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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [sevans] [ In reply to ]
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how is it that someone with a conviction for dui and street racing ends up driving a cop car.


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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [cyclisto] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, he is a nice young man. He has more class and compassion than you. He doesn't drink or do drugs, you can rest assured that was no contribution. Just by your postings and hate, he is a much better man than you.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [sfdmnakdfs] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
...he has to live with knowing he took a life everyday, .

yup. that he does.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [l8erg8er] [ In reply to ]
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Nobody really takes a first post from an anonymous person who has just registered very seriously. What you and the person who claims to know the officer because their sister knows him say does not carry any weight for this reason. Nobody has any reason to believe you.

The facts will come out in time. As you weren't there, your assurances are as groundless as the accusations flying around. If you like this person so much your time is better spent with them.

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Lazy Ben] [ In reply to ]
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You don't have to believe me. He has a lot of friends and people who care about him and know him.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [l8erg8er] [ In reply to ]
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That's great. I hope they're not all wasting their time posting on internet forums.

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Lazy Ben] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you care what I do?
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [l8erg8er] [ In reply to ]
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This is a triathlon forum. We don't like to see cyclists killed. This thread is in essence about the loss of the cyclists and the grief of those amongst our number who knew them. The cop is not really the issue at this moment in time and most of us are reserving our judgement until the facts are known.

The cop is getting a bad press. This is to be expected, he did cross the road and hit the cyclists. Some people are jumping to conclusions. This is also to be expected. Any attempt at defence of him at this point is, given that you are not a member of this community, useless.

If he is your friend, I am sure that you can be of more comfort to him doing something else. Unless you actually know what happened (and you don't) you can't assure anyone of anything.

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Lazy Ben] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
This is a triathlon forum. We don't like to see cyclists killed. This thread is in essence about the loss of the cyclists and the grief of those amongst our number who knew them. The cop is not really the issue at this moment in time and most of us are reserving our judgement until the facts are known.
Zackly. Out of deference and respect for the members of the forum who knew and rode with them, can we lock this thread? I don't think they need to see the raging accusations and witch hunting going on while they are trying to deal with the grief and loss.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [MattinSF] [ In reply to ]
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Not to lessen things here...fact is that this police officer is not guilty of anything PRIOR that MOST of the people I know are with certainty guilty of. I have drag raced, I have driven tired (never ever driven intoxicated at all)...but I know many many who have and either made it safe, or got a DUI.

We as a community have had a great loss. But, this guy was ONLY 27. Lets not convict him for prior errors...they have NOTHING to do with the horrible tragidy that occured. We all may want to lay blame and find guilt...is he guilty...if he fell asleap, yes. BUT, he was NOT drag racing and he was NOT DUI at the time. Every one deserves a second, third, forth chance...tell me that you all have not gotton another chance at something.

Not to take away the heavy burdon of what happened, nor the pain of the survivors.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I think that is a most excellent idea. This forum is posted for the world to see on an online newspaper article as a link. People of all wakes of life, and opinion, are reading the things that are being said, and are grieving in their own way. If there is a criteria that needs to be met in order to become a member...that should be specified.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I usually mind my own P & Q's here..... but I need to put this out there because I'm a bit lost a one big fact in this tragedy....

Cop said he must have dozed off and that is what supposedly caused him to drive across the road causing this senseless tragedy.

We're all taught (or so I think)... if we're driving along day or night and are tired (and can't make it to our destination), we should pull over and get off the road, right?Sleep until we can continue without causing harm to other drivers and ourselves.... etc...

So, if this officer was so tired and couldn't keep his eyes open, why didn't he pull over and get off the road? Why did he keep going? He had to have known well before dozing off that he was coming close to having to close his eyes even for a second.....

I don't know the area where this happened (whether is was close to his HQ's or not)....and why he didn't take precaution when he felt the need to close his eyes....

Maybe I'm just wondering out loud. I just can't figure it out.....I just can not figure it out......
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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"Every one deserves a second, third, forth chance...tell me that you all have not gotton another chance at something. "


Cool! Doing wrong automatically guarantees you a second, third, forth chance!
Just with the sorry excuse that we all make mistakes, so nobody should be held responsible for their errors/mistakes?
Freebies for all?
Sounds like we don't really need rules of society and it's laws! Just let it sort out itself by survival of the fittest and meanest.

Where do I sign up?

___________________________________________
Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [elle585] [ In reply to ]
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1. Yes, it is a tragedy. I feel awful for everyone.

