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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [TShifty] [ In reply to ]
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try magnesium think there is product called magnesium calm.....u need it in your diet too....
Last edited by: tyrod1: Nov 27, 15 4:31
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [TShifty] [ In reply to ]
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Wow! You described my sleep patterns to a T. I'm in bed by 9:30 at the latest, up at 4:20-4:30am every day, doing workouts from 5-6:30am usually. I sleep until around 1-2am, then have to get up to pee, and then toss and turn until wake-up time. I'm 51 years old and have been having this problem as long as I can remember...probably over a decade at least.

Looked into sleep apnea after my wife told me I stop breathing for short periods and snore a lot (which she luckily sleeps right through). Started using two pillows to jack up my head which helped a little with how deeply I sleep for those first 4 hours, but that's about it. I go through most days okay, but start getting tired/cranky in the early evening.

I do everything wrong though. I eat more sugar than I should, but nothing after dinnertime (around 6pm) and get off the computer after work, so who knows. I don't really want to become a "pill taker", but maybe that's my next step.

Hope you find some relief!

------------------
My business-eBodyboarding.com
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [TShifty] [ In reply to ]
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If this pattern is bothering you, seriously consider getting a sleep study for sleep apnea. I posted about this elsewhere, but it's a real thing, and is surprisingly common in males once we get older.

I had the same 3-4 hr max sleep pattern, and it just got worse as I got older. It wasn't until it got to the point where it was disrupting my life that I got a sleep study, and turns out I have severe sleep apnea. I don't have any of the risk factors for sleep apnea - slim, trim, no big neck, in shape, but I saw the graphs myself, and it's unequivocal - I just stop breathing as REM kicks in, which is at about the 3-4 mark of sleeping, explaining my apnea.

No sleep aids could help this. I just ended up waking up at 3-4hrs feeling even MORE tired, and unable to get back to sleep, as my body wouldn't let me sleep through suffocation.

My wife and I also had a kid a few years ago, and I erroneously blamed the poor sleep on the kid, when in reality, it was the sleep apnea. I only realized this when my sleep just got worse after my baby was sleeping through the night.

Melatonin did nothing for me, no surprise there - doctors aren't trained to prescribe it as a regular sleep aid because it's not clear if it even works compared to placebo.

The CPAP machine hasn't totally fixed my sleep, but for sure, I can sleep close to normal, and actually get more than 4 hours in a row. My only issue with the CPAP is that my apnea is so bad that the air from the machine is so powerful when I'm in apnea that I get woken up from a dry throat or if the air forces my throat open with a loud noise that wakes me up. So not a perfect fix by any stretch, but it was eye opening to see that I actually could sleep more than 4 hours if I was getting enough air.
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [cshowe80] [ In reply to ]
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cshowe80 wrote:

"Take sleeping as serious as other ventures in your life, it's not just the interlude between doing things"


I think this is an understatement...I feel like your sleep is more serious than other ventures in your life, because more often than not success in those other things depends on getting enough sleep. Tired bodies and brains don't function properly. There's a reason terrorist organizations (and the CIA in Homeland) use sleep deprivation to torture people and wear them down, to force them into giving in/giving up. Sleep deprivation can and will drive you crazy: it disrupts your mood regulation, ruins your emotional wherewithal/resilience, undermines your sense of identity, and eventually induces psychosis. Sure, this is at the extreme, but you'd be surprised by how many Americans are chronically sleep deprived, including endurance athletes, and how many underperform because of it. Along with nutrition and exercise, your sleep is a cornerstone of your physical health and your mental health, which are on the same continuum anyways.

I've been crushing my sleep game for a couple months after essentially not sleeping for two years, and I'm in the best shape of my life despite training fewer hours and at lower intensity. To add some do's and do not's to what other people have said and to contradict some advice you've received above...

