Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Walk/Run Method for Long Runs
Quote | Reply
I'm currently reading Matt Dixon's "Well Built Triathlete" book and he advocates walking for 30-60secs every 6 minutes of running (or a ratio based on how you feel to maintain form).

I've found a bit of information regarding this method but want to know if you still have to implement this into your races? Obviously you want to train how you are going to race but I really don't want to walk portions of a half marathon race. However, if you train your body to walk for 30 secs every 6 minutes, how will your body react an hour into a half marathon if it is screaming out to you to walk for 30secs like you did in training?

Seems to be on the research I've found it is suitable for people around the 2+ hour range for a half marathon who want to finish fresher and enjoy their training and racing, not someone who is doing a 1hr 30ish half marathon.

I assume this method would be more suitable for full marathons rather than 10k and half marathons also?
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
why aim low? train to race like elites train (just volume build will be different, initially)
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I never believed in this theory, and never raced like that in any of my Olympic or 1/2 iron races. However, my coach really encouraged me to walk 15-45 seconds at EVERY mile (aid station) during Ironman Wisconsin (my first IM). I reluctantly obeyed. I was shocked that I was able to run a 3:22 off the bike with those splits.

Theory:
Your first 10 miles or so will be fine without the break. But stopping EARLY and OFTEN allows the body to taken in nutrition early on, and allows the HR to drop, cool down, and calm down in between each mile. 60 seconds per mile for a marathon -- 26 mintues walking (yes, that's a lot!). But if you don't walk and end up cramping at the last 5 miles and have to walk for two miles, that will be MUCH more walking than 26 minutes (and it's not planned!!).

Worked for me. Won't be doing it for the shorter races, but will incorporate it into my next IM.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [hcxc2013] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hcxc2013 wrote:
I never believed in this theory, and never raced like that in any of my Olympic or 1/2 iron races. However, my coach really encouraged me to walk 15-45 seconds at EVERY mile (aid station) during Ironman Wisconsin (my first IM). I reluctantly obeyed. I was shocked that I was able to run a 3:22 off the bike with those splits.

Theory:
Your first 10 miles or so will be fine without the break. But stopping EARLY and OFTEN allows the body to taken in nutrition early on, and allows the HR to drop, cool down, and calm down in between each mile. 60 seconds per mile for a marathon -- 26 mintues walking (yes, that's a lot!). But if you don't walk and end up cramping at the last 5 miles and have to walk for two miles, that will be MUCH more walking than 26 minutes (and it's not planned!!).

Worked for me. Won't be doing it for the shorter races, but will incorporate it into my next IM.

Yes, I understand how it would be of benefit for an ironman run. You would obviously be tired from swim/bike and a walk run method would not be a bad option.

However, what about doing the walk/run in my 2hr training runs but running the entire half marathon (stand alone or end of half IM)? Are there any negative flow on effects of training doing walk/run but then racing and running 100% of the way?
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ENP wrote:
However, what about doing the walk/run in my 2hr training runs but running the entire half marathon (stand alone or end of half IM)? Are there any negative flow on effects of training doing walk/run but then racing and running 100% of the way?

Well you generally train the run solo (i.e. not after a long bike).. so you are doing an easier run, with easier breaks. Maybe your body doesn't care, but I would not feel mentally confident that I could run 13 miles nonstop if I did a bunch of start-stops in training.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TunaBoo wrote:
ENP wrote:

However, what about doing the walk/run in my 2hr training runs but running the entire half marathon (stand alone or end of half IM)? Are there any negative flow on effects of training doing walk/run but then racing and running 100% of the way?


Well you generally train the run solo (i.e. not after a long bike).. so you are doing an easier run, with easier breaks. Maybe your body doesn't care, but I would not feel mentally confident that I could run 13 miles nonstop if I did a bunch of start-stops in training.

What about just doing them in the base winter period to build up the miles? When the race gets closer, I could do continuous runs to simulate the feeling of the race.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ENP wrote:
What about just doing them in the base winter period to build up the miles? When the race gets closer, I could do continuous runs to simulate the feeling of the race.

