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sprint and olympic hill pacing
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I know this question will require some trial and error but I'm looking for a general starting point. The general information about sprint pacing suggests that going at 100-105% ftp is a good pace for most to still have a good run. My question is what type of ftp increase would be optimal for climbs that last 2-4 km in length, with a pretty challenging grade? Again, looking for a general starting point in terms of ftp increase on hills.
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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No real good reason, but 110-120% sounds about right assuming you follow up with a quick descent where you drop down around 70-80%. Just a guess though.

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Dont make it too complicated. It really depends on how fit and experienced you are. Im a FOP sprint racer and pretty much just go all out the entire time. If you are a newer racer, just ride at a moderate pace where you think you are going hard but will not blow up. Keep it simple in sprint racing...that's the glory of it. Its racing. In my opinion, all of this technology is the reason why so many triathletes never improve to their potential. Good luck!
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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No matter what the terrain gives you just hold 95% for the 12 miles.
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [Power] [ In reply to ]
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Power wrote:
No matter what the terrain gives you just hold 95% for the 12 miles.

With a name like power, must be right.
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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If you wanted to try to optimize this perfectly you can use tools like BestBikeSplit.com to get an idea of how much to raise your power for hills and how much to lower it for downhills.

But you can pretty much just use the rule of thumb that you should raise it a "little" for uphills, (like 20 watts) and lower it a "little" for downhills (like 20 watts).

Steeper hill = more power differential.

Avoid jumping out of the saddle and doing 200 extra watts unless it is just a tiny little hill that will only last a couple seconds.

As for what % of FTP to ride at, you can only learn that by experiment in races or training. 100 to 105 is a good start. Depending on your swim you might not be able to do it!


aries33 wrote:
I know this question will require some trial and error but I'm looking for a general starting point. The general information about sprint pacing suggests that going at 100-105% ftp is a good pace for most to still have a good run. My question is what type of ftp increase would be optimal for climbs that last 2-4 km in length, with a pretty challenging grade? Again, looking for a general starting point in terms of ftp increase on hills.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
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A sprint tend to be a different animal. There proportionally more time spent coasting steeper downhills and through corners because of the higher speed and the "outlap from T1 and "inlap" to T2 to use car racing terms, also impact average power more, so simply put, you go nearly flat out. I have my first race of the season coming up and it will be my first race with power. I'm just going to target a pace right around threshold and put put a "hard ceiling" on my power at around 120%. Basically don't spike it too much and ride mostly right around threshold.

That being said, I also expect it to be a slightly tactical race, where I may need to surge a few times, mainly up hills and out of corners. There's a fair number of technical turns and I'm a confident handler (so accelerating hard out of a corner could mentally force the guy I expect to be racing, to push harder to catch up. He's a much stronger runner, so if he doesn't blow-up, I lose.

Honestly with the short overall duration, I don't think you can go too hard, other than going out a little too fast and coming up flat the 2nd lap. But i mean I don't think you can realistically over bike it. But riding as even as possible will still give you the best split.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I dunno this is the 2nd post today about going "all out" on the bike.

If I did that it would be 1500 watts for 5 seconds, 1000 watts for 30 seconds, and then I would be at an absolutely 110 watt crawl for the next hour and do really badly.

And there is a whole universe of potentially bad pacing between this absurd, literal extreme of "all out" and "perfect"

I've done plenty when I was a noob, biking really hard and then running waaaay slower than optimal in sprints.


motoguy128 wrote:
But i mean I don't think you can realistically over bike it. But riding as even as possible will still give you the best split.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I dunno this is the 2nd post today about going "all out" on the bike.

If I did that it would be 1500 watts for 5 seconds, 1000 watts for 30 seconds, and then I would be at an absolutely 110 watt crawl for the next hour and do really badly.

And there is a whole universe of potentially bad pacing between this absurd, literal extreme of "all out" and "perfect"

I've done plenty when I was a noob, biking really hard and then running waaaay slower than optimal in sprints.


motoguy128 wrote:
But i mean I don't think you can realistically over bike it. But riding as even as possible will still give you the best split.

x 1000 what Jackmott is saying.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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This is what I found when reading "Power Meter Handbook". Race at ftp for a sprint and maybe a bit higher. In terms of adjusting for conditions he suggests this as a basic guide.

The 50-40-30-20-10 Rule
If your goal (power) for the race is expected to produce an average speed of about 19 MPH, then…
When your speed is

Greater than 31 MPH Coast – get aero and stop pedaling
About 25 MPH Decrease your power output below your goal power
About 19 MPH (~30 KPH) Ride steadily at goal power
About 12 MPH Pedal a bit harder above goal power
About 6 MPH Go well above goal power


Basically, decide what pace (probably higher than 30 kp/h for most on this site especially in a sprint), your ftp should generate and then adjust. I was hoping to attach values to terms. For instance, what does "a bit harder" mean in terms of ftp%? Probably over thinking it but my learning style does much better with numbers compared to general cues.
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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That is where bestbikesplit.com can quantiy it for you. You provide a normalized power goal, and it figures out theoretical optimum pacing.

aries33 wrote:
This is what I found when reading "Power Meter Handbook". Race at ftp for a sprint and maybe a bit higher. In terms of adjusting for conditions he suggests this as a basic guide.

The 50-40-30-20-10 Rule
If your goal (power) for the race is expected to produce an average speed of about 19 MPH, then…
When your speed is

Greater than 31 MPH Coast – get aero and stop pedaling
About 25 MPH Decrease your power output below your goal power
About 19 MPH (~30 KPH) Ride steadily at goal power
About 12 MPH Pedal a bit harder above goal power
About 6 MPH Go well above goal power


Basically, decide what pace (probably higher than 30 kp/h for most on this site especially in a sprint), your ftp should generate and then adjust. I was hoping to attach values to terms. For instance, what does "a bit harder" mean in terms of ftp%? Probably over thinking it but my learning style does much better with numbers compared to general cues.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: sprint and olympic hill pacing [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I dunno this is the 2nd post today about going "all out" on the bike.

If I did that it would be 1500 watts for 5 seconds, 1000 watts for 30 seconds, and then I would be at an absolutely 110 watt crawl for the next hour and do really badly.

And there is a whole universe of potentially bad pacing between this absurd, literal extreme of "all out" and "perfect"

I've done plenty when I was a noob, biking really hard and then running waaaay slower than optimal in sprints.


motoguy128 wrote:
But i mean I don't think you can realistically over bike it. But riding as even as possible will still give you the best split.

Agreed

"ALL Out" and I'd be dead in less than 5 minutes.

My thoughts are .. I go at an effort until I start to get out of breath and then back off a smidge. I'm going hard but breathing pretty comfortably and I don't hammer the hills. I spin (which is still high power b/c I'm heavy) and then go hard at the top and the start of the down. Once I get to the run the first mile feels about the same and then the effort goes into pretty painful for a 5k to try and hold the pace

I'd rather go out a little slow than too fast. Too fast makes for a grueling day
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