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n00b race wheel question
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So my shiny new HED Jet 6's showed up in the mail yesterday and I now don't know what to do about tubes. The 42mm Race Lights I have are not long enough. But before I go ahead and buy ones with 60mm valves, I figured I'd pick ST collective wisdom about whether or not that will solve my issue - or whether I'm now stuck in the land of valve extenders. I'm not seeing an option longer than 60mm for a 650c wheel... but if there's one out there I'm missing, educate me.

Thanks!
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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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kenda makes an 80mm valve in 650c. If you want latex tubes your options are going to be pretty limited though.

https://www.amazon.com/...0Y30N5/dp/B001G65G60

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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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there's going to be about 1000 ways to solve this issue. I'd let you know what I do and why and you can make your own decisions:

I have regular training wheels and both 60mm and 90mm race wheels and chose to go the valve extender route so that I could purchase 1 training tube and 1 racing tube that fits all of my needs.

Conti 48mm butyl (black) tube with removable core (training tube, also put a valve extended on it to make it my spare training/racing tube - because who remembers to swap out their spare tube before and after races?! and if you use a butyl tube with a valve extender on a training wheel, you don't worry about wasting a $15 latex tube or a 80mm butyl tube that's $10.)

Vittoria 48mm latex (pink) tube with removable core (racing tube, put appropriate valve extender on and it fits any wheel)

The removable core tubes are necessary to me as I want to be able to open and close the valve easily. I have many of the Enve valve extenders (not the more expensive SES silica ones that tend to rattle) which you can easily put the core into and functions as a normal valve. I also use plumbers tape between the valve, extender, and core to prevent leaks. I've been pretty happy with my setup.

http://www.natemillertri.com/
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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Jason. Apparently my ability to search has completely deserted me today. Derp.

Is there a benefit to using longer-valved tubes over an extender, or vice versa?
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Re: n00b race wheel question [n8mill] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Nate. That's helpful.

I'm not super competitive like a lot of you folks (I have race wheels because they look cool and, well, taxmas came), so I'm not worried about the fancy latex tubes. I'm worried about the logistics of what happens if I get a flat in the middle of IMLP - what is going to be easiest for me to deal with on the fly and not ruin my day.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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No.

for the 6s you're going to need 80mm of valve. you can buy butyl tubes with integrated 80mm valves. you cannot buy latex with integrated 80mm valves. get the vittoria ones with 42mm valves and get a 40mm valve extender.

Strava I Instagram
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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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UK2ME wrote:
Thanks, Jason. Apparently my ability to search has completely deserted me today. Derp.

Is there a benefit to using longer-valved tubes over an extender, or vice versa?

I find extenders to be a PITA. Inevitably they loosen, and then the plumbers tape doesn't quite seal properly the second time you tighten it down, making you remove the tube to reapply it. or the valve core closes while you are putting on the extender, or something else.

long valve tubes are easier to deal with in a deep section rim, but will look ridiculous on a shallower training rim, so you'll need a second set of spare tubes for training.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I find extenders to be a PITA. Inevitably they loosen, and then the plumbers tape doesn't quite seal properly the second time you tighten it down, making you remove the tube to reapply it. or the valve core closes while you are putting on the extender, or something else.

long valve tubes are easier to deal with in a deep section rim, but will look ridiculous on a shallower training rim, so you'll need a second set of spare tubes for training.

That was my suspicion - and if 80mm will save all that hassle, that's just fine with me. I have plenty of 42mm valve tubes for my training wheels, so no issue there. Thanks much for the help.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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you're welcome.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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UK2ME wrote:
Thanks, Nate. That's helpful.

I'm not super competitive like a lot of you folks (I have race wheels because they look cool and, well, taxmas came), so I'm not worried about the fancy latex tubes. I'm worried about the logistics of what happens if I get a flat in the middle of IMLP - what is going to be easiest for me to deal with on the fly and not ruin my day.

Since you want to go the butyl tube route, I would suggest 1 of 2 below options: Do you plan to use your new shiney HEDs for race day only? Do you always train on one bike? Will you remember to take your training spare tube off your bike and replace with the racing 80mm tube?

Option 1:
- Buy 80mm butyl tubes for your HEDs, buy a few extra to have as spare (put 1-2 on your bike for race day) - $10+/each
- Buy standard 42mm butyl tubes for your training wheels - $4-10/each

Option 2:
- Buy standard 42mm butyle tubes (with removable core) for both training and racing wheels - $4-10/each
- Buy valve extenders (that accept a core - not the crummy ones that don't) - $10/pair (buy an extra pair)
- Buy plumbers tape - $2

I find the 80mm tubes always seem to have an issue with the core over time (which can not be replaced), so I like the flexibility/cost of using 1 tube that's half the price of a 80mm one. I also like not having to remember to swap my race/training tubes in my flat kit - it's always ready to go. Others would prefer to not have to deal with the valve extender becoming loose over the flexibility. Something inside me dies a little when I use a 80mm race tube during a training ride. Not sure why.

Like I said, there's a ton of ways to deal with this. To each their own =)

-Nate

http://www.natemillertri.com/
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Re: n00b race wheel question [n8mill] [ In reply to ]
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n8mill wrote:
Since you want to go the butyl tube route, I would suggest 1 of 2 below options: Do you plan to use your new shiney HEDs for race day only? Do you always train on one bike? Will you remember to take your training spare tube off your bike and replace with the racing 80mm tube?

