Thank you for calling it what it really is....

The other term is just too stoopid to repeat.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Magnetic flux density would detect a permanent magnet. So, if the motor used an electromagnet, it might be able to fool the testing. But I bet it is pretty freakin' hard to build a small, light, low power motor on an electromagnet.

Yes this. Most small electric motors have a permanent magnet.

So of course the manufacturers of this will shield the motor better, or find a way to run an electromagnet in the stator and the rotor. And the cat and mouse game continues.

Is there a reason WTC must announce this? Could they not just start testing bikes in T2 without telling everybody? They pretty much have full responsibility for your equipment anyway, between check-in and check-out.

It's a gamble on their part: The announcement may deter future cheats, but quietly rolling out this test may catch the ones already committing fraud.

I guess it depends on what they really want. If I were in charge of testing, I'd probably want to catch somebody as proof that my protocol works. (The implication being that it's worth the time and money.)

As the previous post said, this just gives cheaters more information on how to beat the system.

Well shit, there goes my race plan for Texas.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

What, the shortened course wasn't enough for you?

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float , hammer , and jog

The better question is whether they'll be testing for this at AmZof.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

My guess is that they want to start testing and never catch anyone in the act going forward. If they were to test unannounced, and catch say 30 out of 2500 competitors, then one can only assume that similar number of racers have been cheating in previous races prior to this...for who knows how long. I don't think that would help their image as people blame the WTC for everything as it is.

Totally understand and, for the most part, agree.

But just like has happened with the UCI (who WTC is working with/"learning from"), the organization also gets crucified when they don't find anything. Even on this board we talk about what a joke their drug testing protocols are, and how far behind the cheats they are.

So I'm just saying, wouldn't it be good in a way for them to catch the people they say they want to catch, and then prove further down the line that it's been eradicated -- rather than never catching anybody and fostering the notion that triathletes somehow have a straighter moral compass?

Meanwhile we'll be on the boards saying, "You idiots, nobody puts motors in the BB/rear hub anymore. They're shaft-driven, hidden in the head tube and powered by solar panels layered into the carbon top tube. What a waste of money."

They're only looking in the seat tube so give this a try. Throw a wheel cover on it and you're golden.

https://www.kickstarter.com/...e-electric-in-60-sec

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--Chris

For the UCI, or WTC pros, I could understand a more subtle approach to catching cheats. But for AGers, they are paying customers that directly impact their bottom line. Catch an AGer with a motor, ban them for X years and you just lost a paying customer. And more likely, they will be publicly shamed and may give up the sport entirely. Within the AG ranks, I don't think there is so much a need to make an example out of someone as it is just ensuring people that standards for fair play are being implemented.

"Catch an AGer with a motor, ban them for X years and you just lost a paying customer."

take a cavalier attitude to fraud perpetrated at your events, you just lost a lot of paying customers. (see julie miller.)

"And more likely, they will be publicly shamed and may give up the sport entirely."

exactly.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hmm... sort of. The way I see it is that they don't want to lose custom, but have a pretence that they're doing something to shield themselves from criticism. Hence, tell people they'll be checking ahead of the race so fraudsters can sort themselves out, and maybe make an example of one or two who are stupid enough to chance it. If WTC really wanted to catch people, it would be unannounced.

It was previously said that there's only two kinds of athletes who get caught for doping, when there's a reasonable chance that testing will occur: the stupid and those who want to be caught. I think this will apply in the mechanical fraud sphere also.

Anyways, is this really a problem? AG doping I can understand, but mechanical fraud? Really?

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

Huh? It's not a corrupt financial transaction, which the term fraud would imply. This is sports.

"Illegal electro-mechanical assistance", might be a better term.

I'd be really surprised if this wasn't all smoke and mirrors. A distraction of sorts.
I have an electric bike. The straight up TT/Tri bike is faster, except for city stops/ then starts - and hills.

But to get that assistance I have a honking battery and big ass motor on the wheel.
To cram into a TT bike you need energy storage aka battery or a capacitive device.
Then the motor if it's small will be not that great for torque and heat capacity.

More PIA than it's worth. Plus it would weigh a few pounds easy.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

mark barfied (uci tech director) answered it, on the home page now. yes, it detects an idle bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Why not test all the bikes at night, when they're in transition and there's no chance of interference?

they might do that too.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I'm going for a liquid rocket-fuel filled frame with a batmobile style engine. No magnets for them to detect and I won't have to worry about fools drafting me.

Or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKHz7wOjb9w

The Vivax unit that the Belgian cyclist got caught with recently weighs 1.8kg and gives out 200 watts for up to 90 minutes. Assuming that could be tweaked to give ~67 watts for 4.5 hours instead, that is certainly "worth the PIA".

no way will anyone notice that!

^^^^This.

The off-the-shelf solutions use a permanent magnet DC motor. It would take a lot of work to build a non-standard solution just for the purposes of avoiding detection. You might use an inverter-driven AC induction motor as a base.

IMO it's easier to test for unexplained dense areas in the bike tubes when scanning. Also, for the pros tell them that every bike will be inspected (by an approved WTC mechanic and USAT official) while they are out on the run.....that should be enough to keep them from trying anything.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Talked to a our mad scientist engineer here at work and he said that with enough money he could build an undetectable (from mag flux) seattube motor. Generous use of MuMetal shielding. The compromise would be heat buildup and overall reduced power outputs. Essentially a miniaturization, money, and engineering problem only.

Actually, as someone who use to collect things as a kid, I can say first hand that the internet was a blessing for collectibles, but is also brought out counterfeits. Counterfeits killed the market for a lot of things because the items were not special anymore. The same thing applies, if Ironman doesn't go after cheats you are going to have 10x more people quit the sport out of frustration of cheats, than you will from people who have motors who feel they are being targeted.

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now if they can only find a way to start testing for raging narcissism our sport might have a chance of redemption