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indoor ironman world record
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why is there no talk about this?

i don't know the guy personally, but he's a co-worker of a friend of mine. some guy named coach tony R in boston.

apparently he went sub 8 (not sure by now much) for an indoor ironman. regardless of "flatness" and being able to push off the wall, that's quite the accomplishment if legitimate.

anyone know the details regarding splits? a few things i noticed raised yellow flags.

6 min video of the swim was up, i counted a few of the laps and they were in the 20-22s per 25 yards (assuming it's a yard pool since it's a local ymca and they are mostly in yards).

i figured, at that pace we're already 15 minutes behind schedule. transitions should be easier since it's all in one place, so maybe he gains back 5 mins.

his PR marathon is 3:14. looking at the video, he sure didn't seem like he was running a sub 7:30 pace. but videos are deceiving. lets say he runs 3:15. with his swim, that puts him around 4:30....

so he needs to ride a 3:30 to break 7.....

thoughts on whether this is even possible?
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds incredibly difficult. But with nutrition never a step away it would seem to help quite a bit. He could have even started during the swim.

Was the treadmill set at 1% incline? /pink
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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link?

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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I thought the Iron Cowboy was the only one who had claimed to have broken a record by swimming, biking and running indoors

All joking aside someone who runs a 3:14 open marathon has no chance at going sub 8 in an Ironman.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
Last edited by: chuy: Sep 26, 17 18:42
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Re: indoor ironman world record [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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chuy wrote:
I thought the Iron Cowboy was the only one who had claimed to have broken a record by swimming, biking and running indoors

All joking aside someone who runs a 3:14 open marathon has no chance at going sub 8 in an Ironman.

3;14 open marathoner is 3:45 at the fastest for an IM. That leaves only 4:15 remaining to go sub 8. 4:15 is 3 minutes faster than Stadler's Kona bike split record AND you have not even started to swim yet.....so NO, not possible.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with everyone else. Someone with a 3:14 open Marathon is doing really well to break 10:00. What is the protocol for determining a 112 mile indoor bike ride? Do they figure out some adjustment for rider size, weight and aerodynamics?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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So I googled this and here's what I found. Tony Rich claims to have done an 8:19 "indoor ironman". :

http://www.2toms.com/...test-indoor-ironman/


Here's a promotional thing about his 2016 effort:


http://ppmworks.com/...7/Iron-Tony-2016.pdf


Here's where he's fundraising with his 2017 indoor ironman effort:


http://support.ymcaboston.org/...sonal&fr_id=1130

Perhaps I have not looked hard enough but I have not found the 2017 results. (update - see below)

Apparently he is a coach for Training Peaks (or does this just mean he advertises his services there?):

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/tonyrich

And also the head coach of the Boston University Triathlon Team, according to the YMCA bio.

USAT only has 3 results for him ever:

IRONMAN Vineman 7/30/2016 13:26:33.00 72.28
Ironman Lake Placid 7/25/2010 12:43:56.00 73.732
Amica Ironman 70.3 Rhode Island 7/11/2010 06:43:50.00 65.606

And I also found a 2016 IM Mont Tremblant result of 14:24, verified that it is him through race photos.
So needless to say I am VERY skeptical that he ever completed an 8:19 Ironman race, even an indoor one. His PR appears to be 12:43, so almost 5 hours over the claimed mark.

Edit:

The Oak Square YMCA where he completed his world-record indoor ironman in 7:59 shows several videos of him on their facebook page. In their video of the last 11 minutes of the run and the finish he appears to be pretty much walking. https://www.facebook.com/...9-waw7MBDSBdwqIyi9C8

For some reason they keep mentioning the "9-hour" Guiness Book world record on their facebook posts though his promotional material all says 8.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Sep 26, 17 21:34
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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I was in an event with him, also an indoor IM in 2014 I believe - It was a special event largely created to enable a blind athlete to complete the full distance. Tony was there and was a very good competitor. I can't verify anything about the 8 hour thing but based on what I saw of him that day it is possible.

I think you have to factor in some of the advantages of pool push flips and push offs, low resistance settings on the bike and pacing on the treadmill. The one thing I can verify is that he raises a lot of charity money and interest and is a very fit individual.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [tompks] [ In reply to ]
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At Mont Tremblant last year he swam 1:29. Flip turns aren't going to make him swim twice as fast in 45.

And thuogh the hills on the MT bike course certainly contributed to his 7:15 bike split, no reasonable trainer setting will get him over 112 miles in 4:15.

And even if all of the above we're possible, he would then have to run 15 minutes faster than his open Marathon pr to make it under 8, yet video evidence has him walking. Not clipping off 6:45 miles.