1) Sleep in a completely dark room. Blackout shades to extinguish any light coming in from the windows. Electrical tape over any ambient light sensors on clocks, cable boxes, speakers, etc. Door skirt and closed door. Make sure it's completely blacked out in your room.
2) Make sure it's cool but not cold. The ideal temperature for sleep is between 70 to 73 degrees. This will probably feel cool, especially in the summer, but it's worth the electric bill to get higher quality sleep.
3) As much as possible, make sure it's completely quiet. No ticking clocks. Get rid of the window'd air conditioners (I realize this can be a problem vis a vis #2...install central air then). Kick out the pets, even
4) DO NOT take hypnotics (the 'z drugs'...ambien, lunesta, etc.) or benzodiazepines (xanax, ativan, valium, klonopin, etc.). Not once, not occasionally, not ever. Any doctor prescribing this shit for anything but an acute panic attack ought to lose his/her medical license. For every person who claims to take these poison pills 'a few times a month', there are a dozen who have become chronically addicted and developed a hideous tolerance to what is only a temporary antidote sustainable only by increasing the dosage. lt's a vicious cycle, a horrible way to treat yourself, and it only ends in fail. Get started down this path and your problems with sleep and in every area of your life can and will become much, much worse.
5) Figure out if early morning awakening is correlated with some other trend in your physical or mental health...overtraining, depression, interpersonal strife, career-related stress/anxiety etc.

Also, consider using a sleep monitor/activity tracker or your 920XT to help you quantify and understand the impacts of your sleep quality/quantity (or lack thereof). I've added sleep data to my training log as a key metric to help me properly apply/understand training stimuli. When I underperform in my training, more often than not it's because my 7-day moving average for sleep has dropped below 7 or 7.5 hours. When that happens, I reduce exercise and put more effort into sleep (this is something I, and many others, legitimately have to work at!). /rant over
Last edited by: kileyay: Nov 28, 15 13:04
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
cshowe80 wrote:

"Take sleeping as serious as other ventures in your life, it's not just the interlude between doing things"


I think this is an understatement...I feel like your sleep is more serious than other ventures in your life, because more often than not success in those other things depends on getting enough sleep. Tired bodies and brains don't function properly. There's a reason terrorist organizations (and the CIA in Homeland) use sleep deprivation to torture people and wear them down, to force them into giving in/giving up. Sleep deprivation can and will drive you crazy: it disrupts your mood regulation, ruins your emotional wherewithal/resilience, undermines your sense of identity, and eventually induces psychosis. Sure, this is at the extreme, but you'd be surprised by how many Americans are chronically sleep deprived, including endurance athletes, and how many underperform because of it. Along with nutrition and exercise, your sleep is a cornerstone of your physical health and your mental health, which are on the same continuum anyways.

I've been crushing my sleep game for a couple months after essentially not sleeping for two years, and I'm in the best shape of my life despite training fewer hours and at lower intensity. To add some do's and do not's to what other people have said and to contradict some advice you've received above...

1) Sleep in a completely dark room. Blackout shades to extinguish any light coming in from the windows. Electrical tape over any ambient light sensors on clocks, cable boxes, speakers, etc. Door skirt and closed door. Make sure it's completely blacked out in your room.
2) Make sure it's cool but not cold. The ideal temperature for sleep is between 70 to 73 degrees. This will probably feel cool, especially in the summer, but it's worth the electric bill to get higher quality sleep.
3) As much as possible, make sure it's completely quiet. No ticking clocks. Get rid of the window'd air conditioners (I realize this can be a problem vis a vis #2...install central air then). Kick out the pets, even
4) DO NOT take hypnotics (the 'z drugs'...ambien, lunesta, etc.) or benzodiazepines (xanax, ativan, valium, klonopin, etc.). Not once, not occasionally, not ever. Any doctor prescribing this shit for anything but an acute panic attack ought to lose his/her medical license. For every person who claims to take these poison pills 'a few times a month', there are a dozen who have become chronically addicted and developed a hideous tolerance to what is only a temporary antidote sustainable only by increasing the dosage. lt's a vicious cycle, a horrible way to treat yourself, and it only ends in fail. Get started down this path and your problems with sleep and in every area of your life can and will become much, much worse.
5) Figure out if early morning awakening is correlated with some other trend in your physical or mental health...overtraining, depression, interpersonal strife, career-related stress/anxiety etc.

