Nobody starts a 3:05 marathon by running the first 10K in 55 minutes.

Maybe he was just sandbagging the first 10k....wouldn't that put him in the 6.5/mi avg for the last 20 mi?

Well, except for the fact that he ran the last 2.2K (1.4 miles) in 12 minutes, so he ran 8:30 pace for that.

And there's apparently nothing in his history that demonstrates an ability to run 20 miles at 6:30 pace.

And here we go....public accusations against someone without letting race organizers handle the situation. Internet vigilantism by some guy who has just decided that he will out people he thinks are cheating.

Let me be clear - I am NOT defending the accused runner. Not even close. I am criticizing the growing trend of trial by internet by people who have no oversight or accountability. It is one thing to do his analysis and turn that over to race officials / organizers. Whole different issue when he starts making public accusations against specific individuals, IMO.

How long before he gets it wrong and someone is publicly accused of cheating when they have not? The mobs get their piece of flesh and an innocent person has their reputation tarnished forever as a result.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Let's call a spade a spade. I think people greatly underestimate how much in athletics is actually trainable. There is no flipping way given the data provided that was his time. What this is doing though is showing how little most RDs due to prevent cheating.

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....and the last 2.2K (40K mark to the finish) he slows back down to 8:4x pace...very similar to his first 10K.

Anyone who can run 6:20s for 20mi. isn't ruining their race with a slow start/finish.

I'm guessing the cameras missed him during those intermediate miles as well ;).

He's a Newton ambassador; I hope that gets pulled.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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I'm sure at some point some innocent person likely gets tarnished. But based on how I read that blog post, this guy seems to give people benefit of doubt AND opportunity to respond to questionable results.

I don't get the impression this particular guy just outs any dodgy time without having valid reasoning.

Does this mean someone else won't see a dodgy time and just scream cheater. Maybe, maybe not.

But I wouldn't use this guy as an example of it going wrong.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm not....I specifically said I am NOT defending this guy.

But the guy running "Marathon Investigations" has no responsibility / authority for public outing anyone. If he feels the need to track down cheaters, then turn over his evidence to race directors / organizers and let them do their job.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I only see more of these kinds of posts and investigations coming in the future.

Truly, cheating is most likely rampant, and people get away with it. For the most part, it is because there really are not penalties, aside from being DQed, nor people looking for cheaters.

If someone were so inclined, they could take all the race data from across the country and create a database. An algorithm to look for anomalies such as missed check points, dramatic swings in pace, and so forth would not be terribly difficult to set up.

So for those that actually finish the races, with the times they earned, what do you feel is an adequate response to a proven cheater? Fines? Ban from competition altogether?

While the IM cheater had won her age group, this guy only qualified for Boston. That in itself is a goal for many recreational runners.

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http://www.medtechsportblog.com

And what if RD's for various reasons do nothing? Because RD's have many responsibilities, so what if they simply say "thanks we'll look into it" and that's it. What if they simply don't want to go into this depth of checking every single athlete who qualifies?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree. Outing them on the internet just isn't right.

I actually think his whole point in all of this is that he's doing this as a responsibility to all the runners out there trying to qualify for races. I don't think he's doing this to eat his popcorn while he just throws mud on people.

ETA: So while you don't think he has an authority, I think he's doing this as an move to make sure the sport is done the right why by runners. So in that instance it's above any race really and gets down to the purity of the sport. YOU earn that time and spot to these prestigious races or you don't.

ETA #2- I understand if you don't think they should be outed. My point more was that this guy seems to be doing it the right way from an investigative sense. He's giving the runners the ability to respond to his claims. Will the next "investigator" be as diligent? Maybe, maybe not. So if this begins some slippery slope, I can see what you were mentioning.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i believe this guy is guilty... BUT i have done something like this, but not as egregious.

my last marathon was a tuneup race. i decided to start the first 10k slow. i believe i ran it at an 8:30 pace. for some reason i didn't get my split read at the 2nd and 3rd time checks. by the 4th time check my pace dropped to 8:09, then 8:05, then 7:08. my goal was to push the final 10k.

perhaps that's what he was doing, but the fact that he just so happens to qualify for boston makes it pretty darn suspicious. not to mention not one single piece of data backing up his ability to run a 3:05. he has strava, if you can run a 3:05, you're doing plenty of 10 mile runs at sub 70 min pace.

lucky for me, i wear a garmin and i have proof i ran my splits. i would love to see his strava of the race as it appears he has a gps watch.

yeah, this site just feels yuck to me. you can investigate results without posting their pictures, company names, bio. it's inappropriate.
do the research, prove your point without a doubt and then *maybe* post those details. i could get a little more on board with the level of detail shared. *maybe*

the way this particular site is done just feels wrong to me. too personal, too fast. too assumed guilty, regardless of how likely that might be.

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http://www.hooslisa.com

I think it is great work and if someone doesn't want to get outed for cheating then don't cheat.

Except that Julie Miller, Mike Rossie, etc would never had been caught without the internet police

You also didn't drop down to 6:30 pace for the middle 18 miles and then decide to cruise the last bit in 8:30s again.

People were doing this because they thought they could get away with it. I'm glad Derek is doing what he's doing. Keep it up!

How many people qualifying for Boston are not using a GPS watch? Less than 5 percent? Less than 1 percent? The fact of the matter is, as quick as he can out these people, the vast majority of them should be able to clear their name in about 60 seconds. I have every GPS file from the last 5-7 years on my computer, it would take me all of 30 seconds to email those off or send a garmin connect link to show my times.

I think assumed guilty is well after it makes sense for them to be innocent. I'm glad he's doing what he's doing, we don't need people cheating in the sport.

1986 called and said they agree with you.

Dude, he PUBLICLY states on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Strava, Athlinks, and his personal and paid RUNNING COACHING WEBSITE, about this specific race. Add up his followers on all of those sites and you are telling me that 2,587 people and the rest of the public internet that he blasted this to (multiple times I might add) can't question his effort online? The same format that he used to share this incredible feat?

Your energy is misguided. Focus on educating those about the power of the internet and how it's basically locked in stone forever....and that lying/cheating/stealing is bad too. Have kids with accounts? Focus on my message instead.

No oversight or accountability? Let's play a game. I'll name 5 that were true. You name 5 that are not. Miller Rossi Finman T3 Price (Bonus - Lawlor)

Go.............

ah, but you are defending this guy and all cheats when you shame the guy who outs the cheats. choosing to do nothing is still making a choice. you are choosing to be on the side of the ostrich .... I wonder why.

You are right. This is vigilante justice at it's finest.

I'll say this again...I am NOT defending the accused runner. If you can't understand that point, well, then you can't understand that point because I can't put it any simpler than that.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams