Do you know if they make one that is between 35-50 oz? Would be interested in using that set up for a sprint or olympic.
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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nice work. now just add the AWA silver sticker to match

--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice. What drill bit size did you use?

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I used a 1/2" bit with a handheld drill. I drill press would have been better, but it worked and there are no sharp edges.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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quick update: that food safe marine aquarium glue has some pretty bad fumes, even 50+ hours after letting it set. Going to cut it out and use a rubber grommet instead.

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Aren't the insulting properties of these designs dependent on vacuuming all the air out from between the two layers of steel? Seems like condensation will fill the space.
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [mikealva] [ In reply to ]
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yes, you're correct. I thought the bottle I ordered used a foam insulation layer in between the two steel flasks, so I hadn't expected the vacuum layer, but that was naive on my part. Maybe I weld the two layers together at the straw opening and re-partial vacuum the flask. I'll have to look into it more.

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Why not just try spray foam? Most of them are closed cell with a better r-value than open cell.
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [mikealva] [ In reply to ]
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Good idea. But I think I'll try to avoid foam due to possible contact with fluids I'm drinking. I'll talk to a local weld shop about welding the hole and vacuum sealing inner cavity. Another idea is to buy a new bottle (heavily discounted on Amazon) and drill the lid and weld in a metal tube larger than a camelbak tube at a downward angle and route the tube through the front lid. I'll hope for the first option and a fab shop that likes the challenge - welding in vacuums for materials like titanium is semi-common, so hope it's doable... or we combine a mason jar or wine bottle vacuum method with the weld. I appreciate the ideas and feedback and I'm open to more.

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like a mini oxygen tank! 😨😨😨 great job tho!

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Put a NOS decal on it and make your salt stick dispenser look like a button ... lol

WD :-)
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Do you think it would get hot to the touch if sitting in the sun for hours?

Alex Arman

Strava
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
Good idea. But I think I'll try to avoid foam due to possible contact with fluids I'm drinking. I'll talk to a local weld shop about welding the hole and vacuum sealing inner cavity. Another idea is to buy a new bottle (heavily discounted on Amazon) and drill the lid and weld in a metal tube larger than a camelbak tube at a downward angle and route the tube through the front lid. I'll hope for the first option and a fab shop that likes the challenge - welding in vacuums for materials like titanium is semi-common, so hope it's doable... or we combine a mason jar or wine bottle vacuum method with the weld. I appreciate the ideas and feedback and I'm open to more.

A fab shop will probably weld in inert gas (usually argon), but not in a vacuum. Air is a pretty good thermal insulator anyway.

I'd go with the straw through the cap option. You keep the vacuum, and having the straw angled back is more aero than sticking straight up (if you view it from zero yaw, the wind is seeing an ellipse [vs. a circle] if the straw is angled).





ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Good question on the heat - if it sits in transition and builds up heat while I'm swimming. Guess I'll find out, but I'm hoping it stays cool to the touch.

And I think you're right on the lid option, I can just use the specialized tube magnet to stick to the bottle, and then order a new bottle and use this first lid to practice drilling, or head to the store to find an existing lid/cap with a straw hole already in it...

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Magnets tend to not be attracted to stainless steel.


milesthedog wrote:
Good question on the heat - if it sits in transition and builds up heat while I'm swimming. Guess I'll find out, but I'm hoping it stays cool to the touch.

And I think you're right on the lid option, I can just use the specialized tube magnet to stick to the bottle, and then order a new bottle and use this first lid to practice drilling, or head to the store to find an existing lid/cap with a straw hole already in it...
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! all kinds of good info. Think I'll stick a camelbak tube clip to the top of the bottle, then, and put the tube in an insulated sleeve flush with the bottle, but the sleeve has a wire so that I can position the bite valve coming at me at an angle for handsfree drinking, but minimal drag.

I will say, it was a bit of a Zoolander "in the computer" moment when I drilled the bottle to find no foam insulation, realizing I had just ruined its insulation properties. Luckily they're not relatively expensive, and the fumes coming off of where the DAP foodsafe sealant was, even now that its removed, is concerning, so this bottle goes into the recycling bin.

drilling the lid may work since it is hollow stainless steel, just putting grommets on both ends, but there would be the chance that drinkmix fluid gets into the hollow cavity, even with the grommet, so I'll look for an appropriate lid. thanks!

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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I would also imagine you're going to have a difficult time finding someone to weld stainless steel.
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [cairodog] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, I think I'm set on ordering a new bottle, drilling the lid, using a camelback crux tube, on/off valve, and insulated tube director and maybe the magnetic tube trap. I need to use this first cap as a practice run, or finding a sip/straw cap that will fit and deconstructing it a bit so I can run the camelbak tube through it. so, it will be a couple of weeks of playing around.

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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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OK, small update and requesting some feedback before I proceed.

The fume-smell went away now that the sealant is fully removed, so I'm not scrapping this first-attempt bottle yet, and I have two more identical bottles arriving shortly. I will try a through-the-cap camelbak tube on one of the new bottles, as I would like to have the vacuum insulation with no condensation in the inner layer. I also ordered some grommets and will fit those to this first bottle and keep using it - oh yeah, I used it today and it was nice. it was especially nice to not have a plastic taste that I get even with Purist bottles.

The request: eyeball windtunnelers, your thoughts on the below images regarding the bottle before I continue to experiment? My elbows are fairly narrow at 4.25cm center-center of the pads, the straw has been trimmed and the computer mounted in front of the straw to shield the straw... but really because the previous position caused the bottle to hit the lap/start/stop buttons on the garmin head unit.

[and I should note, this is a temporary solution. In a year or two, I hope to have a Morph aerobar set up on a non double triangle frame with a bta creation that looks like Frodeno's integrated Speedmax bottle, and which holds 68oz; possibly carbon shell, foam insulation with stainless steel liner - so this is temporary]


Here's the mini-scuba tank in all its glory.... tilted to ensure my straw is in contact with fluid


But when I'm in the aerobars, it seems to me that it sits fairly low and narrow, remembering that my elbows are 4.25cm apart (I'm 6' 3/4") so, narrow, but not Frodo narrow (great photo gallery of Frodo on the bike and running)


Side view. again, it seems to me this is relatively shielded by my arms


So, if you were to compare the above set up to a set up where I had to:
  1. reach for bottles
  2. sit up and grab bottles from volunteers
  3. refill my front bottle on the go
  4. have a bottle on the frame
  5. have a bottle behind the saddle
  6. reach for a bent down straw (like Frodeno's set up)

Do you think by me removing those 6 movements with this current set up that I would have any aerodynamic advantage?

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 17, 17 18:49
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Let's say, hypothetically, that if you ran an XLab or similar and had to refill it once during the race and this took you 15 seconds and the speed reduction from sitting up and letting up on the power this cost you 10 seconds. That works out to, almost precisely, a 1 watt penalty over the duration of a 70.3 bike split. So you have to look at your bottle and decide if another setup is >1 watt faster (or actually go field test :)

Rule of thumb: 50 grams of drag = 5 watts = 0.5seconds/km
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Re: Completed: 70.3-specific 68oz BTA Bottle, insulated and aero (Pics) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I'd have to refill an xlab twice and carry the other two bottles either on my frame or behind my saddle

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