Also, consider using a sleep monitor/activity tracker or your 920XT to help you quantify and understand the impacts of your sleep quality/quantity (or lack thereof). I've added sleep data to my training log as a key metric to help me properly apply/understand training stimuli. When I underperform in my training, more often than not it's because my 7-day moving average for sleep has dropped below 7 or 7.5 hours. When that happens, I reduce exercise and put more effort into sleep (this is something I, and many others, legitimately have to work at!). /rant over


I am going to look into using the sleep activity tracker on the 920xt….Ive got some friends who also use this. Thank you!
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [TShifty] [ In reply to ]
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This always happens to me when I'm overdoing it. Melatonin helps a lot but the general sign for me is to back it off for some serious rest (may not just be the training, but the training in addition to everything).
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
This always happens to me when I'm overdoing it. Melatonin helps a lot but the general sign for me is to back it off for some serious rest (may not just be the training, but the training in addition to everything).

I agree…over doing it can effect sleep and many other things. Took a day off and relaxed…slept a little better the past few days. Hoping it continues.
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [logella] [ In reply to ]
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Sleep is a glorious luxury for me. I'm certainly no fan of taking pills but sleep, even half the time, is worth it for me.

Even with a melatonin I was up 3 times last night and woke (for lack of better term) this morning, thinking "just 8 more hours and I'd be fine".

Today will be another challenging one at the office I think :-(

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
JSully wrote:
Brushman wrote:
1. No evening workouts.
2. No caffeine, chocolate, candy/sugar, sports/energy drinks after 2pm in afternoon.
3. Reduce life stress, family, work, social, etc.
4. Consistent bedtime every night.
5. No radio/tv distractions while sleeping.
6. No computer/phone interaction 2 hrs. before sleep time.


7. Have more sex


With myself or someone else?

Whichever is quicker and more time efficient. Cant be cutting into workout time.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [TShifty] [ In reply to ]
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There's too much training/stress and not enough recovery.. what is your training look like and are you getting 1000000 calories and 50 gallons of water per day????? More is not necessarily more
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [eggplantOG] [ In reply to ]
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eggplantOG wrote:
There's too much training/stress and not enough recovery.. what is your training look like and are you getting 1000000 calories and 50 gallons of water per day????? More is not necessarily more

I am only going to do 2 brick workouts this week and increase my calorie intake….I drink plenty of water as is. Im hoping this changes something!
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [logella] [ In reply to ]
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Avoid TV and phone. The lights screw with your sleep cycles.
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I have to agree about getting checked for sleep apnea. while it maybe a small percentage of the population, those who do suffer, suffer a lot!

I had no idea until I got tested after GF told me I snore like a pig, and turned out I choke for air about 39x an hour !!! CPAP fixed it and I cant imagine sleeping with out it. it might not be you, but worth checking it out
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [edm-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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edm-tri-guy wrote:
I have to agree about getting checked for sleep apnea. while it maybe a small percentage of the population, those who do suffer, suffer a lot!

I had no idea until I got tested after GF told me I snore like a pig, and turned out I choke for air about 39x an hour !!! CPAP fixed it and I cant imagine sleeping with out it. it might not be you, but worth checking it out

Mine clocked in at 62x per hour during REM. And my wife has never noticed me snoring loudly, only sporadically softly when my head gets stuck in a weird position. I just seem to have a combo of a really collapsible airway and super slow respiration rates in REM. I actually can't relax my throat the way it does in apnea - when I get awoken by it with the machine on sometimes, I feel the air buzzing through my neck but the moment I wake up, it 'pops' back to normal.

It's really insidious. I'm the last person to go for medical overdiagnosis, and I really didn't want to believe it myself, but it really does affect people that don't fit the typical risk profile, even athletes.
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Re: Trouble sleeping through the night [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure what the "trick" was so far however I've been sleeping for longer periods at a time. I still haven't slept completely through the night but much better than up every hour on the hour.

I still do 2 a days (workouts) 3 times a week but that doesn't seem to bother me as of now. I think my body may have been adjusting to the significant increase in training. I did have a strong running background but wasn't swimming in the morning and running/biking at night as well. This week I've even used the pool before work and then run/bike in the evening and take a gym strength class after. Maybe my body is just more "tired" so I sleep better but I'd like to believe that its settling in and sleep is going to come easier for me ;-)
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