IMO - Riding 2-up, taking up 3-4 car lengths, is much easier to pass than a single file group that's 2x as long.

Is it any different than having to wait behind a tractor pulling a large trailer slowly on those same rural roads?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The ones I have seen in my area generally operate dangerously, narrow roads 2+ abreast often leaving little or no room for cars to pass, intersections and traffic lights are usually pretty unsafe as well. I think often the members of the group feel safer in a group and don't follow the same safety standards they would if alone or just 2 or 3.
In talking with a friend who has thousands of road miles about my concerns on riding on the road he had said large group rides are the most dangerous, either from the group itself, bike to bike crashes or from cars not being able to drive safety around the group.

well that is true and I'm not sure that's a great idea either.

After many years riding in a large group and seeing a lot of situations, I have now only ride with a group with less than 10 people whom I know pretty well. Large groups, either string out single file or 2 abreast taking the whole lane, on narrow rural roads is not a happy situation.

That's what I was thinking but didn't want to really judge because I don't group ride very often. When I do it is in smaller groups and I certainly feel more comfortable that way and communication is obviously much easier.

fair point. I think the pelotons I see are longer than a tractor pulling a large trailer. They probably are often longer than the 4 car lengths.

Regardless of what the thoughts are here, it's perfectly legal to ride two abreast in I think 47 of the 50 states.

I get your point. As much as we all are entitled to the same rights on the road, a lot of drivers are either not very well educated on traffic laws about cyclists or rational; they don't think cyclists "belong" on these roads where as horse trailers and whatnot do. I can count on one hand the incident-free large (>30 people) group rides over the years.

I get your point. As much as we all are entitled to the same rights on the road, a lot of drivers are either not very well educated on traffic laws about cyclists or rational; they don't think cyclists "belong" on these roads where as horse trailers and whatnot do. I can count on one hand the incident-free large (>30 people) group rides over the years.
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Yup

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Train safe & smart
Bob

I'd be attacking that group within a mile! Sitting in the middle of a group of 20-30 doesn't sound like fun at all

Well...then it's up to us to change those perceptions...and we can start by pointing out the obvious inconsistencies in their attitudes towards cyclists and other road users that basically result in the same "inconveniences" for the motorists (like I did above).

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Legal, but probably not in your best interest safety wise, really tough for cars when bikes are going 20+ mph and the speed limit is 25mph or 30mph on narrow twisting roads and there is a large group of riders riding 2 abreast and passing each other with cars coming the other way.

two abreast does not bother me. it's the total length of the peloton that is more that issue.

Shouldn't matter that it's difficult for cars, the cyclists have the same rights to the road. So if it's hard for the cars to pass, they shouldn't, just as if there is a USPS or other large/slow vehicle that they would normally decide to pass but because of the way the road is they can't for a long period of time.

Educating the general public on the laws should the focus, not giving motorist another inch so they can take a mile.

In this area the speed limit is, I believe 50mph, but at least 45mph. There are lots of trees so even on slight bends in the road it's not easy to see cars coming the other direction.

 


The difference could be that the cyclists can move into a single file and let the cars pass. Yeah, i know...the usual story: we have a RIGHT to be here. What they neglect is to be considerate to others and not cry bloody murder about their rights. If cars and cyclist would be more considerate to each other and not always bitch about thair rights, life would be much easier for all.

For me, doesn't matter if it's only 2 riders or 2,000, it's their road too. It's as if you tried to get out of your driveway on a normal morning and there is no one driving by and the next day for some reason a parade decides to go through your street, you wait. One day you have no one to drive behind, the next you have hundreds.

I understand that point of view, and I hesitate to argue against safety in any way. But IMO, every inch we give away from the laws that are given to us as cyclists, the less fight we'll have in the whole DOT battle. The arguments will continue to come from the side of the motorist that we as cyclists only need a publicized event on occasion because that's all the majority does or cares about. If we succumb at every corner, the laws will get more and more restrictive. Safety or not, I'm not for that approach. I would much rather support programs that educate and provide solutions for cyclists safety on the other side of the white lines.

...with the result being that it would take TWICE as long to pass them safely (assuming they're riding 2 up). I'm considerate of motorists AND bicyclist when I use the roads. But, when another road user ISN'T and is wanting to do something that decreases the safety of my road use, your damned right I'm going to "bitch about my rights".

It's not always about trying to assert rights just for their own sake. Sometimes it's about asserting those rights because it actually creates a safer condition for the most vulnerable road users. Many times I'll "assert my right" to be in a lane just to discourage a motorist from attempting an unsafe pass (such as on a blind corner). That's just one example...

To bring it back around to the original subject: Many times, especially in rural areas, the lane width isn't adequate enough to safely accommodate both a motor vehicle and a bicycle at the same time (substandard width). The way it works in CA (where I live), cyclists are NOT obligated to ride to the right of the "fog line" (and in a LOT of cases it would be ludicrous to do so due to poor conditions on the shoulder area). Also, cyclists are NOT required to be as "far to the right as practicable" in the lane if the width is "substandard". Couple that with a law that requires a minimum of 3 feet of space between a bicyclist and an overtaking motorist, and on many rural roads cars have to wait on even a single cyclist to safely pass them (i.e. not a blind turn, double yellow centerlines, etc.) In THOSE situations, despite what the motorist may think, it's actually to their benefit for a group of riders to NOT be single-file, in that when the opportunity to safely pass does present itself, they will take less time doing so and be less "exposed" to oncoming traffic themselves.

Besides...I wasn't "bitching" about anything...I was just pointing out the logical inconsistency in how some road users treat other road users.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think those are all good points. Where I live, like many other places, it's a battle to get bike lanes or to even get the dept of transportation to consider cyclists when they make decisions. They have to be reminded and badgered. Even on this stretch of road I'm talking about they recently repaved parts of it and redid the rumble strips. And of course, whoever did the rumble strips must have been drunk because half of them are completely inside the white line. And this road of course is super popular with cyclists and has plenty of room for a wide shoulder (shoulder is non-existent right now) or even a bike lane so you would think they would do that when repaving. Nope.

I do 2 group rides a week, sometimes 3. The groups are about 15-40 depending on who shows up. Our rides, do to location mostly and partly due to the make up of the group may be a bit of an outlier but I find them very safe. I know that is not typical but "group ride" does not always mean going 21 mph taking up a full lane on a well traveled 2 lane road with 55 mph speed limit.

Our environs allow us to generally ride on streets and roads where the traffic is low and the speed limits are 25-35. The 25 mph streets are 2 lanes but we are basically keeping up with traffic so it is pretty rare for us to have a car behind us that has to wait at much under the speed limit to pass. On the 35 mph roads, there are usually 4 lanes of traffic (2 each way) and again it is rarely a problem as there is not enough traffic that we are slowing anyone down since the other lane is almost always free. A typical 2-3 hour ride might have us actually passed by a car less than 5 or 6 times.

Our biggest piece of rudeness to traffic is blocking a turn lane at a light so someone can not turn right on red. But the guys who do that do get yelled at.

As for our danger to each other, these are regular rides were everyone knows everyone. Just about everyone races or rides 5000 miles+ per year and are generally very very skilled bike handlers. Squirrelly riders get called out and learn how to ride pretty quick.

As long as I know who I am riding with, I feel safer in these groups than I do on my own. We are more visible and we have many more pairs of eyes looking out for danger.

I thought riding in a group of more than 2 people was something that happens only on TV or WTC races.

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