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Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read
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Have a BHAG to hopefully do UM Aus in 2017 ( as I live in Sthn hemisphere). Next year have some other plans ( with that goal in mind) and my qualifying race; have done 7 IMs ( range of 11.26-12.30- helps to eat more than 4 gels+ a few cups of coke in an IM lol -) , many multi day tri camps with cycling focus so I know I can back things up day to day and also qualifying time not an issue.

Run is my strength, bike is OK and improved a lot after a winter on trainer road. Im swim times ~ 1.10-1.12

I work a 32 hr week, no kids, 1 dog. Age 41, 161cm and 57 kg :-) If that helps.

Main q's I have are:-

- What does the training look like compared to IM training ? For an IM I'd do 18-20 hr weeks , not sure I could squeeze out much more volume.

- Should I start building my swim endurance now ( UM Aus is in ~ 18 months )??

- For those who have done any UM race, did you stack back to back big bike rides?

- Any good blogs to read of participants where I may get some advice and ideas.

Thanks in advance STers.
Last edited by: velolassie: Nov 21, 15 19:36
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Re: Ultraman Aus 2017?? Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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A few thoughts below.

Disclaimer: I have not raced UM, but I have done similar events.

velolassie wrote:
Have a BHAG to hopefully do UM Aus in 2017 ( as I live in Sthn hemisphere). Next year have some other plans ( with that goal in mind) and my qualifying race; have done 7 IMs ( range of 11.26-12.30- helps to eat more than 4 gels+ a few cups of coke in an IM lol -) , many multi day tri camps with cycling focus so I know I can back things up day to day and also qualifying time not an issue.

Run is my strength. That's a good place to be starting from. Even more so than IM, this is where big chunks of time can be lost.

bike is OK and improved a lot after a winter on trainer road. Become comfortable on your bike and at one with your saddle.

Im swim times ~ 1.10-1.12 Going from 3.8km to 10km is surprisingly easy.

I work a 32 hr week, no kids, 1 dog. Age 41, 161cm and 57 kg :-) If that helps.

Main q's I have are:-

- What does the training look like compared to IM training ? For an IM I'd do 18-20 hr weeks , not sure I could squeeze out much more volume.
Target key sessions. Long rides, long runs, long swims. Become comfortable and familiar with 300 km rides and 80 km runs. Obviously there is no need to do these sessions every week, but I would be looking at a couple a month. It's great that you have given yourself plenty of time to gradually build up. Target some intermediate race goals between now and May 2017 to keep you motivated.

Running some shorter ultras (50 to 100 km) will help prepare your body and brain. You'll learn more about running UM distances from ultra runners than triathletes. It's bread and butter for them.

- Should I start building my swim endurance now ( UM Aus is in ~ 18 months )??
Your swim endurance will come quickly and easily. My IM swim time has been similar to yours in recent years. Earlier this year, I gave myself 4 months to prepare for a 10 km ocean swim, on a max of 3 swims/week. After about 5 weeks my weekly long swim was 6km, but I had the opportunity to join other swimmers for a 10km training swim in the ocean. I managed comfortably, as did a friend with an IM/ultra running background who hadn't swum further than about 5km before. I'm sure it will be a similar experience for you.

- For those who have done any UM race, did you stack back to back big bike rides?
I just rode when I could. Everywhere. To and from work, to and from training sessions, to and from races.

- Any good blogs to read of participants where I may get some advice and ideas.

Thanks in advance STers.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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For UMFL my training went like this:

Friday after work - long pool swim, increasing 1/2 mile each week. Started at .5 mile, maxed out at 5 miles.
Saturday - get up and ride the trainer. Started at 4 hours, increased an hour each week. Maxed out at 12 hours.
Sunday - long run. For a 6 week period I ran between 25 and 35 miles each Sunday in one run. For the 10 weeks before the race, I ran maybe 5 times.

My longest weekend was 5 miles in the pool on Friday night, 12 hours on the trainer on Saturday, and a half marathon running on Sunday. I exercised for 22 out of 32 hours between the time I left work on Friday and noon on Sunday.

That weekend was 6 weeks before UMFL and I did pretty much nothing after that. I did a total of 5 miles swimming, 6 hours biking and 15 miles running in the 6 weeks between that max weekend and race day.

