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Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [dizzyingpaces]
[ In reply to ]
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [Louamerica]
[ In reply to ]
There could be several causes for this--and I've had em all (see tag line). I'm about 15 years older, so here's what I would advise you to do having never met you and not being a doctor nor playing one on TV.
Those imbalances in the psoas and hip flexor could be caused by a number of things, and a good physio will help you diagnose them. Listen to your physio first. If you don't get better, then find another physio. Unless you're getting paid to do this, it's a hobby, not a living. Mine is a firm believer (and in my case he was right) in that learning to squat properly teaches you not only how your muscles work, but will help you diagnose weaknesses. That exercise (done properly) causes your medius and hamstrings and everything else to fire in the proper order, and causes the abs to engage in their proper stabilizing role.
I would be willing to hazard a guess that you might have a hard time squatting your weight with proper form five times. If, when doing these squats, you feel weakness in your groin when under heavy load, it may also be that scar tissue has partially adhered your adductors to your hamstrings. Go to work on them with a tiger tail or have your physio do some graston if you're feeling masochistic. Your A race is months away. Back off the intensity (you will burn out), do some strength training and tempo work and focus on getting the body ready for the load. Then ramp it back up.
You're in good shape, and have plenty of time before a summer race. That your coach is demanding snot on the floor at all costs now seems to me to be completely insane--both because of the injury, and because of the mental strain. Yes, an FTP focus is great (reverse periodization will work) but that only works if your body (and mind) can handle the intensity. You're not strong enough. Back off the intensity AND the volume, heal, and get stronger. Sweet spot-type/tempo intervals will maintain your fitness without burning you out.
The strength/healing phase would take 6-8 weeks, and the lifting will hurt in the beginning. Then put the speed on top of that strength and just maintain the strength. At your age, you may not even need to lift to maintain that baseline once you establish it. So try this -- have the physio sort your issues, and hit 3 lifting sessions per week on a 3x5 linear type program, and then no more than 4 hours mixed between the other disciplines at no more than tempo/SST intensity 'till you get healed and have a full ROM. If you're doing the lifting right, that will be plenty in the first two weeks. And if choosing between recovering from lifting or from cardio, skip or downplay the cardio work initially so that you can keep adding weight. Once the huge soreness goes away (1week or so) you can push the bike/run a little more, but I wouldn't go into full fledged base (FTP or otherwise) until you meet certain strength and ROM benchmarks. An arbitrary one would be to squat your weight 8-10 times, with good form, and be able to deadlift 1.25x body weight 5x properly. Once you get to that point, you're in maintenance mode--the point is not to be huge, but to be able to take the pounding of long miles, hours in the saddle, etc. Once you start approaching body weight-type benchmarks, then cut the lifting back and add more SBR. Gains will happen very, very quickly once your muscles are firing properly.
There are wide opinions on this topic, and I'm coming at it from the standpoint of somebody who is undoing the harm of a decade of sitting at work. Creating a basic strength level has helped me a lot.
YMMV.
owner: world's tightest psoas (TM)
Those imbalances in the psoas and hip flexor could be caused by a number of things, and a good physio will help you diagnose them. Listen to your physio first. If you don't get better, then find another physio. Unless you're getting paid to do this, it's a hobby, not a living. Mine is a firm believer (and in my case he was right) in that learning to squat properly teaches you not only how your muscles work, but will help you diagnose weaknesses. That exercise (done properly) causes your medius and hamstrings and everything else to fire in the proper order, and causes the abs to engage in their proper stabilizing role.
I would be willing to hazard a guess that you might have a hard time squatting your weight with proper form five times. If, when doing these squats, you feel weakness in your groin when under heavy load, it may also be that scar tissue has partially adhered your adductors to your hamstrings. Go to work on them with a tiger tail or have your physio do some graston if you're feeling masochistic. Your A race is months away. Back off the intensity (you will burn out), do some strength training and tempo work and focus on getting the body ready for the load. Then ramp it back up.
You're in good shape, and have plenty of time before a summer race. That your coach is demanding snot on the floor at all costs now seems to me to be completely insane--both because of the injury, and because of the mental strain. Yes, an FTP focus is great (reverse periodization will work) but that only works if your body (and mind) can handle the intensity. You're not strong enough. Back off the intensity AND the volume, heal, and get stronger. Sweet spot-type/tempo intervals will maintain your fitness without burning you out.