2. I'm no shrink and I'm no lawyer, but let's not forget that it is *** alleged *** because of a hearsay comment that he used the term 'dozed off' in an attempt to rationalize what might have happened, while he was obviously in a state of mind because of an extremely disturbing circumstance that very few people will ever (fortunately) have the opportunity to experience. Maybe he did but maybe he didn't.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [aeroTRInamics] [ In reply to ]
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yes, true... I agree....

and if he didn't doze off, we're now facing the question of what DID cause him to cross the centre lines and hitting the 3 riders?

what was he really doing ? what was he really doing that could have caused such a horrific accident?

i know evidence will play a part in finding out the answers (if he doesn't come forth and admit to what he was doing or did).

i just muddle over it day in and day out because to me, it makes no sense... that's all.

i'm not by any means, angry at anyone on this forum for their opinions on what they post. i'm just looking at the situation from where i sit and ask myself these questions (maybe too much).

ride safe everyone! and wear your helmets!
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [elle585] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not from SF and don't know what the road is like but,...

1. from reading the description of the accident the speed at impact must have been substantial, was this on an incline?

2. prior convictions aside, dozing off 4 hours into a shift seems unlikely. As someone who has been around cop cars (never inside though, fraternity brothers and frat parties!) the radio is always going and extremely loud. If that is soothing enough to put one to sleep then he was extremely tired and should have called in sick.

3. They should check the in car computer (laptop) to see if he was surfing the net while driving, just a hunch?


We can't bring them back, but we can try to keep others safe.
I think we all owe that to them, so lets move on with a new thread of ideas for improving cyclist visibility and overall awareness.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Ice_Alchemist] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, Matt, Kristy and Christopher were coming downhill, the deputy up. There were no skidmarks, no signs of an attempt to stop.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Katy] [ In reply to ]
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the diagram appears to show the opposite, the deputry was coming downhill and riders traveling uphill.
http://www.sfgate.com/...2&type=printable



Nor do I use punctuation in the way a child sprinkles glitter over a ribbon of glue on construction paper - Trash Talk
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [lesson989] [ In reply to ]
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No, you're reading it wrong. Uphill/downhill as labeled on that diagram are correct, but refer to East /West. The road runs North/ South. There is also a downhill grade going South. Matt and Kristy were traveling South, downhill.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Last edited by: Katy: Mar 12, 08 22:07
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Ice_Alchemist] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe he was running a plate on his SCMOD....




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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Last edited by: ~.!: Mar 12, 08 22:11
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [~.!] [ In reply to ]
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hey. what's with the ~.!?
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [cyclisto] [ In reply to ]
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hey. what's with the ~.!?
That is another thread! Need to change it back! I however think your new ST name should be "`~^"

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [~.!] [ In reply to ]
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record10carbon is way cooler.

didja see the latest legal strategy? blame it on fatigue....i think he was drunk.

http://www.sfgate.com/...VVIOS9.DTL&tsp=1
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [Ice_Alchemist] [ In reply to ]
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I took five photos near the accident during my ride this morning. It's a very slight incline/decline and the maximum speed limit on this road is 35 on the straight sections. All of the paint on the road used by the police to mark locations was on the rider's side of the road.
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Re: holy shit. cops kill 2 cyclists!! [elle585] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
We're all taught (or so I think)... if we're driving along day or night and are tired (and can't make it to our destination), we should pull over and get off the road, right?Sleep until we can continue without causing harm to other drivers and ourselves.... etc...

So, if this officer was so tired and couldn't keep his eyes open, why didn't he pull over and get off the road? Why did he keep going? He had to have known well before dozing off that he was coming close to having to close his eyes even for a second.....

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I think that the thought process would go something like this:

"I'm tired and I need a nap."
"I'd like to pull over and take a nap, but I'm at work. "
"I don't want to get fired. "
"Oh yeah, remember in briefing a few weeks ago where Bob got chewed out by the Sargent when a citizen saw him sleeping on the side of the road? "
"Must stay awake."
"Only another hour or so until lunch..."


I get tired at work also. I really wish I could take a nap, but then I don't want to get fired either so I drink coffee or something. If I fall asleep at the keyboard the nobody is going to get hurt, so I've got that going for me. But the cop is a strange situation where the right thing is also the wrong thing. It would have been the right thing to pull over and take a 10 minute cat nap. It would have saved two lives and not ruined his life. But I can see the perceived pressure that to pull over and sleep is a bad thing.

Think of it this way. How would 99.99% of the public react to seeing a cop car pulled over with a sleeping driver in it? They would be pissed about their tax dollars being wasted, etc. They would think he was lazy, not that he was tired and trying to avoid an accident.

The cop made a huge mistake. He made some poor choices, but I think it was all subtle, slippery slope kind of stuff. I suspect that he is a good person who was just trying to do his job. He made a small miscalculation that had enormous consequences. Now two innocent people are dead, his life is ruined and many other innocents were greatly affected. I think that a majority of people have made similar choices and were just luckier than the officer. Not that he doesn't need to pay for his mistake though. Not by any means...

As a side note, I've read some stuff that claimed there are statistics that say the days immediately after the time change have much higher accident rates. The officer's 6am shift was really a 5am shift on his body clock so he was already down one hour of sleep compared to normal.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
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