I also did not train on any other days of the week; just on the weekends. My goal was only to finish each day, which I did.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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I did a self-supported Ultraman a few weeks ago and documented all of it here http://www.zentriathlon.com/...ith-john-hirsch.html and here http://www.zentriathlon.com/home/2015/11/19/zentri-609-malte-bruns-and-ultrababy-part-2.html

Peak training was about 22 hours a week, 11 or so Ironmans under my belt and about 10 years of long course tri training leading up to it.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions. Would love to help!

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Ive done Ultraman Florida as well as other Ultra triathlons. The advice given to you above is good, what you also need to start thinking during multi day events such as this one is recovery. Unlike Ironman where you start the morning fresh and ready to go ,during Ultraman on day 2 and 3 you will have to start the morning tired. This is where doing back to back long trainings will help you. Stacking back to back long rides, or long ride followed by long run the next day is crucial. You must get your body used to going while its tired. You also need to start trying to figure out what helps you recover best. I know that during training in between my long workouts i would experiment to see what worked for me so that by the time I raced Ultraman i had it dialed in. There are Ultraman forums and groups on FB that are super helpful. One of the best things about this race are the people involved, just post any other questions you have there and you will find a lot of people willing to help.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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My 2016 plan is to do UM Florida and UM Hawaii. I have a blog. You tell me what you'd find interesting and I will do my best to share info:

- I could do a recap of what training I do (weekly, every 2 weeks, monthly?)
- I will of course do some race day posts and a race report after the event

I'm trying to decide if blog updates are the only way to go, or perhaps also creating a dedicated FB page for shorter, possibly more random updates. Maybe both.
Tell me what you would find useful and I'll try and do it.

Right now, the plan is to do a few things differently to IM training:
Bike - much more polarized approach. Long, steady (7 hour) rides whenever I can fit them in (will be indoors for UMFL), but also shorter high intensity when appropriate
Swim - same as IM training except more volume - with that volume coming from at least one BIG swim day per week (1 x 10k or 2 x 5k)
Run - just more volume. I'm shooting for 100 miles per week but I'd be satisfied with 60. In addition to more volume I'll do back-to-back long runs (20/20 building up to 20/30)

Having said all of that, I'm an ultraman rookie so take my info with a pinch of salt. But that's part of the fun - I get to try out some new training ideas! Perhaps you'll benefit in 2017 from my mistakes in 2016 ;-)

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
Last edited by: robgray: Nov 23, 15 8:41
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [Ironfan] [ In reply to ]
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Ironfan wrote:
My longest weekend was 5 miles in the pool on Friday night, 12 hours on the trainer on Saturday, and a half marathon running on Sunday. I exercised for 22 out of 32 hours between the time I left work on Friday and noon on Sunday.

Not sure that adds up?

If you ran 2 hours for the half marathon, that means you swam at 1km/hr for 8 hours? Or if you swam 5 miles in 3 hours, you "ran" 7 hours for the 13 miles?
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [Ironfan] [ In reply to ]
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12 hour trainer rides. Holy fuck.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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i did Ultra520k Canada this year (previously UM Canada). i have done 8 IMs, my average training was in 18-24hrs a week and mainly at the weekend. Stacking for the run was the most imprtant thing i learned. This would look like 2 runs on a friday, 20k each, 2 runs on sat around 20k each and then either a long run sunday 30k or 2*15km. this is alot easier on the body and is also easier on the mind, i could fit in before and after work and then morning and evening at the weekend, I did this twice with the last one about 5 weeks before the race. On the bike i had 2 long weekend of outdoor cycling 3 days ( 8 hrs, 10 hrs and 6hrs). the longest i ran before the event was a 50km and that was fine and i didnt suffer moving to 85k on the day. The key is to go at an easy pace and the legs will last. i swam 3 times a week usually around 5k at a time, there was an occasional 6/7 and 1 10. Again this was fine to do the swim in 4 hrs even which included stopping every km to eat and drink.
The main obstacles for me were mechanical, lots of punctures and ripped tyres and gut issues by day 3..but it was an amazing experience, full of amazing competitors and crew and i loved every minute of the event
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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I really enjoy the detail of your blog.

I think the FB page would also be a good idea. Keep me posted, I am interested!

Good luck!


Love the Pain!

