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max heart rate
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Is there a way to accurately (within a few beats) determine my max heart rate based on my LTHR? I have tested and consistently get a LTHR of 164 but mcmillian (a newer running resource for me) bases workouts around an estimated max heart rate. I don't believe one truly ever gets to max rates during tests and that's why I'm hoping that knowing my LTHR will provide a pretty good idea for max. Any thoughts?
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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According the Friel's,Total Heart Rate Training (p.141), if 164 is your running LTHR, your max will be around 178-179 bpm.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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No, I'm pretty sure they're won't be a formula for this as my understanding is that MHR is not something that changes much over time, but you can move your LTHR by training.

I think you can get a good MHR figure if you prepare well for the test and are motivated during it. It helps if you do it as part of a group session when we'll rested as the competitive nature of group training help you really push.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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aries33 wrote:
Is there a way to accurately (within a few beats) determine my max heart rate based on my LTHR? I have tested and consistently get a LTHR of 164 but mcmillian (a newer running resource for me) bases workouts around an estimated max heart rate.
Lame!
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I don't believe one truly ever gets to max rates during tests and that's why I'm hoping that knowing my LTHR will provide a pretty good idea for max. Any thoughts?
Maybe if you captured your HR during a 5k PR type run I guess that might be it, or at the end of a run LTHR test. Then see if correlating the McMillan MHR zones/run descriptions to LTHR zones is possible to make sure your a) not over-training, b) under-training.

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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For the run, do a good warm up and find a very steep hill and run as hard as you can until you can't. You will find a max. Limp home.
On the bike, I like a group ride and again, hit a long and/or steep hill and do your best to hang with the big boys. Narually check with a physician before taking anyone's advice on max heart rate.
Calculations are usually off.
At almost 60, I think the max does change with age, has for me.

Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Don Fink's book - Be Iron Fit - has a chapter about heart rate training and how to calculate max heart rate. It worked great for me.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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You can estimate a threshold and base ranges from that, but you can't "accurately" estimate a max from a threshold. You can get close, but a true max test requires a leveling of your heart rate at a higher stage/intensity. The value you have for the LTHR depends on the distance of the test.

If your training goal is to work off of a threshold (below, at, and above), then just use the threshold and don't worry about the max.

Just remember that HR is a "range" and not an absolute from a training standpoint. Especially if you're using HR as a training intensity determining factor. For most, if you have more than 3 ranges that you're working off of for HR, you're already limiting your performance.

http://www.reathcon.com
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Find a track…..warm up easy 15-25 minutes.

2X1km at 10 km speed half rest,

2X800m at 5km speed half rest,

….Then start cutting down to 400m but progressively cutting the rest:

2X400m at slightly faster than 5km speed equal rest

2X400m at slightly faster than 5km speed 1 min rest.

2 (or 3-4) X400m at all out 30 sec rest.

You should find max HR on one of the last 400's

IE if you are 40:00 for 10km:

2X1km at 4:00 repeat on 6 min

2X800m at 2:50-3:00 repeat on 4:30

2X400m at 1:20-1:25 repeat on 3:00 or so

2X400m at 1:20-1:25 repeat on 2:30 or so

2-4X400m at sub 1:20 repeat on 1:50-2:00.

……you'll find it or get pretty close, If you are looking for bike max HR. A very loose correlation is 5 beats less standing at all out or 10 beats less seated. YMMV.

Maurice
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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I'd venture a guess at no, you can't estimate max from static tests. Not only that, I would also suspect that max is a moving target: if you're being chased by a grizzly bear it is probably higher due to the bodies own inputs of self-preservation instinct / drugs (adrenaline, at least) - say compared to the finishing sprint at your local 5k.

Barring an athletic event that combines [real] near-death experiences, you're left with the "RPE" scale for estimating what "all out" means to you. I would guess, though, that your max is higher than you think it is.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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I would use a ramp test protocol and go for broke.

I have done this to myself in the past for both cycling and running.
You will get different values

It doesn't take much to perform, especially if you have a treadmill or a power meter.

