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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [phog] [ In reply to ]
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70-75min - goal for an IM, GFT in 2015. When I did this race in 2005, I hit a 74 min swim. The next two years I did the race (DNF's!), my swim was ~80 minutes or so. To give you an idea of how slow I am, compared to most here, yesterday, I did s x 5x100 descending on the 2. ran to the pool, workout, ran home. I would not have been able to swim any more 100's. They were all between 1.39 and 1.35. I was fried, and did not enjoy the run home.

I do NOT have a coach yet. I am going to approach him after the holidays.

Paddles...I'll have to post a pic of them. They aren't flat; they have a 'curve' that molds to the palm of the hand...I've not used these in probably 5 years.

Tigerpaws, I'm going to call Todd Hoffmeier, STAT coach. His son has been on my LL baseball team for the last three seasons, so I have a good relationship with him. It's a bit embarassing, because I'm so bad, and he coaches some pretty elite talent. But I'll live.

And to whoever told me to go to Youtube, I don't trust 90% of what is on there to be correct. Hell, I don't trust 50% of what's on HERE to be correct! But ST is a great place for me to start. Where MOST of the replies are helpful.


phog wrote:
mjpwooo wrote:
There is no doubt...I'm the worst swimmer posting in this thread. it's actually a bit scary posting in this thread (rather humiliating, b/c I'm so slow). Just now VERY slowly coming back to this. I've got questions:

- I have paddles. Do I use them? When? I hate them.
- Do I need to use a kick board? I hate this even more, I think I hate kick sets more than anything in training in all three sports. It probably takes me 2' to do 50 short course yards, so it's an incredibly inefficient use of my time.
- WHERE does the pb go on the legs? At my ankles, in between my knees, up close to my berries?

My race is in october, 75% chance for wetsuit legal (in FLA lake), and right now, I run to the pool swim just 1200y, and run home. By design, no structure just yet. It's been probably 12 months since I've been in the pool. This has been going on for about 4 weeks now (2x/week). Goal for that race is 70-75min.

Lastly, I'm very likely going to get a local swim coach to give me some one-on-one. He's good at his job, and I trust him. But the three questions above...I need some help.


An interesting post, because if your goal is to swim 70-75 mins in the race it would be usefull to know the distance you are racing.

IM distance, you're just pulling our legs. Because thats top1/3rd in any IM race. And you don't train :0(
HIM you won't make the cutoff.

You already have a coach. So why, if you trust him, are you on here, pretending you know nothing and no one at your pool or any other pool you ever swam in ever used a pull buoy and that you don't have an internet connection and youtube is new to you.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [Salmon Steve] [ In reply to ]
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Where can one get a rubber ring like that?
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
Supersquid wrote:
If you like the pull buoy a lot, how do you feel about the neoprene swim shorts like the Roka Sim? My thinking is that they would be superior to the pull buoy since they would allow you to use your natural kick but still give the benefits of the pull buoy. I suppose the downside would be that, unless you change suits during your workout, it would be like swimming your entire workout with the pull buoy.

I've never been one to use the pull buoy much, but I'm considering buying a pair of the shorts to train with this winter to see what happens. I'm thinking maybe I'll wear them once a week and use my tempo trainer that day to work on stroke rate. I'm sure they're fun to swim in, but my fear is my swim going backwards because of them.


I am not a coach but will share my experience. I used the Roka Sim last summer in my tempo/race paced sets. It helped me learn how to swim with a higher cadence (in closer to a wet suit position) so that when race day came I was used to putting in more effort - the result was a 4 min PR at the HIM swim distance. What was interesting to me is swimming has always been my worst discipline and yet I place higher against the field in this swim than I did on the bike or run in this event.

The point is with some of us, we never get to practice in a wet-suit position enough before race day, I think the short enable that, plus its fun to swim faster more often.


i think all those are great points. There is a place for this kind of shorts but i still prefer the pull buoy overall. Easier to put on and take off during pratice at different times. And yes, it s very rewarding and fun to have swimming goes fast more often and have that different feel of water.