Quito-Ecuador
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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One last thing and im sure that everyone that has done Ultraman will agree with me on this is the importance of your crew. You have no idea how much you will depend on your crew for everything. When I raced florida it was my crew that would give me heads up on the bike/run as to the distance before turns and where i was supposed to go. This helped me out so much in not getting lost (sadly some other athletes did get off course). Reminding you to eat up, getting everything prepped, keeping your motivation high and even pacing. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the people that you will pick to crew for you. Make sure you meet with your crew before the race to go over your plan a, plan b, plan c, etc. Your crew can be so much more helpful if they know in advance what you want and need.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to say the same. I thought I was some kind of hero doing a 5 hr ride on the trainer. 12 hours on the trainer is as unfathomable to me as the notion of racing a 200 mile running race.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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velolassie wrote:
Have a BHAG to hopefully do UM Aus in 2017 ( as I live in Sthn hemisphere). Next year have some other plans ( with that goal in mind) and my qualifying race; have done 7 IMs ( range of 11.26-12.30- helps to eat more than 4 gels+ a few cups of coke in an IM lol -) , many multi day tri camps with cycling focus so I know I can back things up day to day and also qualifying time not an issue.

Run is my strength, bike is OK and improved a lot after a winter on trainer road. Im swim times ~ 1.10-1.12

I work a 32 hr week, no kids, 1 dog. Age 41, 161cm and 57 kg :-) If that helps.

Main q's I have are:-

- What does the training look like compared to IM training ? For an IM I'd do 18-20 hr weeks , not sure I could squeeze out much more volume.

- Should I start building my swim endurance now ( UM Aus is in ~ 18 months )??

- For those who have done any UM race, did you stack back to back big bike rides?

- Any good blogs to read of participants where I may get some advice and ideas.

Thanks in advance STers.

Basically you are looking at 18 months or so. What you do now should look different than what you would do in specific phase.

Also really depends on the athlete. We looked at it more like a 3 day stage race than one big event.

Swim: Depending on what kind of swimmer you are you may not need to do the distance in training. We had only two long swims of 7 and around 8km with some intensity, but lots of shorter intensity sets of 4-6km. She was about an hour IM swimmer. Sessional volume is not as important as weekly volume, personal opinion that 6km with lots of intensity has way more value than 10km steady, unless you want to cover the distance once or twice for mental reasons.

Bike: Lots of Volume combined with intensity, basically we took some intensity on the run and put it on the bike. With UM (IMO but depending on the athlete) there is more room to move or execute perhaps a slightly higher % of threshold power than the IM. Again longest workout was 230 km but lots of shorter 4-5 hour rides with intervals or overall pretty high intensity. Also a certain amount of shorter work that you might call traditional FTP stuff.

Run: For sure no need to cover the distance, longest run was 46km but there were some back to back long run days, or Sat/mon longer combos. For the run you need to understand basic speed, IE a working knowledge of how fast you are. After that you want really good durability.

Basically in terms of putting it all together we had some big (really big) weekends with pretty high recovery in between, IE High modulation of training stress or load.

As someone else mentioned the crew is EXTREMELY important, having a crew plan laid out several weeks in advance, with lots of contingency etc.

Maurice
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Train a bit more than you would for an Ironman, go quite a bit slower on race day(s), and become a master of overnight recovery. What worked for me was weighing myself each morning and night during the event and making sure I lost zero weight. I started day three at the exact same weight as when I started day one. That kept me hydrated and full of calories. Which was critical because I lost 10 lbs in the heat of day three. Imagine if I lost that 10 lbs on top of losing weight the previous days! And go to bed with a full water bottle and plate of cookies or pizza or whatever on your bedstand each night. That way you can roll over and drink and eat with no effort.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone for your input, very much appreciated. My coach thinks i would be able to do it no problem but I wanted to get a feel for it.

Brett- I listen to your podcast so I will def email you a q. I live in NZ so always chuckle when you talk about your hornet juice coming all the way from here with NZ stamps on it!


I may post some more q's when I have them, thanks ST peeps :-)
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Oh wow, cool! What a small world. I'm honored to be able to help you out. And definitely seek out tips from multiple finishers, too. I can only imagine how much wiser they are than me.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Velolassie!

Awesome to hear about your new goal. I'm pretty familiar with Ultraman (from a safe coaching distance :-) as I worked with Mike Coughlin for Ultraman Canada & both his UM Hawaii races.

In answer to your qu, esp. this time around, Mike's training wasn't a whole lot different to 'regular Ironman training' or regular tri-training for that matter. I don't think you need to deviate too far from your basic week with a couple of small exceptions...

Keys from my perspective...

* Strength & Mobility Work - The swim is very tough on upper body & core (being prone for that long). The run is a big challenge to muscular endurance. 'Legs rather than lungs' are the end of race limiter. I would advise placing a strong emphasis on strength work across the whole body.