Option 1:
- Buy 80mm butyl tubes for your HEDs, buy a few extra to have as spare (put 1-2 on your bike for race day) - $10+/each
- Buy standard 42mm butyl tubes for your training wheels - $4-10/each

Option 2:
- Buy standard 42mm butyle tubes (with removable core) for both training and racing wheels - $4-10/each
- Buy valve extenders (that accept a core - not the crummy ones that don't) - $10/pair (buy an extra pair)
- Buy plumbers tape - $2

I find the 80mm tubes always seem to have an issue with the core over time (which can not be replaced), so I like the flexibility/cost of using 1 tube that's half the price of a 80mm one. I also like not having to remember to swap my race/training tubes in my flat kit - it's always ready to go. Others would prefer to not have to deal with the valve extender becoming loose over the flexibility. Something inside me dies a little when I use a 80mm race tube during a training ride. Not sure why.

Thanks for the thoughts. This is a totally new "problem" for me to have, so learning about all the ways to skin this cat is a good thing!

I have never had "training stuff" and "race stuff", I have "that stuff that's on my bike". Yep... n00b! I'm a heavy girl; there's no benefit to me spend money to save a gram here and there when I could stand to lose 50 pounds - I have things that work well enough for everything. Historically, I've done the bulk of my training and racing on my road bike, which has 700c wheels so there's no crossover of parts. Now I've had my tri bike refitted and I'm aiming to race longer this year, I will need to spend more time on it.

I have "one set does everything" tubes and tires on my tri bike at the moment. I would like, I think, to be able to train on either set of wheels - just to know what the deeper wheels feel like in different conditions. I have spares for my stock wheels. I envisage buying four 80mm tubes for my race wheels - two to use - racing and some training - and two for spares. I do have race tires, which will now go on the race wheels.

The flat kit consistency is a valid thought; I presume that even if it looks silly, an 80mm valve tube would get me home on my training wheels?

I'm concerned that if I get a flat in the middle of a race that I'm not going to know what to do in the moment with a valve extender. It feels like an extra step to wig me out that I could avoid. Is it just practice to do it on the fly? Or do you carry a longer valved tube in case you have to swap out your extended one? I'm not racing for podium, I'm participating to finish, so I'm not in the position of "one flat and it's all over" - unless it takes me so long to change a flat that I miss cutoffs ;o)
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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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other than looking silly, an 80mm stem will be fine as a spare tube. just chuck that in your flat kit and you'll be good regardless of the wheel.

The only potential issue with the long stem is if you end up getting a disc or hed3, which won't work with long stems.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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There is no extra step.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
There is no extra step.

not an extra step if all goes like it should, but there is an additional potential point of failure.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I've been using valve extenders for about 30 years and have never had a problem, so I don't understand all this worrying about a threaded aluminum tube.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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Count yourself lucky then, I've had plenty of issues with them. either the valve closing itself, improper seal, or other issues. It was even more of a PITA with my zipp tubs. Haven't had to use them in the last 15 years though since I stopped road racing, just using trispokes now.

but the point is, if there is an easy way to NOT use them, then why bother with them?

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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Most people reading this forum are probably thinking about using latex tubes, so they would most likely need valve extenders.

To keep the valve open, glue it.
Last edited by: jimatbeyond: Feb 13, 18 15:07
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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I've tried a few different extenders that left me underwhelmed, but since finding the Topeak extenders with the little integrated valve 'key' in the middle I've had zero reliability issues and much prefer them to worrying about which tubes go w/ which wheels. They come in a couple different lengths for kinda deep vs really deep rims, so you're free to use whichever tubes you like for either. Best, most versatile solution IMO.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Most people reading this forum are probably thinking about using latex tubes, so they would most likely need valve extenders.

To keep the valve open, glue it.

Ok, but that's not what UK2ME is considering.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [UK2ME] [ In reply to ]
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I'm aiming to race longer this year, I will need to spend more time on it.

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Which race?

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Chatty 70.3 and IMLP.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Latex tubes are almost free speed.
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Re: n00b race wheel question [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know if they even make 650 latex tubes?
If no one makes 650 latex tubes, can you use a 700 latex tube in a 650 wheel and still get the low rolling resistance benefits of latex? (If anyone on ST knows).
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Re: n00b race wheel question [laughingfarmer] [ In reply to ]
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laughingfarmer wrote:
Does anyone know if they even make 650 latex tubes?
If no one makes 650 latex tubes, can you use a 700 latex tube in a 650 wheel and still get the low rolling resistance benefits of latex? (If anyone on ST knows).

Haven't seen any 650 c latex tubes that I can find.

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Re: n00b race wheel question [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Count yourself lucky then, I've had plenty of issues with them. either the valve closing itself, improper seal, or other issues. It was even more of a PITA with my zipp tubs. Haven't had to use them in the last 15 years though since I stopped road racing, just using trispokes now.

but the point is, if there is an easy way to NOT use them, then why bother with them?

I've had issues with screw on extenders, the ones that are applied over a tube that doesn't have a removable core. Not only does the seal not always hold, but it's also a PITA to release air if you put too much in.

So for deeper wheels I use latex tubes with removable cores, and then use an extender that screws into the original core and reuse the tip of the valve into the end of the extender. Never had an issue with seal on those once set properly and super easy to pump up and adjust pressure.

For spares, I just carry a standard 80 mm tube. Because I only use my deep wheels on race day, if I do flat, I know after the race I'm going to pull that 80 mm valve butyl tube back out to reuse as a spare and put a new latex tube with extender back in. If I were the type to train with deep wheels, then I would just use 80 mm valve butyl tubes all the time for training, and swap to latex with removeable core extender for racing.
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