Don't you swim with Magnolia Masters? Have you had a discussion with Tim about this?

Ahhh. Didn't see that. But I also didn't feel like wading through ~75 replies either.

Understand that; can't believe anyone would want to wade thru the 1000+ posts on that "To the cyclist on Malibu..." thread. Can't really even believe it has gone over 1000 period:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

it s more complex than just drafting. There is a components of strategy, specific skills, mental skills, etc.

One of the most important.... when your in open water...you better not be a ''fragile swimmer''. Getting it, hitting others, bumping, pushing, getting sunk.... some people get phase by it...some strive in those condition. It s a components that isnt necessarly fitness related but more mental/personality related.

something i have to work one on one with certain athlete....learning to be abused and not be affected by it. not losing a stroke over it.... not losing the integrity of your stroke, the mechanic of it...

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

In my age group swimming, that was called a "mother's finger"

I was just thinking about this thread: I think Erik Limkemann could have swam 10 x 100's on 1:30 @ :53 once upon a time. In fact, I kind of think that Erik may have the fastest 1650 time of any Pro triathlete (15:13).

Caddyshack is a top-10 all time movie. Probably top-5.

Not directed to you, but more for the group.
I swam D3. I could hold :55 - :56 for a set of 10 on 1:30.
But I was only a 4:50's low in the 500 shaved & tapered, and could pop a sub 10:20 1,000 in season.
I was and still am a horrible open water swimmer.
Most of my "speed" came from my turns and the underwaters.

Do you mean "fastest of current pro's??? Not sure if he was technically a pro tri guy but Lars Jorgenson went 15:10 for 1500 LCM back in the '88 Trials, then had the fastest swim at Kona 2 or 3 times in the mid-90s. He swam here at U. of Tenn his last 2 years. Also, what about John Flanagan, i think he was in same ballpark???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

My favorite quote so far on this

"Some people do nothing spectacular in a training day and then blow it out on race day. "

I tend to see this in my own performance. I get my ass kicked in training all the time. I can't remember the last time I did a true 2x20 on the bike. But I manage to string together solid races.

In swimming, I struggle to swim 1:26 for 100SCM @ 1:40. But I managed a sub 28 swim last month in a 70.3 and it felt easy, didn't feel like I was pushing.

Open water swimming is so, so different than pool swimming. But practicing more open water hasn't necessarily made me better at it. There's isn't traffic or buoys out there in practice.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I don't see that your 1:26s on 1:40 are inconsistent with a sub-28 half iron swim, since (1:26)(19) = 27:14 for 1900 m. IOW, you were tired in training so that you had to work very hard to do the 1:26s with 14 sec rest but, when rested and in a race, you were able to hold the 1:26 pace in the race. Of course, wetsuit and actual length of the swim are factors also. I have same experience in practice all the time, except when i'm rested:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Those performances are equivalent. If someone asked me what they needed to consistently swim sub 28 in an Half, I would say sets of 100's 1:25 (SCM).

best time in the 100 back / 1000 fly? You are being misleading : ) I am going to guess sub 50 for both

I was just thinking about this thread: I think Erik Limkemann could have swam 10 x 100's on 1:30 @ :53 once upon a time. In fact, I kind of think that Erik may have the fastest 1650 time of any Pro triathlete (15:13). //

As someone else stated, Lars Jorgensen definitely had a faster PR, but then again he was never a pro triathlete. I'm sure there are many, many faster, but also not pro triathletes. So to your question;

In may day there were maybe 5 or 6 that were around that fast, or even faster, and all pro triathletes. Of course you have to extrapolate a little bit on what each swam and in what era. For example, did Eric do his swim in the cheater suits? He certainly did it in more recent times that the guys I raced, their PR's would have been in the 70's and early 80's. And some did not swim the mile, but like the 500 or 400IM, or even backstroke.

So off the top of my head, Paul Donahue who was a CA guy that swam distance, and I believe at one point was the fastest OW swimmer in the world. For sure was in the ball park, maybe even faster.

Rob Mackle, an Indiana swimmer during the hey day. Think his specialty was the 500, went low 4;20's. So probably extrapolate that out to low 15's for the mile too.


Wolfgang Deittrich, a German pro that had a lot of success at hawaii, and everywhere else. He was a 400 IM'er, went mid 4;20's for LCM. Also the only guy to come out on Lars Jorgensen's feet in hawaii when we was setting those 46+ records.


Djan Madruga,was a Brazilian olympic swimmer, and as far as i know the real fastest ever pro triathlete swimmer. In the mid 70's he was on olympic teams and I believe had PR's in the 400LCM of around 3;53, 800LCM under 8 minutes, and around 15;15 for the 1500LCM. He moved to my area after the 70's to swim at Mission Viejo with the likes of Brian Goodell, who I think was the only guy beating him. Brian did 15;01 I believe, and that was in the cave man days of swimming pools, suits, and such. You could lop off 10 seconds at least for modern advances. I think he got 4th in the 400 in the olympics once, and even swam backstroke and the 400IM. Think he was mid to low 4;20's in the IM, don't know his back times, but he swam some big meets doing that stroke, including the olympics i believe, so had to be pretty fast.


He was a really great guy and fried of mine, and I believe was the one to bring the first Ironman to Brazil. He also was top 3 a couple times in the national olympic distance champs in hilton head I believe, so certainly a pro back in the 80's. If someone beats those times, I want to see it on paper! (-;

Erik went a 15:13 in 2002. Tech suits were around but they were nothing like the 2009. Honestly the leap to FS2 in 2004 was just as big as the leap to LZR in 09. And as you alluded too, pool advnaces have been pretty meaningful too.

But I agree, no pro was faster than Djan (I wouldn't count Jorgensen. I was confining this to pro triathletes. Guys who made their living in Triathlon). You don't even have to account for era to make that statement.

Potts was 15:11. So a slightly faster PR than Erik. Mackle and Deittrich were, no doubt, awesome swimmers. I agree if you account for era they were "better" than Erik Limkemann. But I don't think we can say for sure that they swam the 1650 faster than 15:13. Certainly right there though.

one of my athlete in swim squad.... old Tom evans! low to mid 15min 1500m ....translate to 45 an 46min swim in a few races. He was at the level to be consider a decent pro.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

No cheater suit for me. Just a speedo. My 1650 was good. My 1500 lcm was not. NCAA focus on SCY made turns a big part of any sort of speed. It took me a few years to bring up my OW/LCM game when I started racing triathlon.

I could do the 100s on :53 back on the day. Sure. Now? Maybe 3 before 911 would be needed. Cruising to an easy 50 min IM swim and being on the cutting edge of swim speed is roughly 50k/week difference in swim volume, at least for me. Keeping that level and trying to race professionally is silly.

Also, I met Thomas this weekend. Good guy, but the original story is insane. The current me wouldn't last 200m in the open water with the old me capable of holding :53s.

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machines don't win races, muscles do.

Well, Lars did in fact compete as a pro at the '97 and '98 Memphis in May triathlons. I've got the race results and he was 8th in 1:52 in '97 and 16th in 1:57 in '98. Maybe he was never fast enough to make a living at it, but he did compete as a pro, so i would count his 15:10 lcm/14:52 scy as AFAIK the fastest pro. Maybe you don't count him but i count him:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."