* Nutrition throughout the event is key (& a bit of a different skill to fueling a 1 day race).

* Multi-day simulations. Rehearsing nutrition & the general race pattern over slightly shorter distances (with some long events thrown in as one of the days - Ultra or regular Marathon on Day 3 of a big 3 day 'block') helped a lot with the 'what to expect' stuff. Both physically and mentally. Maintaining focus is a key challenge.

* Support crew - Can't overstate the value & importance of a prepared, experienced crew - recon, bike maintenance, nutrition, heat management, psychological counseling :-) All important!

Anyhow, the above is the salient stuff that sprang to mind when I saw your new goal. Awesome, btw, I would join you if I was a touch more brave :-)

Hope all is well in NZ.

Best,

AC

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Nov 26, 15 19:00
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [Alan Couzens] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks AC!!

I have been working really hard on my biking and also managed to lean out a little after a nutritional overhaul so my watts/kg are v slowly improving, I still strength train once a week ( minimum) after the importance all you folks at EC placed on it. But will certainly look to more upper body stuff. I like my gym sessions :-)

Just the 10km of ocean swimming that petrifies me, esp at Noosa Heads. It could be calm or it could be a bit surfy but there's only one way to tackle my fears!

I guess a May race is not ideal when you have just emerged from a Colorado winter..... !

Hope alls well in BoCo,

Cheers,
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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From what I remember of chasing you up a certain climb in Utah, I don't think your w/kg needed much work :-)

I'd be bumping that strength work up to 2-3x pw, esp if you enjoy it. Any extra strength won't go to waste in UM.

Would definitely also have a think about a couple of trips across the Tasman to get comfortable with the long OW stuff. From what I remember of swimming in NZ, a couple of hours in Christchurch water & they'd have to chip the ice off you to set you free :-)

Best of luck on your quest. Don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of any help.

AC.

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Nov 27, 15 17:09
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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My experience is a decade old now, but came 4th at Ultraman Hawaii in 2004. My opinion:


Training for Ultraman is very similar to Ironman training with a few key differences:
1) Do not underestimate the swim. Get in at least 3 sessions of 8-10km in the 10weeks before the race. Ideally ride for 2-5hrs right after to test your stomach and race day nutrition.

2) Build resiliency on the run. Run a lot 6-9 runs a week. Every other weekend do something like a long run on Saturday (2-3hrs) and then a second long run on Sunday (90min-2hrs). Run lots of hills.

3) Don't overdue the long stuff. Lots of 4-6hr rides with a few epic 200-300km rides in the last 8 weeks. I think 8hr rides every weekend is a mistake and will only suppress your immune system.

4) Practical strength training. Hills on the run and Hills/ Big Gear low cadence work on the bike.

5) Test your nutrition plan on every long session.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [velolassie] [ In reply to ]
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Here is my race report from Ultra 520K Texas (2 months ago): Warning- it’s long
http://www.houstontriathloncoach.com/...0k-texas-race-report

My experience: 12 Ironman races (normally 10:30ish-12 hours depending on training)
I didn’t do anything really different from good IM training and actually signed up the day after IM Boulder 8 weeks before the race. All my max volumes were leading up to Boulder.

Swim: never swam more than 2.4 but got in some good hard back to back swims. But I did do 4 swims in 2 day covering 10K.

Bike: Did a couple 15 hour weeks. Longest ride 5 hours

Run: I had very low volume all year due to Achilles issues. Highest volume was 32 miles in a week. This is funny because that is exactly how many miles I made it before hitting the wall in the double marathon. Lots of walking after that point but was able to make it.

Nutrition- was dialed in from IM racing and was even better because my crew kept track of everything.

Crew- I had an awesome crew. Each had specific jobs and the more I trusted them the better I did.

What I would do different- Since I had limited running volume I would have actually practiced walking fast for long periods of time.

If I were to do it again hopefully I could train for the running more.

By no means is this the best plan but it got me to the finish line. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions or anything more specific.
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [trifit] [ In reply to ]
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Man, I saw that course and the time of year here in Texas and said "no thanks." You're a beast for finishing that thing. Great write up!

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Ultraman - Qs on training+blogs to read [mpo_tri] [ In reply to ]
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mpo_tri wrote:
I really enjoy the detail of your blog.

I think the FB page would also be a good idea. Keep me posted, I am interested!

Good luck!

thanks! I set up a FB page now - here

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
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