I m always amazing at the spectacular results i get with the really beginner swimmers in doing this....and the smile on there face. They do get faster and big part of it it s the new enjoyement and level of relaxation/fluidity they get from swimming with the pull buoy.

And as many have ask: i m not a big fan of fins....i see very little use of them. Yes, there is time but i very rarely use them. They have a bad tendency to make swimmers rely on kick for propulsion and that is a very bad idea in general...

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [mjpwooo] [ In reply to ]
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mjpwooo wrote:


Tigerpaws, I'm going to call Todd Hoffmeier, STAT coach. His son has been on my LL baseball team for the last three seasons, so I have a good relationship with him. It's a bit embarassing, because I'm so bad, and he coaches some pretty elite talent. But I'll live.


Todd seems like a nice guy and while I don't know him personally he has a solid reputation for teaching the youngins around the area. He is actually the director for the entire GTSA program now that STAT merged with them. IMO you are taking the best route b/c you are seeking instruction from a dedicated swim coach. There is zero to be embarrassed about seeking coaching. That is the first step and why I believe so many triathletes stay at their current levels. They are afraid how they will look to others while a coach breaks their stroke down and rebuilds it. Enjoy the process and know what you are doing will pay off as long as you do what he tells you and stick with it. Simple thought: forget everything you *think* you know about swimming and trust the coach. Go get 'em! Be psyched.....you are about to stop guessing and start knowing!
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Dec 17, 14 2:25
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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Since your post isn't in pink, I'll assume it's an honest question and have a go at the answer:

It appears to be an inner tube for a wheelbarrow or a furniture dolly. Any hardware store should be able to help you. It looks like he duct-taped the valve so it wouldn't rip up his skin.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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Hell, I'm more embarassed because he's going to see how fat I am!!! I know Todd, and I like him. And I know he can help me...A LOT. And, like I said earlier, I've been nice to his kid, so he owes me!

tigerpaws wrote:
mjpwooo wrote:


Tigerpaws, I'm going to call Todd Hoffmeier, STAT coach. His son has been on my LL baseball team for the last three seasons, so I have a good relationship with him. It's a bit embarassing, because I'm so bad, and he coaches some pretty elite talent. But I'll live.


Todd seems like a nice guy and while I don't know him personally he has a solid reputation for teaching the youngins around the area. He is actually the director for the entire GTSA program now that STAT merged with them. IMO you are taking the best route b/c you are seeking instruction from a dedicated swim coach. There is zero to be embarrassed about seeking coaching. That is the first step and why I believe so many triathletes stay at their current levels. They are afraid how they will look to others while a coach breaks their stroke down and rebuilds it. Enjoy the process and know what you are doing will pay off as long as you do what he tells you and stick with it. Simple thought: forget everything you *think* you know about swimming and trust the coach. Go get 'em! Be psyched.....you are about to stop guessing and start knowing!
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [mjpwooo] [ In reply to ]
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mjpwooo wrote:
Hell, I'm more embarassed because he's going to see how fat I am!!! I know Todd, and I like him. And I know he can help me...A LOT. And, like I said earlier, I've been nice to his kid, so he owes me!

Well, fortunately the fat will have no impact on your ability to swim fast! One of the gals I swim with is um, not thin.....she go fast though!
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:

i think all those are great points. There is a place for this kind of shorts but i still prefer the pull buoy overall. Easier to put on and take off during pratice at different times. And yes, it s very rewarding and fun to have swimming goes fast more often and have that different feel of water.

I m always amazing at the spectacular results i get with the really beginner swimmers in doing this....and the smile on there face. They do get faster and big part of it it s the new enjoyement and level of relaxation/fluidity they get from swimming with the pull buoy.

