Even though I don't own one; I've read over and over about how comfy the Kuota K-factor seems to be for people needing a taller head tube and a less aggressive seat tube angle. Do a search on ST and see for your self. Also consider a QR Ty-phoon, although more money it also has a nice tall head tube and more slack STA.

Hope this helps.
Coop

---

Honor, courage and commitment!

Titan Flex.

I used to have a Softride. Nice bike.

---

Matt Amman

I use a Cervelo Soloist Carbon that has been set up as a tri bike. It's not as aero as a P2C or P3C, but I have chronic back problems and it gets me as aero as I can get. It's a very comfortable ride.

Jeff

+1 for TitanFlex. I have a Transition frame and love it.

---

Formerly DrD

Never did a triathlon, but I am 53 ;-)

I have the Cervelo RS which is a very comfortable ride. I don't know if it can be set up for triathlon, I imagine it can.

---

Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

I owned a Kuota K-Factor for a time and I liked the taller head tube. I didn't like the slack seat tube angle, but it might be up your alley.

Check it out for yourself:
www.kuotanorthamerica.com

Probably a small market segment. Personally I'm in the market for something steep (78-80 degrees) with a taller head-tube (22 cm ish), and a short top-tube (58 ish) to overcome a lack of hip flexibility on my tall, long-legged frame. There is really nothing out there, I suppose a Soloist might do the trick, but not really as steep as desired, so I'll go custom to replace my beloved but unrideable (by me) P3.

Custom may be the only way you get what really works for you, and the extra cost is usually more than justified by improved position (in my opinion).

In all honesty, you would probably be best suited to a road bike with clipons rather than a tri-specific bike. tribikes are a specific geometry designed to get you lower in the front but rotating your torso forward. If that does not work for you, a regular road bike probably will. The nice thing is that with bikes like the Soloist and the new Felt AR road frames, you don't sacrifice much in aerodynamics either.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I'd disagree with that. With a steep seat tube angle and a lower head tube you're rotating the body forward (clockwise around the BB) keeping the back flatter (more neutral), with a slack seat tube angle to go lower in the front for clip-on aerobars the rotation of the pelvis relative to the BB isn't there so the bend comes from the lower back -- which will ultimately be harder on the back.

But something like a Team Soloist (taller head tube, seat post head flipped forward) or a generic road bike of your choice with a Profile Design fast forward seat post might achieve a reasonable position.

On second thought to my last post, and the fact that I forever see P2's and P3's with ridiculous numbers of spacers would say that perhaps the market for steep seat tubes with longer head tubes is not really that small. And while I would agree that the pros and the serious types are probably better off in an aggressive position, can the same be said for the middle of the packer? Might they actually be better off sacrificing a bit of aerodynamics for a more comfortable and powerful position.

For example, using calculations from analytical cyclist:

- rider going 6.5 m/s
- coefficient of drag: 0.3 (we'll assume that's super aero, they give typical 0.4-0.7) requires 187.8 W
- coefficient of drag: 0.6 (we'll assume that's not quite so aero) requires 213.0 W

Which isn't that huge of a difference. Since it's a cubic relation they effects are obviously going to be well you know to that pesky power of 3 as the speed increases. But given the average MOP'er speed, does the power / aerodynamic position trade off really work in the favour of more aerodynamic in that case?

I thought it was obvious that you wouldn't be running as low of a front end with the road bike. even keeping the hip angles the same, which is important for optimal power delivery, a more rearward & upright position should put less stress on the riders back since there is more weight supported by their ass and less by the arms and torso. Also, the spine is supporting a weight less perpendicular to its length. think about it this way; would you rather carry a 40lb backpack on all fours, or standing up?

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

But even a road bike with aerobars will be a 'low' front end compared to riding the hoods. With a slack seat tube this will require a more acute angle in the low back to get onto those aerobars since the pelvis will not be rotated forward. It's not just about where the weight is supported that will affect back comfort/discomfort, it's the position.

It can't be thought of as carrying a 40lb backpack on all fours or standing up. First of all there is no 'standing up' on the bike, even on the hoods there will be forward flexion of the back and a distribution of load onto the hands, this will only increase with aerobars. By trying to flex further forward to reach those aerobars the back has to go into more flexion, and if we are to go with your assertion that their "ass" will be supporting more of the weight this means the back will be a cantilever supporting the entire upper body while the arms rest ever so lightly on the armrests. Forward flexion is not a strong position for the back being completely under muscular control and prone to injury.

So if I am carrying a 40lb backpack and my choices are in forward flexion or on all fours, I'm gonna go with all fours because my spine can be held in neutral and I can use my abdominal muscles to stabilize. If I'm forward flexed all I've got are my back muscles, anterior column compression, and a great situation for disc herniation.

Right up my alley.... : ) I'm 53 yrs old, very long legs and very short torso. Many broken bones in the back make riding low not real compfy.

The Zipp frames have tall headtubes and can be setup with a short toptube. My bike top tube is set from tip of seat to center of head tube at 12.5", my inseam is 37", drop is 18cm and I ride 5cm in front of the bottom bracket. The super steep angle allows me to maintain an open hip angle and get lower then I should be able to with my bad back and hips. I'm still not flat but I'm fast enough!!

---

.
.
Paul

road bikes are set-up with the optimal hip angle when the rider is in the drops, not when he is on the hoods. with that in mind, clip-ons will always, always give a more open hip angle than when the rider is riding in the drops. set-up right, the hip angle will never be too acute with clip-ons on a road bike.

here is a pic of Bevan Docherty riding a road bike with clip-ons:
http://www.docherty.co.nz/...photoshootbsmall.jpg

There is very little arch in his lower back.

1) Bit of generalization to say road bikes are set-up for an optimal hip angle when the rider is in the drops -- it would depend on who set the rider up and what the rider's ambitions, riding style, and flexibility. If you are doing a hill climb the optimal position will be different than a pancake flat crit; or compare for example track bikes which tend to be a bit steeper to give a good drops position v.s. a road bike that will tend to be a bit slacker.

2) The "always, always give a more open hip angle thing" is wrong. That's going to depend on arm length, clip-on height, shoulder scrunching, awkward pelvis rotation etc...if that were true it would imply the drops were more aerodynamic -- and as non-scientific evidence I would point to the pro cyclists who adopt that arms drapped over the horizontal flat parts of their bars attempting to get a bit more aero in the breakaways -- but all the variable factors would say it just ain't so

3) "Set-up right, the hip angle will never be too acute with clip-ons on a road bike". That would depend on what "set-up right" means, which I would argue is going to vary from rider to rider and then whether their position is optimized for riding the clip-ons, the drops, or the hoods.

4) That's a very small picture of Bevan Docherty, and he does appear to have a reasonably flat back, he doesn't however look aggressively aero, and I'm going to have to take you at your word that his hip angle is optimum for power output / aerodynamics / comfort. But he races ITU draft legal events, now we didn't ask but the guy who started this thread but he probably isn't doing those and I'm guessing wants an aero position that is based on his weight being supported by 'resting' on the skeletal elements up front, not armpads at mid-forearm and weight supported by musculature.

Titanflex

---

Richard Nixon, Fit2Tri Multisport Inc.
Fit2Tri,
rich@fit2tri.com
Discount code, slowtwithch

Check out dans positional problems page under bike fit section