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Re: kona '17 top 3 [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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I think essentially the same mix of what most of you guys have said.

The only name I'd throw out there for a "wild card" is James Cunnama. He's had a sneakily impressive mid-late summer and has an engine.

Am also very interested to see how Pete Jacobs goes this year. If his social media is to believed he's training as well as he has done post-2012 now. That being said, he seems just so placid and Kona is a race you need to be hungry for. Does anyone else feel the same?

Would love a Sanders/Frodeno war on the run - grit vs. pedigree!
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
oscaro wrote:
1.Frodo
2.Kienle
3.Nilsson (with a new run course record)


Nilsson - are we talking Kona or bar hopping with John Lennon?

Seriously though - I follow this crap closer than probably 90 percent of triathletes and I need to Google your third choice pick. Am I missing something obvious?

ETA - Patrick Nilsson, gotcha. Not really on my radar but a 7:49 and a 7:55 are pretty impressive. How hot was Barcelona? Can Swedish dudes handle that heat?

I would definitely recommend putting this guy on your radar! 7:55 was after mechanical issues so he rode solo. He outran Lange and everyone else in Frankfurt with a 2:39 and it was 35°, so yeah he can handle heat ;)

And his first win was IM Malaysia. Heat and humid seems to be something for Nilsson.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, he just seems to get better the hotter it is. Less than 2 weeks to go! The pros are starting their tapers and I’m getting pumped

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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Men

1 - JF
2 - SK
3 - LS

with Mr Don in the mix

1 - DF
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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x2. What more does Sanders have to do to be legitimately in this discussion. Far cry from "Laughing?" Why exactly. Lange is more a risk having been injured I agree. I think Frodo is vulnerable moreso than last year. Kienle not dominate but I think Lionel being better in the swim could help Kienle. So much depends on conditions (wind on bike). Calm wind helps frodo and lead pack swimmers A LOT. Has not been a brutal wind in a long long time. People forget what a bad wind day can mean - ala Steve Larson 2001 year he blew them all apart on bike leading in T2 after swimming 1:01 I think. Would love to see a palm tree bending wind this year to spruce it up. If not the train to Hawi is tough to crack.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Canuck1] [ In reply to ]
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Men:

1 - Frodo
2 - Sanders
3 - Kienle

Women:

1 - Ryf
2 - Crowley
3 - Jackson
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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1st Patrick Lange
2nd Jan Frozen
3rd Sebastien Keinle
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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Tyler Butterfield to podium.

Don't care about anyone else in the race....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [cschroeder1994] [ In reply to ]
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Lange's injury seems to be a distant memory. He ran an unchallenged 1:11 in Rügen last month to win by 6:02; apart from that, I'd say he's been omninously quiet, much like Frodeno. Hopefully this means a really good battle after T2.

29 years and counting
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Ok ready to put up my top 5 men.

1. Frodo
2. Lange
3 Sanders
4. Keinle
5. Hoffman

My rationale; I really wanted to pic Patrick for the win, think he would have won last year without the penalty but, Winners find a way to win, Frodo is a winner. Last year was a lucky wake up call for him regarding Lange,(assuming Lange does not spot him 5 minutes of course) and I think that he will now have prepared for that. He will do whatever he has to on the bike to not start the run with him, where he usually would just go with the flow of the group. He probably of course has a head to head running plan, but he won't be smiling like he does running with Keinle.

And with Keinle and Sanders just 4 to 5 minutes back, Frodo will have his opportunity to have someone else make a move and then go with it. He doest have to stay with them all the way, just make that gap to T2 as much as possible.

After Lionel's great swim today I'm confident that he will have enough left after the catch to continue to have a great race. Don't think he can outrun either of the Germans, even getting spotted 5 minutes, but he outruns Keinle and Hoffman.

Keinle gets a good lead to T2 with Sanders and perhaps a Wurf or Weiss, or someone else having a great bike day, or just going for the bike record. His run will suffer, but he is used to suffering on the run, holds form and doesn't usually blow up completely.

Hoffman has a great race, is in the thick of it the whole way, but there are just guys faster than him out there.

Now any of these guys falter I like Nilsson, Don, and TO to fill their spots. TO has been there so knows what it takes, Don seems to be on a roll even discounting that bike in Rio, and Nillson is that guy who cracked top 10 that continually moves up until they challenge for the win someday.
Last edited by: monty: Oct 7, 17 16:12
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I like Hoffman a lot. He seems like the most prepared American for next Saturday and it seems he has invested everything into this race. However, I think his year is next year. I just don't see him beating Frodeno. Doesn't mean he won't but it's a tall order. I think after Frodeno retires from racing Kona after this year and does his goodbye tour (ala Crowie) it will give way for Hoffman.