The strength/healing phase would take 6-8 weeks, and the lifting will hurt in the beginning. Then put the speed on top of that strength and just maintain the strength. At your age, you may not even need to lift to maintain that baseline once you establish it. So try this -- have the physio sort your issues, and hit 3 lifting sessions per week on a 3x5 linear type program, and then no more than 4 hours mixed between the other disciplines at no more than tempo/SST intensity 'till you get healed and have a full ROM. If you're doing the lifting right, that will be plenty in the first two weeks. And if choosing between recovering from lifting or from cardio, skip or downplay the cardio work initially so that you can keep adding weight. Once the huge soreness goes away (1week or so) you can push the bike/run a little more, but I wouldn't go into full fledged base (FTP or otherwise) until you meet certain strength and ROM benchmarks. An arbitrary one would be to squat your weight 8-10 times, with good form, and be able to deadlift 1.25x body weight 5x properly. Once you get to that point, you're in maintenance mode--the point is not to be huge, but to be able to take the pounding of long miles, hours in the saddle, etc. Once you start approaching body weight-type benchmarks, then cut the lifting back and add more SBR. Gains will happen very, very quickly once your muscles are firing properly.
There are wide opinions on this topic, and I'm coming at it from the standpoint of somebody who is undoing the harm of a decade of sitting at work. Creating a basic strength level has helped me a lot.
YMMV.
owner: world's tightest psoas (TM)
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [rumpole]
[ In reply to ]
http://www.kinetic-revolution.com/30daychallenge/
That is a quite decent set of exercises that focuses on the hips a lot.
That is a quite decent set of exercises that focuses on the hips a lot.
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [NUFCrichard]
[ In reply to ]
You've received some excellent advice from replies, so I won't bang on too much, just to add encouragement that psoas issues can be overcome with strength / stretch work.
I was about to ask if you'd had any back problems, as it sounded similar to my situation a few years ago - then I saw you mention it. My lower back issue and psoas pain when running with power were directly linked. Tight psoas tugging on unhappy facet joints in the spine.
Regular work on stretch / flexibility nailed the hip and back pain in 2-3 weeks, and I was back into my preparation for the Boston marathon. Here's the stretch that made all the difference to me (page down to psoas) - in time I modified this bench-based stretch to the upright kneeling stretch version as I improved.
https://experiencelife.com/article/smart-stretching/
My two cents on ART rather than strength / stretch : nothing wrong with trying to alleviate symptoms. Just make sure you address the strength imbalance as well!!
Good luck
I was about to ask if you'd had any back problems, as it sounded similar to my situation a few years ago - then I saw you mention it. My lower back issue and psoas pain when running with power were directly linked. Tight psoas tugging on unhappy facet joints in the spine.
Regular work on stretch / flexibility nailed the hip and back pain in 2-3 weeks, and I was back into my preparation for the Boston marathon. Here's the stretch that made all the difference to me (page down to psoas) - in time I modified this bench-based stretch to the upright kneeling stretch version as I improved.
https://experiencelife.com/article/smart-stretching/
My two cents on ART rather than strength / stretch : nothing wrong with trying to alleviate symptoms. Just make sure you address the strength imbalance as well!!
Good luck
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [dizzyingpaces]
[ In reply to ]
i've recently (again) stumbled upon a blogger (something this amazing day) and she suffered a LOT with many psoas, IT, etc issues. this might be of use to you...
http://www.runthisamazingday.com/...look-no-further.html
http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit
http://www.runthisamazingday.com/...look-no-further.html
http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [rumpole]
[ In reply to ]
rumpole wrote:
There could be several causes for this--and I've had em all (see tag line). I'm about 15 years older, so here's what I would advise you to do having never met you and not being a doctor nor playing one on TV. Those imbalances in the psoas and hip flexor could be caused by a number of things, and a good physio will help you diagnose them. Listen to your physio first. If you don't get better, then find another physio. Unless you're getting paid to do this, it's a hobby, not a living. Mine is a firm believer (and in my case he was right) in that learning to squat properly teaches you not only how your muscles work, but will help you diagnose weaknesses. That exercise (done properly) causes your medius and hamstrings and everything else to fire in the proper order, and causes the abs to engage in their proper stabilizing role.