Other than cost I cannot think of one advantage a traditional buoy has over SIM shorts or Lava pants. I suppose Lava pants are hard to get off. It might even take 20 seconds. SIMs can be pulled on and off almost as easily as a buoy. And when it comes to swimming *anatomically* correct the Sim and LAVA blow away the buoy. Is it possible that you like the buoy because it was what you know?

jonnyo wrote:

And as many have ask: i m not a big fan of fins....i see very little use of them. Yes, there is time but i very rarely use them. They have a bad tendency to make swimmers rely on kick for propulsion and that is a very bad idea in general...

Plantar Flexion is the missing ingredient in so many swimmers. My advise to swimmers who can "never" get it is to consider kicking more, not less. Poor ankle flexibility is really difficult to overcome. And the point of using fins is not to develop a "stronger" kick; It is to develop a more efficient kick by increasing plantar flexion.

Mind you I wouldn't advise a competent triathlete/swimmer to spend a whole lot of time with the board unless they had all sorts of time to train.
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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AJ

What you say is very true. I never seen of my life a SIM short or lava pants, i have no clue how to put them on or take off. The feedback from some of my online athletes is the Roka are difficulte to put on and off when wet. That is all i know. I use pull buoy as they can be found at any pools are the world, cost nothing and i m use to it. I m very open to new tools.

As for the kicking, yes, in perfect world, we would work on there kick until they become good with it. With my elite/pro athletes, we make sure this area is cover. But with my age group athlete that are getting in the sport and have only 2-3h a week, kicking is far in the back of my mind. I get much better results in teaching them to keep there feet out of the way and learn to pull hard. Of course, there is no secret that my approach is highly influenced by the coaches i work with....and the spectacular results they had on so many none swimmers like me.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if people want my opinions. Here are some pros and cons of pull buoys.
Cons:
Most triathletes are not doing anywhere enough serious swimming. What they are doing lacks rhyme and reason. What they need is consistency, a means of measuring improvements and for making adjustments. What they do not need is excuses to buy more stuff and to add more complexity to a pointless and disorganized training regime. Masters workouts and lap swim hours are full of people swimming really, really slow with lots of gear.

Pros:
Pull workouts are "hard" but not too hard.
We used to do a lot of pull workouts. They tire your arms, improve your stroke, are good easy aerobic workouts.


Johnyo- You have convinced me. I think more pull would be a good idea for me. I don't believe that it will improve my swim, any more than the same amount of time doing regular swimming would. But I do believe, it will reduce the amount of stress required for the same amount of improvement. This will either allow me to swim more (which WOULD help) or do more hard cycling or running (which should be my top triathlon priorities).

Note: I grew up swimming in Australia age 10-17.
We did a lot more pull there than my club or college team in the u.s did.
Last edited by: dirtymangos: Dec 18, 14 10:57
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Re: TRIATHLETE: USE the PULL BUOY...use it A LOT!!!! [dirtymangos] [ In reply to ]
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I tried the twin (ie 2) pull buoys today, as suggested on ST by a few posters. I used a FINIS ankle strap to group two TYR's together.

It was really cool and the pros or benefits are real! I'll do my best to describe what I felt:

First off, I had a bit of trouble because my chest was pushed low, rear high. So I had to adjust/tighten up my shoulders and breathing. This put be more correctly into the pocket where I should be, and my stroke became much more seamless and flowing. Balance is an issue as well, so I think using two improves your ability to balance in the water.

Also it attacks your (bad) posture. You need to engage your core and change your overall posture to accept the new position in the water, or you will drown :P (sort of). It was kind of like someone lifting your feet and trying to dunk your head. Therefore, it instills muscle memory for that high & fast /correct position in the water.

After getting used to it I went to 50M intervals, the fastest/easiest ever for me. I also felt much better moving onto other things, like kickboard, and doing some sprints.

So where using one PB made some sense, to me using two PB's makes even more!

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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