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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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Is been pointed out to me that I kick left, when on the right side i do a double leg kick... on my 2bk.

Working on that. I've been doing a one arm/leg drill which seems to have helped. I use the Zoomer fins.... Pull right/kick left up the pool, and switch it up on the way back.

Helps me concentrate on doing a proper kick using only one leg.
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [Kevin Curtis] [ In reply to ]
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Got to the pool this AM a bribed my daughter to shoot some vid. Attempting to do all three kick patterns, fins. I should do some (single) arms tomorrow. Any other suggestions appreciated. My pull "diameter" looks a little low, need to work on loosening the shoulders more.

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Last edited by: SharkFM: Jan 24, 15 16:41
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
Got to the pool this AM a bribed my daughter to shoot some vid. Attempting to do all three kick patterns, fins. I should do some arms tomorrow. Any other suggestions appreciated. My pull "diameter" looks a little low, need to work on loosening the shoulders more.

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Not that I'm in any position to speak, but the only time you "had" the two beat kick was just after pushing off the wall your second length. Also, it looks like your left arm is crossing over... and you're kicking from the knee a bit but the fins could be encouraging that. Dunno.
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
this.

I just kick. Sometimes I kick faster, sometimes slower, sometimes harder. I spend more time in practice thinking about the pull and making sure I don't overreach, as well as keeping my elbows up, than anything else. and I don't think I've ever had to think about timing the kick, that seems like it would be hard to coordinate consciously. if I did start thinking about it, I'd probably screw it up.

I asked my son (who's a swimmer) what he mainly does and he said exactly the same about his kick. 'dunno, I don't think about it..."
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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I tend to think of kick patterns as descriptive, rather than prescriptive. Just keep it compact, ankles loose with feet pointed, not too much bend in the knee, maintain a straight line from your shoulders through your hips to your knees, etc.....

If you can relax, then I feel like the kick timing takes care of itself. I feel like it's one of those things that happens automagically to enable the other aspects of good technique.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:
Got to the pool this AM a bribed my daughter to shoot some vid. Attempting to do all three kick patterns, fins. I should do some (single) arms tomorrow. Any other suggestions appreciated. My pull "diameter" looks a little low, need to work on loosening the shoulders more.

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Hi SharkFM: This thread is still going on :-). In your video, your kick timing comes and goes, but mostly is correct 6BK. Take a look at stroke cycle in frames 1:31-1:32, left leg kick down rotation to right edge, right arm spearing to forward extension; and likewise on next stroke, right leg kick down rotating to left edge, left arm spearing to forward extension. A 6BK, with a single kick tied to rotation. But then immediately after that cycle at 1:33, timing was off, notice left leg kick down with left spearing arm to forward extension. This inhibits rotation and throws you off balance. This is the swim camel or swim zombie sneaking in.

Ditch the fins, they are not helping you. You are predominately 6BK with a mix of un-timed flutter. Don't try to switch up the patterns until you somewhat mastered one pattern. I suggest turning off the extra kicks and work on a 2BK pattern first. This is difficult for those that have been using a lot of kicking to stabilize/balance the body. I often call the extra kicks "training wheels". Using a deadman float or superman drill no kicking (use wall/floor push for momentum), gently rock hips from side to side and let the legs follow the hips. You will notice as left hip rotates down, right hip up - right leg should naturally fall, and vice-versa on opposite side. Now add a slight kick down on right leg as you rotate left hip down (right hip up) and vice-versa on opposite side. This will help rehearse connecting core rotation with your kick timing. Much like our upright terra firma counterpart: Left leg swings forward, right hip, shoulder and arm rotate forward pivoting about the spine. This isn't a secret, just physics and laws of motion as we cooperate with gravity.

Good luck!

Stuart
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [StuartMcDougal] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah you're right about the fins. I rode the bike into today, so just goggles and a cap - it was much better! Thanks to green for the tip on the crossover too, that has snuck back in there.

What I like about kick timing, and this is huge for me, is that it brings a proper structure to the stroke process. Something that I could NOT figure out on my own. Also I honestly feel like I am swimming with a pull buoy, as my core is higher. This the most likely due to legs working with gravity and inertia vs against as you have said.

As a novice swimmer the video is an "attempt" - so there are lots of extra kicks in there to re-sync as I move along. It didn't feel as bad as it looked. In a 25M pool it's a bit short for me to establish pattern, the 50M was better in that respect.

One thing I think swimmers need is a quiet pool. You need space to learn and try things out. So many busy pools adults have to fit it all in, how can you really learn to swim? We are fortunate our pool is quite empty- there were 3 full lanes open at 8am. Plus our back yard is a massive, clean lake. It's so warm out today I am thinking of giving open water a rip (January- Canada)

lastly the side bar: the fun goal is to keep pace with my youngest son, the 10 yo flyer. He did in fact bust out a best time enroute to P1 100 fly at the regional champs yesterday. The whole TSUN club is killing it wall to wall mixing it up with the major clubs.

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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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That's great to hear about your son, please tell him congrats(!) on 100fly and regional's, and to the TSUN swim club. It's wonderful that you are involved in your son's swimming and his team, this will prove to be a lifetime activity you both will do together. You have lots of opportunity to study swimmers from the deck and learn a ton from observation. Don't be afraid to challenge the coach and ask questions, most coaches embrace parents that are engaged in process, and not just meddling.

Yes, it's nice to find a quiet pool when you are focusing/refining certain parts of your stroke. The shallow zone (if there is one) is generally quiet during non class hours, 5:30a is usually dead quiet. And a lake in your backyard - how great is that -- I'm jealous :-)

Keep working on the 2BK timing since this pattern each kick is tied directly with core rotation. If you have a few stabilizing kicks between rotational kicks, no worries - those kicks will start to disengage as balance improves. Have fun with the process and enjoy the journey.

Stuart
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Re: Total Immersion v Swim Smooth - Kicking [StuartMcDougal] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to keep this thread hanging around, but I found that the opposite - using paddles (not fins) felt pretty good. The paddles gave just that extra bit of support at the front end, so I could work on the 2BK super slowly. I also used a Finis snorkel when going very slow and allowing the hip twist/leg drop to happen as instructed. That (best case) defines the timing of it all. It's a challenge to maintain a solid core structure, throughout, all aligned to form that "skating" edge.

You know (crazy thinking) I wish there was some sort of electro-mechanical body suit you could wear, that replicates a pro stroke. "here put this on and swim while I slowly crank up the voltage"



>Crew is back from the weekend meet. Son is beaming as he added a 2nd medal. They hung out with a guy named Ryan Cochrane (who's that:)? Oh the coach is my wife - no meddling allowed :O

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Last edited by: SharkFM: Jan 26, 15 15:53
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