Whatever happens I just hope whoever does win has to work all the way to the end. Not secure this race too early.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Ok ready to put up my top 5 men.

1. Frodo
2. Lange
3 Sanders
4. Keinle
5. Hoffman

My rationale; I really wanted to pic Patrick for the win, think he would have won last year without the penalty but, Winners find a way to win, Frodo is a winner. Last year was a lucky wake up call for him regarding Lange,(assuming Lange does not spot him 5 minutes of course) and I think that he will now have prepared for that. He will do whatever he has to on the bike to not start the run with him, where he usually would just go with the flow of the group. He probably of course has a head to head running plan, but he won't be smiling like he does running with Keinle.

And with Keinle and Sanders just 4 to 5 minutes back, Frodo will have his opportunity to have someone else make a move and then go with it. He doest have to stay with them all the way, just make that gap to T2 as much as possible.

After Lionel's great swim today I'm confident that he will have enough left after the catch to continue to have a great race. Don't think he can outrun either of the Germans, even getting spotted 5 minutes, but he outruns Keinle and Hoffman.

Keinle gets a good lead to T2 with Sanders and perhaps a Wurf or Weiss, or someone else having a great bike day, or just going for the bike record. His run will suffer, but he is used to suffering on the run, holds form and doesn't usually blow up completely.

Hoffman has a great race, is in the thick of it the whole way, but there are just guys faster than him out there.

Now any of these guys falter I like Nilsson, Don, and TO to fill their spots. TO has been there so knows what it takes, Don seems to be on a roll even discounting that bike in Rio, and Nillson is that guy who cracked top 10 that continually moves up until they challenge for the win someday.

Between Frodo probably wanting a lead on Lange and everyone wanting to keep the pace hot for exactly that purpose, do you believe there is any chance of Frodo cracking, being a bit older and just bearing more pressure. Also I think Amberger and Wurf will keep the bike pace very high and will try to go with the Kienle/Sanders train and should be able to. I'd imagine all 4 come to T2 close to each other. Frodo can be in the group of riders if he wants to/chooses to.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Who's the guy laughing at someone picking Sanders but think Jesse Thomas "could do something"! Lol! Boy Jesse has some loyal fans.

Hoffman is the only American that has a chance.

My dark horses are Ruedi Wild and Braden Currie.
Last edited by: noon3225: Oct 7, 17 17:15
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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do you believe there is any chance of Frodo cracking, being a bit older and just bearing more pressure.//

I don't expect him to crack on the bike, he is a very smart racer and he knows his body. He won't lose the race on the cycling roads. If he feels the pace is too hot he will drop off and make sure he has his most lethal weapon, the run. None of those guys that could drop him will be a threat in his mind, he will be worrying about who is behind, or next to him.


Like I said, dude is a winner and he will put himself in the best possible position to make that happen. Over cooking the bike is not in his nature.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [noon3225] [ In reply to ]
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1. Frodo repeats (would like to see Gomez dethrone him in time)
2. I hope SK podiums he deserves it. Poor swimmers love to root for him
3. Tim Don. He knows it's the twilight of his career. Still banging on all cylinders and wants to finish big.

sorry Americans. I dont see it.

1. RYF RYF RYF
2. three in contention
3. Lucy Charles. She could be big
Last edited by: Rider17: Oct 7, 17 21:24
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
do you believe there is any chance of Frodo cracking, being a bit older and just bearing more pressure.//

I don't expect him to crack on the bike, he is a very smart racer and he knows his body. He won't lose the race on the cycling roads. If he feels the pace is too hot he will drop off and make sure he has his most lethal weapon, the run. None of those guys that could drop him will be a threat in his mind, he will be worrying about who is behind, or next to him.


Like I said, dude is a winner and he will put himself in the best possible position to make that happen. Over cooking the bike is not in his nature.

I am thinking there are 3 reasons for Frodo to try to keep the pace of Kienle + Sanders. Two of those reasons are Wurf and Amberger helping Kienle and Sanders for a bigger lead at T2. The third reason is wanting to have a gap on Lange. If he lets Wurf+Amberger assist Kienle+Sanders these two guys MAY have a decently large enough lead that Frodo never catches up. Plus there is the gap to Lange that is needed. You combine these two and it seems like Frodo could choose to roll a bit higher pace on the bike to stay with the front and keep the gap on the gazelle behind.