I would be willing to hazard a guess that you might have a hard time squatting your weight with proper form five times. If, when doing these squats, you feel weakness in your groin when under heavy load, it may also be that scar tissue has partially adhered your adductors to your hamstrings. Go to work on them with a tiger tail or have your physio do some graston if you're feeling masochistic. Your A race is months away. Back off the intensity (you will burn out), do some strength training and tempo work and focus on getting the body ready for the load. Then ramp it back up.
You're in good shape, and have plenty of time before a summer race. That your coach is demanding snot on the floor at all costs now seems to me to be completely insane--both because of the injury, and because of the mental strain. Yes, an FTP focus is great (reverse periodization will work) but that only works if your body (and mind) can handle the intensity. You're not strong enough. Back off the intensity AND the volume, heal, and get stronger. Sweet spot-type/tempo intervals will maintain your fitness without burning you out.
The strength/healing phase would take 6-8 weeks, and the lifting will hurt in the beginning. Then put the speed on top of that strength and just maintain the strength. At your age, you may not even need to lift to maintain that baseline once you establish it. So try this -- have the physio sort your issues, and hit 3 lifting sessions per week on a 3x5 linear type program, and then no more than 4 hours mixed between the other disciplines at no more than tempo/SST intensity 'till you get healed and have a full ROM. If you're doing the lifting right, that will be plenty in the first two weeks. And if choosing between recovering from lifting or from cardio, skip or downplay the cardio work initially so that you can keep adding weight. Once the huge soreness goes away (1week or so) you can push the bike/run a little more, but I wouldn't go into full fledged base (FTP or otherwise) until you meet certain strength and ROM benchmarks. An arbitrary one would be to squat your weight 8-10 times, with good form, and be able to deadlift 1.25x body weight 5x properly. Once you get to that point, you're in maintenance mode--the point is not to be huge, but to be able to take the pounding of long miles, hours in the saddle, etc. Once you start approaching body weight-type benchmarks, then cut the lifting back and add more SBR. Gains will happen very, very quickly once your muscles are firing properly.
There are wide opinions on this topic, and I'm coming at it from the standpoint of somebody who is undoing the harm of a decade of sitting at work. Creating a basic strength level has helped me a lot.
YMMV.
Hey rumpole, thanks for the feedback, what your describing above is very aligned with what I am doing now and have been doing the last 2-3 weeks. I've dropped intensity, and volume, with primary focus moving to correcting muscle imbalance and weakness in core/hip and hamstrings.
you recommend body weight squats… i have not done a squat in a few years because I always end up straining my back when attempting even lower weights. I have been doing a hack press and leg press in my strength workouts and I believe I'm getting a lot out of them despite what many people say about the overall functionality of these types of lifts.
I have a really brutal core and hip circuit that addresses every target muscle group that is an issue and the more time I put into those core and hip sessions the more solid I am feeling with increases in intensity.
You mentioned deadlifts, those are something I don't do at all for a long time, what is the theory regarding what the dead lift does to improve the chain
Chasing dreams I've yet to have
-Swear I'm fast for a slow guy
FTP (20 min) 260W @ 165 lb
10K 41:46
Re: PSOAS HIP FLEXOR Pain/Tightness ... Weakness [dizzyingpaces]
[ In reply to ]
Haha you just went from one coach. To everyone on slowtwitch that has yet to see you swim,bike,run, Test your strength or see your bike fit. Best of luck. Hope you get it delt with and reach your goals.
Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
Triathletetoth wrote:
Haha you just went from one coach. To everyone on slowtwitch that has yet to see you swim,bike,run, Test your strength or see your bike fit. Best of luck. Hope you get it delt with and reach your goals.I actually trust a blind community with limited knowledge of me and great knowledge of the sport from a myriad of differing perspectives more than the supposed insight of a coach with alleged inside knowledge of my performAnce and skill levels and limiters.
I've had 3 coaches in 5 months and all have cost me cumulatively about 2.5 months of training due to speed work running injuries. They all had all the access they needed to gauge how I was responding to the speed work and all bull headed themselves right on through until to much high intensity took me out of consistent training.
Chasing dreams I've yet to have
-Swear I'm fast for a slow guy
FTP (20 min) 260W @ 165 lb
10K 41:46