That surely is better. Questions though:

a) Have you ever done a program with a lot of running? How many miles per week?
b) Did you run that time, or run walk? If run, why change now?
c) What pace do you run on easy runs? Do you plan to run at the same pace with walk breaks, or at a faster pace?
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ENP wrote:
I'm currently reading Matt Dixon's "Well Built Triathlete" book and he advocates walking for 30-60secs every 6 minutes of running (or a ratio based on how you feel to maintain form).

I've found a bit of information regarding this method but want to know if you still have to implement this into your races? Obviously you want to train how you are going to race but I really don't want to walk portions of a half marathon race. However, if you train your body to walk for 30 secs every 6 minutes, how will your body react an hour into a half marathon if it is screaming out to you to walk for 30secs like you did in training?

Seems to be on the research I've found it is suitable for people around the 2+ hour range for a half marathon who want to finish fresher and enjoy their training and racing, not someone who is doing a 1hr 30ish half marathon.

I assume this method would be more suitable for full marathons rather than 10k and half marathons also?

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A friend and local ultra runner is on the board of the Galloway program. He swears by the "magic mile". I have yet to try it but got my wife through her first half marathon using it. He swears that someone has broken 2:30 in a marathon using a run walk (I forget the ratio)
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.

What was your run/walk ratio and did you keep the same ratio for both training and the race itself?
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ENP wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.


What was your run/walk ratio and did you keep the same ratio for both training and the race itself?

I have never used in training, since I do not believe in ever running more than 2.5 hours max, and only did that once or twice before my marathons, never needed. I also do LSD running so again, have not needed.

I have never used in anything other than a marathon race, either stand alone or at the end of IMLT.

Gallaway says you need to find what works for you. So, I basically tried during the race. I used the aid stations for get two things at once, nutrition while I was walking fast. For my first race, I think I started at like 30 seconds
but just felt that was too much, and kicked it down.

I think I was around 15 to 20 seconds per mile at the aid stations for the first 18 miles. Then gallaways says if your are felling good at this point, just go for it, which I have been able to do.

It is amazing what letting the legs have just this short break from the pounding per mile can do for a race, or atleast it sure has helped me. The one marathon I did not do this I bonked
from leg cramps towards the end.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TunaBoo wrote:

a) Have you ever done a program with a lot of running? How many miles per week?
b) Did you run that time, or run walk? If run, why change now?
c) What pace do you run on easy runs? Do you plan to run at the same pace with walk breaks, or at a faster pace?

Yes I've run two marathons. Running topped out at 6-7hours per week with 4x sessions. Longest run being 3hrs.

I ran but my legs and technique were absolutely hammered and the runs themselves took me several days to recover from. I figure there is a better way to increase my run quantity without compromising on poor technique, fatigue and possible injury.

On an easy run I would do 5.30/6min kms which works out to be low 9min miles.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ENP wrote:
Yes I've run two marathons. Running topped out at 6-7hours per week with 4x sessions. Longest run being 3hrs.

I ran but my legs and technique were absolutely hammered and the runs themselves took me several days to recover from. I figure there is a better way to increase my run quantity without compromising on poor technique, fatigue and possible injury.

On an easy run I would do 5.30/6min kms which works out to be low 9min miles.

So conventional ST forum says you should run more days, like 6-7 days. The same miles in more days = less stress on body. Or a little more miles = better prepared.

Easy advice for me because I like to run. If someone told me to swim 6 days a week I could kick them in the head.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TunaBoo wrote:
ENP wrote:

Yes I've run two marathons. Running topped out at 6-7hours per week with 4x sessions. Longest run being 3hrs.

I ran but my legs and technique were absolutely hammered and the runs themselves took me several days to recover from. I figure there is a better way to increase my run quantity without compromising on poor technique, fatigue and possible injury.

On an easy run I would do 5.30/6min kms which works out to be low 9min miles.