It seems like people often try to use raising money for charity as a deflection for this kind of criticism but honestly you cannot buy a world record. Even for a $4000 donation to your local YMCA.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Sep 27, 17 5:37
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Re: indoor ironman world record [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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My guess would be it mainly coming from a freaky bike time. I've noticed that the speed output from my Wahoo Kickr when using TrainerRoad is entirely a function of my cadence and the gear I'm in for example, resistance doesn't come into it. E.g. I think I normally train on the 3rd smallest cog at the back and at a cadence of ~100 then the speed getting fed to my Garmin and/or my Trainerroad app is something like 28mph regardless of resistance. If I was so inclined (I'm not!) then I could pretty easily do a 3:30 IM bike leg on my trainer while barely breaking sweat, I'm sure other trainers can be rigged in the same way.

Zero incline treadmill with perfect pacing and an air conditioned gym should enable you to beat a marathon PR, or at least equal it if allowing for being a little tired from spinning a bike for 3+ hours. And anybody who is competent at tumble turns or even decent open turns is going to PR the swim compared to open water. Add in minimal transition times or time losses for getting nutrition and even a ~13 hour IM guy should be in the right ballpark.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
My guess would be it mainly coming from a freaky bike time. I've noticed that the speed output from my Wahoo Kickr when using TrainerRoad is entirely a function of my cadence and the gear I'm in for example, resistance doesn't come into it. E.g. I think I normally train on the 3rd smallest cog at the back and at a cadence of ~100 then the speed getting fed to my Garmin and/or my Trainerroad app is something like 28mph regardless of resistance. If I was so inclined (I'm not!) then I could pretty easily do a 3:30 IM bike leg on my trainer while barely breaking sweat, I'm sure other trainers can be rigged in the same way.

Zero incline treadmill with perfect pacing and an air conditioned gym should enable you to beat a marathon PR, or at least equal it if allowing for being a little tired from spinning a bike for 3+ hours. And anybody who is competent at tumble turns or even decent open turns is going to PR the swim compared to open water. Add in minimal transition times or time losses for getting nutrition and even a ~13 hour IM guy should be in the right ballpark.


Configuring a trainer so a 7 hour IM bike split guy has his wheel spinning fast enough to turn his odometer to 112 miles in 3:30 would not be considered cheating?? I know it would be impossible for me to do on my kk (or even get close) and I'm a much faster bike rider than this guy.

And even if he did his ironman bike split in "3:30" I still don't believe he could run/walk a pr 3:10 marathon even on a treadmill at 0 degrees. I don't think he could get within 45 minutes of that mark. He still will have done 4:50 of work before starting. His most recent open Marathon was over 4 hours.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Sep 27, 17 6:09
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Re: indoor ironman world record [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
My guess would be it mainly coming from a freaky bike time. I've noticed that the speed output from my Wahoo Kickr when using TrainerRoad is entirely a function of my cadence and the gear I'm in for example, resistance doesn't come into it. E.g. I think I normally train on the 3rd smallest cog at the back and at a cadence of ~100 then the speed getting fed to my Garmin and/or my Trainerroad app is something like 28mph regardless of resistance. If I was so inclined (I'm not!) then I could pretty easily do a 3:30 IM bike leg on my trainer while barely breaking sweat, I'm sure other trainers can be rigged in the same way.

Zero incline treadmill with perfect pacing and an air conditioned gym should enable you to beat a marathon PR, or at least equal it if allowing for being a little tired from spinning a bike for 3+ hours. And anybody who is competent at tumble turns or even decent open turns is going to PR the swim compared to open water. Add in minimal transition times or time losses for getting nutrition and even a ~13 hour IM guy should be in the right ballpark.

No way. Even if you cheat the swim and do the bike in 3 hours....we're talking about the 1:29 swimmer say doing 1 hour in a 10 m pool where he does continuous push offs. So that's 1 hour there....let's say the cheater bike course on the trainer is 3:30. Already at 4:30 overall. He's an open 3:14 marathoner, so 3:45 for the run even at zero percent grade. You're at 8:15 before transitions. So no, not happening even on a full cheater swim-bike scenario.