In either case pick a "zone 2" effort, then increase the effort every minute (or 2 mine, but you shouldn't need more, but don't go less since your heart rate needs time to respond and stabalize)

Ideally the effort increase increments are the same at each time interval, it helps to work it out in advance, and to know what your equipment can do (such as having to use speed increments on a treadmill instead of pace increments)

This will give you a value, and although it should decrease with age, there is no set rate, and mine has been stable for about 7 years for the run and my bike has moved up closer. The lower one is lower because you are not fit enough in that sport to really max out. The closer they are together, the more even you are across the two.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate the support guys. Happy Monday.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Another way to approach the testing is to enter an open 10k, keep the pace high, and go nuts in the last 2-3km. That's how I got my highest ever recorded HR.
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Re: max heart rate [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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Ramp test protocol or some other effort where you go really f*cking hard. For example, the highest heart rate I have ever achieved was in a circa 8k fell race where I was trying to chase down a (faster) club member in the final 1/2km. I literally couldn't go any harder, since I basically increased my pace to failure. I use that as my max HR.

But as an illustration, my theoretical HR max is 220 - age, and at 38 that is 182. In the above scenario year before last I hit 214. So I'd be way off if I used any estimated HR max for my training paces, but I'd find my zone 4/5 efforts a lot easier!
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Re: max heart rate [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
But as an illustration, my theoretical HR max is 220 - age, and at 38 that is 182. In the above scenario year before last I hit 214.

Wow, 214 at 38 is pretty impressive! I hit 203 at age 25 and thought that was pretty high.
Have you looked at the HR file to make sure that it wasn't an anomalous reading? i.e. was there progression up to 214 and then back down again afterwards?
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Re: max heart rate [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, it's genuine and I've got a normal progression to around that HR from multiple hard efforts at different times. I can pull out a dozen races I recorded on Garmin Connect with maximum over 210. I can go over 200 pretty easily, especially hard efforts uphill.

I have the HR max of a teenage hummingbird looking at hummingbird porn for the first time. I don't take it as good or bad, just a number. My resting HR is 44, so not worried.

I grant that I'm an outlier, but I've come across lots of folk who are a good 20 beats off their theoretical HR max, and that is more than enough to put you a long way into the wrong zone if you train by HR.
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Re: max heart rate [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
Nope, it's genuine and I've got a normal progression to around that HR from multiple hard efforts at different times. I can pull out a dozen races I recorded on Garmin Connect with maximum over 210. I can go over 200 pretty easily, especially hard efforts uphill.

I have the HR max of a teenage hummingbird looking at hummingbird porn for the first time. I don't take it as good or bad, just a number. My resting HR is 44, so not worried.

I grant that I'm an outlier, but I've come across lots of folk who are a good 20 beats off their theoretical HR max, and that is more than enough to put you a long way into the wrong zone if you train by HR.

What would your heart rate be at threshold, do you know your FTP?
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Re: max heart rate [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Fair play.

"Oh my Grandma, what a big heart rate reserve you have!"
"All the better for hurting myself with."
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Re: max heart rate [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Even in my late 30's I would max out over 200 in a 5k. One race my average was around 192 for the effort with a peak of 201. I'm another outlier with a really skewed higher range. Then again ..... I have/had heart problems .......

My peak has really hit in the 240 range during some of my a-fib episodes. But that is just the top chambers and not in sync with the bottome ones. So yeah, that is always fun.

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib
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Re: max heart rate [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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I do test my FTP but never pay any attention to the LTHR estimate that Trainerroad spits out, if I do it that way. Looking at a couple of recent workouts with intervals at sweetspot or around FTP, I'd guess something like 176. For the bike, obv.

Average HR for this race was 197, max 210. 3.8 mile off road running race. Don't know what the hell is going on with Garmin, all of the graphs are full of gaps..
http://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/110978587
Last edited by: knighty76: Jan 26, 15 6:50
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Re: max heart rate [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
I do test my FTP but never pay any attention to the LTHR estimate that Trainerroad spits out, if I do it that way. Looking at a couple of recent workouts with intervals at sweetspot or around FTP, I'd guess something like 176. For the bike, obv.

Average HR for this race was 197, max 210. 3.8 mile off road running race. Don't know what the hell is going on with Garmin, all of the graphs are full of gaps..
http://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/110978587

Looking at the TCX file, there are a few things that pop out:
1) You have a very sketchy GPS lock at the start that slowly gets better. I doubt that caused the issue, but who knows? In any case, let the watch sit around a little longer before the race starts.
2) You are using smart recording. There is no good reason not to use every second recording as long as you...
3) The GPS locks on and records a point every time, but there is not a distance calculation every time. That looks like a computation problem. Try clearing out all activity history. Your watch's memory is probably full which may slow down those 'on the fly' calculations.
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