So conventional ST forum says you should run more days, like 6-7 days. The same miles in more days = less stress on body. Or a little more miles = better prepared.

Easy advice for me because I like to run. If someone told me to swim 6 days a week I could kick them in the head.

I have never run more than 3 days a week, ever. Never over 30 miles a week, ever. And have done okay.
But I do use powercranks on my bike trainer 7 days a week which help my running without the pounding of running.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TunaBoo wrote:
ENP wrote:

Yes I've run two marathons. Running topped out at 6-7hours per week with 4x sessions. Longest run being 3hrs.

I ran but my legs and technique were absolutely hammered and the runs themselves took me several days to recover from. I figure there is a better way to increase my run quantity without compromising on poor technique, fatigue and possible injury.

On an easy run I would do 5.30/6min kms which works out to be low 9min miles.


So conventional ST forum says you should run more days, like 6-7 days. The same miles in more days = less stress on body. Or a little more miles = better prepared.

Easy advice for me because I like to run. If someone told me to swim 6 days a week I could kick them in the head.

If I followed the conventional ST wisdom, my kids would wonder why their dad is never home, I would not recover and get ill or injured and I would have no time for adequate recovery or nutrition that takes time to complete.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wife has run 4 marathons injury free using the Galloway program. They ran 9 minutes/walk 1. I tried it for the NY City Marathon and had my best time. It allows you to run a slightly faster pace during the run intervals for the entire marathon and saves your legs. Everyone in my group agreed that during the walk intervals, our legs became looser and small nics desolved. It's a great method for a someone new to marathons or if you are injury prone.

--------------------------------------------------------
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

Nice work. I won't every qualify for Boston, but below are my thoughts.

I did a 140.6 last year using the run/walk method in training to approximate my stops at aid stations. An ultra-marathoner buddy of mine recommended I incorporate it for my 140.6 last year (my second ironman) since he'd regularly see very fit athletes have a hard time to start running again after stopping at aid stations on ironmans.

It worked well for me and I ran a 4:37 marathon at the end of my race. I think that's generally a 25-30 percentile time, depending on the course (MOP? FMOP?). Btw, during my 140.6 last year I caught a racer who was hurting on the run. He looked to be FAR more fit than me, and we ended up running together the last half of the marathon. It turns out the racer had done Boston twice (once the year before) and had not incorporated a run/walk method during his training for the ironman. But he walked the aid stations with me and we both seemed to survive the second half of the marathon in a better state because of it.

That said, for shorter/faster races, I could take or leave the run/walk method. In two weeks I'm doing a 70.3 and shooting for a 5:30 time. I haven't incorporated the run/walk method at all in my training this year and plan to run through the aid stations at hopefully an 8:30-8:45 pace. I definitely would not use it for a 10k (and just did one last month at about a 7:25 pace).
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [elburrito99] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
elburrito99 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.


Nice work. I won't every qualify for Boston, but below are my thoughts.

I did a 140.6 last year using the run/walk method in training to approximate my stops at aid stations. An ultra-marathoner buddy of mine recommended I incorporate it for my 140.6 last year (my second ironman) since he'd regularly see very fit athletes have a hard time to start running again after stopping at aid stations on ironmans.

It worked well for me and I ran a 4:37 marathon at the end of my race. I think that's generally a 25-30 percentile time, depending on the course (MOP? FMOP?). Btw, during my 140.6 last year I caught a racer who was hurting on the run. He looked to be FAR more fit than me, and we ended up running together the last half of the marathon. It turns out the racer had done Boston twice (once the year before) and had not incorporated a run/walk method during his training for the ironman. But he walked the aid stations with me and we both seemed to survive the second half of the marathon in a better state because of it.

That said, for shorter/faster races, I could take or leave the run/walk method. In two weeks I'm doing a 70.3 and shooting for a 5:30 time. I haven't incorporated the run/walk method at all in my training this year and plan to run through the aid stations at hopefully an 8:30-8:45 pace. I definitely would not use it for a 10k (and just did one last month at about a 7:25 pace).

Great job.