Good for him raising money for a charity. Perhaps better to raise money saying he is doing an 8 hour indoor three sport workout and matching the average worker's work day doing continuous exercise. Hopefully with that branding he can raise enough money. Lying about doing an Ironman and raising money while lying seems to be what people get pissed about. Ask Lance about that the lying while raising money and doing sport. Fundraising does not get one off the lying hook.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't say it wasn't cheating, just speculating on how somebody could knock 5 hours off their IM time while notionally still completing the distance!
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Re: indoor ironman world record [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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That finish was smoking fast! Definite Sub-8! I look forward to donating vast sums to his next feat: sub-7. He's got the leg speed.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [mark308] [ In reply to ]
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pink?

i noticed it was on a cyclops trainer. i'm assuming he swam about 15 mins faster being in a pool. but looking at the swim video, he was doing 1:30/100 (or slower).

even if he did run a PR. the trainer would have to be set at min resistance. i bet he's not putting out more than 100 watts to go that speed....

good for charity, seems kinda wonky to say you're breaking some kind of world record. he's not on athlinks, but shaving that kind of time off your ironman seems impossible (even if you're indoors) without some kind of mechanical doping on the bike portion.

we're talking speeds that the best cyclist in the world couldn't achieve (3:30 for 112 miles) (32mph)
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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what are the requirements/parameters for validating the world record? Does Guinness even have any? So I can just go setup any trainer and whatever numbers it spits out are fine?
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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I think he would actually need to bike 3:05 or so to make 8:00...... so over 36 mph.

In the swim video, he's at about 1:56/100yd pace. If one is going to do a sub-8 ironman, one is not exhausted at the end of the swim, so we can extrapolate that to about a 1:21:40 for the swim.

Also, in different videos of the run he is on different treadmills. What's that about?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Sep 27, 17 10:26
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Actually I just noticed that in the comments on the swim video they say he did it in 1:18

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: indoor ironman world record [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
chuy wrote:
I thought the Iron Cowboy was the only one who had claimed to have broken a record by swimming, biking and running indoors

All joking aside someone who runs a 3:14 open marathon has no chance at going sub 8 in an Ironman.


3;14 open marathoner is 3:45 at the fastest for an IM. That leaves only 4:15 remaining to go sub 8. 4:15 is 3 minutes faster than Stadler's Kona bike split record AND you have not even started to swim yet.....so NO, not possible.


I know the 30 minute delta between open/IM mary has long been held to be true... but easily...there have to be outliers.

N=1 My Open PR is 3:14 (flat Chicago) and ran a 3:36 IM mary... at Wisconsin, far from a flat course. Now, I guess one could argue that I was potentially considerably better than the 3:14 (did it while tri training, etc)... but PR is the PR.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]
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My IM marathon PR is only 8 min off of my open PR, but I've only done 3 or 4 opens and 3 IMs . I didn't really know race fitness until I was IM fit, and haven't run an open since. Obviously fitness on race day, conditions of the day, and the course are huge factors in that equation. Trying to predict IM or HIM run times off open times is like trying to predict your marathon time off your 1,500m PR.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Funk wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
chuy wrote:
I thought the Iron Cowboy was the only one who had claimed to have broken a record by swimming, biking and running indoors

All joking aside someone who runs a 3:14 open marathon has no chance at going sub 8 in an Ironman.


3;14 open marathoner is 3:45 at the fastest for an IM. That leaves only 4:15 remaining to go sub 8. 4:15 is 3 minutes faster than Stadler's Kona bike split record AND you have not even started to swim yet.....so NO, not possible.



I know the 30 minute delta between open/IM mary has long been held to be true... but easily...there have to be outliers.

N=1 My Open PR is 3:14 (flat Chicago) and ran a 3:36 IM mary... at Wisconsin, far from a flat course. Now, I guess one could argue that I was potentially considerably better than the 3:14 (did it while tri training, etc)... but PR is the PR.

agreed. some people (me) just run better off the bike.

open half 1:31, HIM: 1:32

open marathon: 3:25, IM 3:45

back on topic: i have no idea's regarding the parameters.

if he swam 1:18, let's give him 2 mins to get to the bike. that's 1:20, then give another 3 mins for bathroom break. and 2 mins for t2 and whatever. that's 1:25 before biking. say he runs his pr of 3:15. that puts him at 4:40. he still has to bike 3:19 to go sub 8 (which they claim, from what i read) that he did...

that means he has to go 20 seconds faster than bradley wiggins did during his hour attempt.... for 3 times as long... lol. lets be real. the resistance on the cyclops trainer (dumb trainer) was put at just touching and he was probably riding at >33.88 mph with less than 100 watts.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Oh dear God can we just declare this to be the fraud that it is and move along :-)
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Re: indoor ironman world record [JackL] [ In reply to ]
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JackL wrote:
Oh dear God can we just declare this to be the fraud that it is and move along :-)

fair. i just kinda feel bad calling it fraud when he's doing it for a good cause. unless he's using the good cause to get into the record books...
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Re: indoor ironman world record [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Just to follow up it looks like Guiness did give him the world record for fastest indoor IM distance in 7:59.

https://www.eventhorizon.tv/tony-rich/

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: indoor ironman world record [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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chuy wrote:
Just to follow up it looks like Guiness did give him the world record for fastest indoor IM distance in 7:59.

https://www.eventhorizon.tv/tony-rich/


Sounds like a case for marathon investigation .com guy
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