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swim video feedback - please.
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Asking for a friend. that's it, a friend.

Geez that stroke is ugly.... my friend also has to lose 20 lbs (10 gone so far...)

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Aug 4, 17 19:46
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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bump for the morning crowd and fixed the privacy settings.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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No commentary. Just an observation and a question. It looks like you glide with your right arm as it enters water then pull. With your left you seem to pull straight away. Is there a reason?

Is that set up on the bottom not the wall?
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Lower your saddle.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Catch on your left side sucks because you have a timing error. Catch is quite frankly shit.
You are tilting your head and pull yourself out of alignment instead of rolling fully to breath.
I suspect that the backend of your right hand is truncated causing the timing error.
You loose breath space because of this and begin your left stroke too early.

First left stroke off the wall is wide and the rest have too much crossover.
Insweep of the right arm is suppressed and this probably leads to the truncated rear end as the upsweep/outsweep has no space to work in.

If I was coaching you I would give you a slap on the back of the head for being a smartarse, I mean I would have you doing one arm stroking with the other arm at your side breathing on the non stroking side to sort out your timing.

You obviously breath mostly on your right side as your whole stroke has bias in roll position to the right.
This is what is causing your excessive crossover with the left hand.

Sort out that roll timing, get your head aligned, and it should all fall into place.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure this swimmer is better than me. But for what it's worth it looks like during the breathing stroke that hand is slipping more water than the opposite. On the non-breathing stroke the propelling hand stays between vertical lines dropped from that elbow and shoulder. On the breathing stroke the propelling hand comes inside that shoulder and across the body. So it isn't holding the water, the force has to go somewhere and it slides about. I guess there are lots of possible reasons and a side on video might help. Why that happens is probably for someone smarter than me but for me it happens when my timing and rhythm is off (like 95% of the time) and those pauses make it harder to flow from one stroke to another. Then it feels like the stroke is trying to accelerate rather than maintain speed but it can't so it slips. A bit like a wheel spin but that is far too dramatic a description for what happens when I swim.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Boy you're a shitty friend. I would have recorded my "friend" from multiple angels. You just seem to hang on the wall. Tell your "friend" to find someone who is actually willing to help !
<pink>

ETA - looks like slowman finally sent you your GoPro hero ?

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
Last edited by: Leddy: Aug 5, 17 8:05
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
Boy you're a shitty friend. I would have recorded my "friend" from multiple angels. You just seem to hang on the wall. Tell your "friend" to find someone who is actually willing to help !
<pink>

ETA - looks like slowman finally sent you your GoPro hero ?

I know, right! Not only should have I used multiple angels, but also a few different angles. ;-P

I do have a couple of different views, but I just haven't put them up yet. All are underwater from approximately the same depth, and not all are great as I was experimenting with placement. gopro set up on a bike handlebar mount and that was clamped to a 5lb dumbbell on the bottom of the pool, in that view set up about 3 or 4 m from the wall on the black line.

It was the first time my "friend" had ever seen his stroke from underwater. A lot of stuff he knew about, but not how bad it was, and some he had no idea he was doing until he saw it on video, particularly how crap that left arm is...

and yeah, big thanks to slowman!

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to record myself swimming one of these days but it's been 20+ years since I've seen my stroke.
On a side note I've seen the older kids at swim meets playing around with them this summer. One night when I was timing they had it mounted to the block and I couldn't figure out what they were up to. They made a really cool video for the end of the year banquet. Some of the backstroke starts were great with the angle.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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So my "friend" took the gopro to masters today, and got a little more video. I took out a snippet (as it isn't just me, I mean, my friend) swimming here.

I think the left arm is better than it was, although it wasn't consistent and I might have been doing a bit of cherry picking. This is from a set of 12x50 on 55, close to the end of practice. one of the middle repeats, maybe #5 or 6.



Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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So much assymetry.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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Oh I know.

I don't particularly care about "my friend" being symmetrical, as "he" is a right side breather anyway and developed a little bit of a lope over the years. I don't want to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, but the catch on the left arm, the crossover on the right arm extension and crossover on the left arm pull are all things that can and should be fixed.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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The roll asymmetry is a big part of the problem.
The limbs are just adapting the best they can.

Why is the left arm in such a hurry?
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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because if I don't then I stall. if I leave it out there longer then I go slower, cuz that creates a dead spot in my stroke. I'm not saying it is perfect, but it works for me and my idiosyncracies, and I've been swimming this way for so long that I'm hesitant to completely change everything.

besides, it seems to be pretty common to get pulling quicker with the pulling arm on the breathing stroke. I see a few guys in this race doing it. Check out leClos at the bottom of the screen...



Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Looks to me like the left arm is consistently drawing slightly deeper that the right, which has a slightly higher elbow and looks more appropriate to me. It may be a roll issue, I don't know. Still his swimming form looks pretty good.
Last edited by: NealH: Aug 10, 17 18:15
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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good catch, I agree.