As I said, I never train with the run/walk method in training, and only use for Marathon races. Anything shorter it is just go for it.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think run walk is essential if you're pushing endurance running whatever that is for you. I try and walk all the uphills more energy not as much distance
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
ENP wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.


What was your run/walk ratio and did you keep the same ratio for both training and the race itself?


I have never used in training, since I do not believe in ever running more than 2.5 hours max, and only did that once or twice before my marathons, never needed. I also do LSD running so again, have not needed.

I have never used in anything other than a marathon race, either stand alone or at the end of IMLT.

Gallaway says you need to find what works for you. So, I basically tried during the race. I used the aid stations for get two things at once, nutrition while I was walking fast. For my first race, I think I started at like 30 seconds
but just felt that was too much, and kicked it down.

I think I was around 15 to 20 seconds per mile at the aid stations for the first 18 miles. Then gallaways says if your are felling good at this point, just go for it, which I have been able to do.

It is amazing what letting the legs have just this short break from the pounding per mile can do for a race, or atleast it sure has helped me. The one marathon I did not do this I bonked
from leg cramps towards the end.

.

Are you saying you walked 15-20 seconds at every aid station? That's really not much of a run/walk strategy. I walk at aid stations while I drink or take in fuel and I don't call that a run/walk. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I'm a coach for Fleet Feet and worked with Run/walkers for 2 years. The shortest run interval I have ever worked with was 45 seconds. For many I coached, a typical run/walk ratio would be anywhere from 5-8 minutes run to 1 minute walk or even a two minute walk.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [ENP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you think you can't go the distance without walking, do the run/ walk. It sounds like you can do the HM without walking, so go at your fastest sustainable pace. I did 1 mile run/ 1 min walk in my IM because I have never finished a marathon without substantial walking, and I ran my fastest marathon. I only trained the run/ walk on 3 hour runs.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [maddog95835] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
maddog95835 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
ENP wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.


What was your run/walk ratio and did you keep the same ratio for both training and the race itself?


I have never used in training, since I do not believe in ever running more than 2.5 hours max, and only did that once or twice before my marathons, never needed. I also do LSD running so again, have not needed.

I have never used in anything other than a marathon race, either stand alone or at the end of IMLT.

Gallaway says you need to find what works for you. So, I basically tried during the race. I used the aid stations for get two things at once, nutrition while I was walking fast. For my first race, I think I started at like 30 seconds
but just felt that was too much, and kicked it down.

I think I was around 15 to 20 seconds per mile at the aid stations for the first 18 miles. Then gallaways says if your are felling good at this point, just go for it, which I have been able to do.

It is amazing what letting the legs have just this short break from the pounding per mile can do for a race, or atleast it sure has helped me. The one marathon I did not do this I bonked
from leg cramps towards the end.

.


Are you saying you walked 15-20 seconds at every aid station? That's really not much of a run/walk strategy. I walk at aid stations while I drink or take in fuel and I don't call that a run/walk. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I'm a coach for Fleet Feet and worked with Run/walkers for 2 years. The shortest run interval I have ever worked with was 45 seconds. For many I coached, a typical run/walk ratio would be anywhere from 5-8 minutes run to 1 minute walk or even a two minute walk.

Yep, just enough to get food down and relax the legs. From what I have read, everyone is different depending on what shape they are in, etc. So clearly, I seem to be in decent shape.
I am NOT saying this is what anyone else should use in time, but a break at each mile does really help. Each person needs to find the best for them to get their fastest time without unplanned walking.

So why is walking at an aid station while drinking eatting not walking? Sure feels like it for me. I like to get 2 things for one.

Now a person just starting out might run a minute and walk a minute. I was just asked what I do now. As I said, my first race I used the method I did 30 second walks, and they were not at aid stations. I just got
smarter now since it is much easier to drink while walking than running. I used this same method of IMLT except I did this at each aid station which were shorter than a mile. I ended up never having to walk
unplanned so I was real happy with my time.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
maddog95835 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
ENP wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I qualified for Boston with Gallaways run/walk method, raced Boston and IMLT with the same method. Worked well for me.