Keep in mind that Kienle and Sanders can run mid 2:40's in non Kona IM's so you don't want to give them too large a lead.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Keep in mind that Kienle and Sanders can run mid 2:40's in non Kona IM's so you don't want to give them too large a lead. //

I believe Wurf will be out of sight before the dynamic duo of K/S shows up, and he may stay out there all day solo. He is after one thing only, so on a kamikaze mission for the bike course record, cant wait around for guys 2 to 5 minutes off the back.


And you have to keep in mind that those two have to probably close 5 minutes to the lead group, not an easy feat and likely riding over normal watts. So really they only have the last half of the bike to make things happen and Frodo really only needs to ride with them for awhile, if it is reasonable. Both those guys and maybe TO and Hoffman will all be thinking long term, so I expect some small time gaps in the last 30 miles, but nothing to worry Frodo. Like you said, mid 2;40's but not at Kona. I figure Keinle 2;50 flat at best and Lionel high 2;40's, all manageable for Frodo giving up a few minutes on the bike.


I still believe it is Lange in his head in this race because he is the "one" guy that outruns him by a pretty good margin, and at Kona, not somewhere else that times are funky. No one really has to run off the legs they have at Kona either during the year, just no comparisons. It is an all in mentality for most the guys there, the hold back pacers are usually just looking to crack top 10.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Keep in mind that Kienle and Sanders can run mid 2:40's in non Kona IM's so you don't want to give them too large a lead. //

I believe Wurf will be out of sight before the dynamic duo of K/S shows up, and he may stay out there all day solo. He is after one thing only, so on a kamikaze mission for the bike course record, cant wait around for guys 2 to 5 minutes off the back.


And you have to keep in mind that those two have to probably close 5 minutes to the lead group, not an easy feat and likely riding over normal watts. So really they only have the last half of the bike to make things happen and Frodo really only needs to ride with them for awhile, if it is reasonable. Both those guys and maybe TO and Hoffman will all be thinking long term, so I expect some small time gaps in the last 30 miles, but nothing to worry Frodo. Like you said, mid 2;40's but not at Kona. I figure Keinle 2;50 flat at best and Lionel high 2;40's, all manageable for Frodo giving up a few minutes on the bike.


I still believe it is Lange in his head in this race because he is the "one" guy that outruns him by a pretty good margin, and at Kona, not somewhere else that times are funky. No one really has to run off the legs they have at Kona either during the year, just no comparisons. It is an all in mentality for most the guys there, the hold back pacers are usually just looking to crack top 10.

If Kienle + Sanders show up before Kawaihai on the way out, then Frodo MAY have to make a call to not let them get too far up the road. If they only make the catch at Kawaihai on the way back, the Frodo is laughing and can just ride his watts back to Kona. Really this depends on whether it is Frodo out of the water then Kienle out 3 min back and Sanders 4 min back or if it is 5/6 back. The other wild card is wind. I think this hurts Lange more as a lighter athlete. It really should be a blast on race day!
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Rider17] [ In reply to ]
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Rider17 wrote:
1. Frodo repeats (would like to see Gomez dethrone him in time)
2. I hope SB podiums he deserves it. Poor swimmers love to root for him
3. Tim Don. He knows it's the twilight of his career. Still banging on all cylinders and wants to finish big.

sorry Americans. I dont see it.

1. RYF RYF RYF
2. three in contention
3. Lucy Charles. She could be big

Who is "SB"??? Do you mean SK (Kienle) or LS (Sanders)???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Kienle. The b is close to the k on Saturday nights. Fixed it
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Rider17] [ In reply to ]
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Rider17 wrote:
Kienle. The b is close to the k on Saturday nights. Fixed it

Ah, I see, ya, b can be very close to k under certain circumstances. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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1. Frodeno - no weakness. Don't think Kienle can run with him, Sanders/Lange maybe if they came off the bike with him... big ask.
2. Lange
3. Kienle

Women

1. Ryf
2. Crowley
3. Charles.

Can't wait!
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Andrew90] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew90 wrote:
1. Frodeno - no weakness. Don't think Kienle can run with him, Sanders/Lange maybe if they came off the bike with him... big ask.
2. Lange
3. Kienle

Women

1. Ryf
2. Crowley
3. Charles.

Can't wait!

Care to expand on your men's picks & tell us where you think Sanders will end up?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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1. Sanders
2. Keinle
3. Hoffman

Frodo out of top 5......possibly 10

1. Ryf
2. Piampiano
3. Charles
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Re: kona '17 top 3 [Rider17] [ In reply to ]
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Tim Don is a great guy but shouldn't even be in this conversation. No offense.

Frodo will win, barring any mechanical issues on the bike. The guy just seems bullet proof. I'd love either SK and LS to podium.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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