I might try breathing to the left instead of the right and seeing what that does to the stroke.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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a simple suggestion that has been given to me over and over again: on stroke enter do not go anywhere near the centerline... almost sure to cross it at some point and will then not swim straight. whenever i don't swim straight, it's because of this.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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NealH wrote:
Looks to me like the left arm is consistently drawing slightly deeper that the right, which has a slightly higher elbow and looks more appropriate to me. It may be a roll issue, I don't know. Still his swimming form looks pretty good.

eh - more drills and thrills, as I don't think any band-aid style tweaks will make too much of a difference. Visit a high-performance center and see what they are doing.

The guy behind however, is much more of project!

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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
because if I don't then I stall. if I leave it out there longer then I go slower, cuz that creates a dead spot in my stroke. I'm not saying it is perfect, but it works for me and my idiosyncracies, and I've been swimming this way for so long that I'm hesitant to completely change everything.

besides, it seems to be pretty common to get pulling quicker with the pulling arm on the breathing stroke. I see a few guys in this race doing it. Check out leClos at the bottom of the screen...


You are hurrying into your left stroke because you are not getting full quid out of the back of the right stroke.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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left hand sweep comes way over center, likely to support breathing habits. i find once you balance breathing, the sweep cans ort itself out.

"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
NealH wrote:
Looks to me like the left arm is consistently drawing slightly deeper that the right, which has a slightly higher elbow and looks more appropriate to me. It may be a roll issue, I don't know. Still his swimming form looks pretty good.


eh - more drills and thrills, as I don't think any band-aid style tweaks will make too much of a difference. Visit a high-performance center and see what they are doing.

The guy behind however, is much more of project!

guy behind has zero flexibility and is just coming off a recent injury. 3, I think, herniated discs and numbness all down his legs...

So I'll cut him a bit of a pass. But he's also overreaching.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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Unfortunately, the closest HPC is about 2000 kms away, so I'm stuck with you lot....

More seriously.....

Masters is only twice a week right now, with no coach on deck, and greatly diminished numbers. we had 5 at practice on Wednesday, usually it is around 20-30 depending on the night. Once the new season starts I'm gonna go over it with coach and see what he says...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Unfortunately, the closest HPC is about 2000 kms away, so I'm stuck with you lot....

More seriously.....

Masters is only twice a week right now, with no coach on deck, and greatly diminished numbers. we had 5 at practice on Wednesday, usually it is around 20-30 depending on the night. Once the new season starts I'm gonna go over it with coach and see what he says...

At first, honestly, I thought you were pranking us with that video.

Breathing too long and late...waaaaay late, nearly everything tumbling from that. Throws timing off so badly you've had to introduce compensating corrections and become a contortionist just to pull it all together into something that kinda works. My hat's off to you for managing it to the times you can put up. No need to wait for a coach to start sorting things out, just get that breath earlier, quicker, and get your nose back in the water before your left arm pulls. Think of it as a drill and you won't worry about messing up your current stroke. Lyrrad made a lot of good observations which I agree with...differing only as to the origin of the disconnect in your timing.
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Jason,
a few observations:
upon watching these videos a few times it is clear you are not exhaling much if at all in the water. The number one performance inhibitor in swimming is breathing and in particular exhaling. Been saying this here for years. (though I dont often post).
Symmetry is one of the 4 key areas of feedback for more efficient swimming.

Briefly, your brain controls everything. So it doesn't matter how hard you concentrate on entry or push or glide or finishing a stroke or any other of a million things that "swim coaches" say.. what matters is balancing your o2 / co2 level in your blood stream so you can then*think enough, to make the changes you need. Start w exhaling. (plus it is a great way to expel body fat **little fact)

At this point you are a "one armed swimmer". Your left arm is purely a support mechanism to get the breath. Your right arm is propelling you. Some simple one are swimming will demonstrate that. Exhaling more effectively will buy you the time (and the brain function) to breathe every 3rd stroke (if not 5th) and allow you to feel that asymmetry. This is NOT about doing MORE with your strokes.. in fact, your right side does significantly LESS than your left. This will be about cutting out all that extra you do that is involved with getting that breath. Hope that makes sense.

Good luck!
Best,
DaveD
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Re: swim video feedback - please. [daved] [ In reply to ]
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????

I definitely fully exhale underwater. I know that for a fact....

Why do I want to breathe every 3rd or 5th stroke?


daved wrote:
Jason,
a few observations:
upon watching these videos a few times it is clear you are not exhaling much if at all in the water. The number one performance inhibitor in swimming is breathing and in particular exhaling. Been saying this here for years. (though I dont often post).
Symmetry is one of the 4 key areas of feedback for more efficient swimming.

Briefly, your brain controls everything. So it doesn't matter how hard you concentrate on entry or push or glide or finishing a stroke or any other of a million things that "swim coaches" say.. what matters is balancing your o2 / co2 level in your blood stream so you can then*think enough, to make the changes you need. Start w exhaling. (plus it is a great way to expel body fat **little fact)

At this point you are a "one armed swimmer". Your left arm is purely a support mechanism to get the breath. Your right arm is propelling you. Some simple one are swimming will demonstrate that. Exhaling more effectively will buy you the time (and the brain function) to breathe every 3rd stroke (if not 5th) and allow you to feel that asymmetry. This is NOT about doing MORE with your strokes.. in fact, your right side does significantly LESS than your left. This will be about cutting out all that extra you do that is involved with getting that breath. Hope that makes sense.

Good luck!
Best,
DaveD

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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