.


What was your run/walk ratio and did you keep the same ratio for both training and the race itself?


I have never used in training, since I do not believe in ever running more than 2.5 hours max, and only did that once or twice before my marathons, never needed. I also do LSD running so again, have not needed.

I have never used in anything other than a marathon race, either stand alone or at the end of IMLT.

Gallaway says you need to find what works for you. So, I basically tried during the race. I used the aid stations for get two things at once, nutrition while I was walking fast. For my first race, I think I started at like 30 seconds
but just felt that was too much, and kicked it down.

I think I was around 15 to 20 seconds per mile at the aid stations for the first 18 miles. Then gallaways says if your are felling good at this point, just go for it, which I have been able to do.

It is amazing what letting the legs have just this short break from the pounding per mile can do for a race, or atleast it sure has helped me. The one marathon I did not do this I bonked
from leg cramps towards the end.

.


Are you saying you walked 15-20 seconds at every aid station? That's really not much of a run/walk strategy. I walk at aid stations while I drink or take in fuel and I don't call that a run/walk. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I'm a coach for Fleet Feet and worked with Run/walkers for 2 years. The shortest run interval I have ever worked with was 45 seconds. For many I coached, a typical run/walk ratio would be anywhere from 5-8 minutes run to 1 minute walk or even a two minute walk.


Yep, just enough to get food down and relax the legs. From what I have read, everyone is different depending on what shape they are in, etc. So clearly, I seem to be in decent shape.
I am NOT saying this is what anyone else should use in time, but a break at each mile does really help. Each person needs to find the best for them to get their fastest time without unplanned walking.

So why is walking at an aid station while drinking eatting not walking? Sure feels like it for me. I like to get 2 things for one.

Now a person just starting out might run a minute and walk a minute. I was just asked what I do now. As I said, my first race I used the method I did 30 second walks, and they were not at aid stations. I just got
smarter now since it is much easier to drink while walking than running. I used this same method of IMLT except I did this at each aid station which were shorter than a mile. I ended up never having to walk
unplanned so I was real happy with my time.

.

Whatever works for an individual is the way to go. I was just questioning calling walking at aid stations a "true" run/walk method. The run/walk method usually is more structured...e.g. run 6 minutes / walk 1 minute. Really, 90% of marathoners could be considered run/walkers because the majority walk through aid stations as I do.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [dtaylor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dtaylor wrote:
If you think you can't go the distance without walking, do the run/ walk. It sounds like you can do the HM without walking, so go at your fastest sustainable pace. I did 1 mile run/ 1 min walk in my IM because I have never finished a marathon without substantial walking, and I ran my fastest marathon. I only trained the run/ walk on 3 hour runs.

That's exactly what my wife did last year training for her first marathon. Worked great for her. During that minute walk is when she'd get her hydration and fueling in.
Quote Reply
Re: Walk/Run Method for Long Runs [maddog95835] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did my first two half marathons this season. I completed neither without some walking towards the end (off and on during the last 4 miles or so) and ended up doing 1:57 and 2:09.

Later this season I did my first HIM and ran a 2:02 half marathon at the end by using the 9:1 run:walk method. For me this worked great and I ran a far superior time to what I would have done if I did not run:walk. It was my game plan going into the race and I stuck to it.

The only problem was that I had to check all my shame at the door. It seemed to coincide that at most mile points was where the crowds were watching. I got a lot of "you look great", "keep running", "just a little bit further" when I was walking and just felt like screaming at them "I KNOW. THIS IS MY GAMEPLAN. I AM SUPPOSED TO BE WALKING".

If I wasn't confident with my run before another race of that distance I would adopt the same approach without hesitation.

However, if you want to be FOP/competitive then you cannot afford to give up 13/26mins per race.


Blog: http://www.coopstriblog.wordpress.com
Latest blog: Setting Goals. With or Without Gin.
Date: 10/31/2017
Quote Reply