There are plenty of great bike positioning coaches and their services can usually be had for less than the price of a single very cheap alloy wheel. Think of how good a bargain that is!

I would suggest you ask Slowman for the name of a fitter in your area. Get someone who's invested in learning the craft, and maybe even someone who discusses his art openly with the community. But definitely get a good fitter.

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AndyF
bike geek

You need to be able to angle both the pads and the extensions together for proper support. It's better just to angle the entire bar if you can't adjust the extensions and pads independently of the base bar. I haven't come across a bar yet that we haven't seen some positive results with drag-wise. Not as good as keeping the base bar level, but we still end up with a net gain. Of course, the moment I say that, I'll test someone for whom it's slower!

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

I can send you data on 1 person where it didn't work. Another where it's not better, but for the most part we found the same thing in the tunnel when we went.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

So what you are stating here is that tilting the alpha bar up just a bit to achieve a higher hand position (mantis-esque) is worth it in the net +/- cda game? Is that with the 16* rise extensions that come with the bar?

Given the "problem" with integrated base bars (more specifically their non pitch adjustable 22.2 inserts) as well as the ventus, alpha, USE tula, etc, I've spoken with a manufacturer about producing 22.2 carbon extensions that allow for mantis positioning without sacrificing (in the case of the 31.8 bars) base bar angle. Would this higher hand position while maintaining flat base bar be even more beneficial or lead to what Dave alluded to when he said a single blob with a slightly more aero bottom part of the blob or would this allow for the hand blob and the aero base bar blob?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I've had cases where the tilt netted out to zero gain, possibly worse, whether it was due to the increases in base bar attack angle I can't say. I put forearm angle in the basket of things definitely worth trying where you have the equipment suitable for testing but I don't expect anything better than an even chance of demonstrating an improvement in either aero or performance.

Yeah, sorry, I worded that incorrectly. What I meant was we haven't seen a base bar yet penalize the athlete beyond the gains we've seen. We've been lucky so far on that every time we've angled a base bar, the change has resulted in positive gains but, yes, not everyone sees a gain from upturned forearms.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Wouldn't you say that SuperDave's observation about aero risers sheds some light on which riders are most likely to gain from angling the forearms up, though?

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AndyF
bike geek

I can't think of anyone we've tried this on lately that had any kind of significant risers. You know, maybe because the frames are too tall and they don't need them! ;-)

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Haha... good one! :-)

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AndyF
bike geek

This is a perennial problem I see, unable to actually test a position suitably low enough at the front because riders' bikes are already slammed. Then when the front of bike is low enough, it's often a fraction too short for the rider.

I do so hate having to swap out pad risers though. Far more convenient to test with simple stem spacers.

angling the bars up is not an option with the integrated vision bars (I bet those bars are every fitters dream ;-) ) but since I like grabbing the top of the l-bends that would not work anyway as that would increase the arm angle as well. like this it is at 10° which feels good and is in the range you saw good results right?

but being an engineering student with excess to the machine shop it wasn't too hard to build an angled spacer. I also wanted to get a little higher anyway so I included 5mm of raise. The pads only required a little widening of the holes to accumulate with angled screws.

It feels a lot better now (pressure wise) but I haven't taking it to the road yet. Also I might keep the planet-x pads as they have a bit more lateral support compared to the vision ones.

http://www.directupload.net/...790/4gg39yp7_jpg.htm

also I just bought a 2nd hand P4 frame which should fit very well. build up with these bars and the wheels I already have (H3 and comete disc) I don't think I am giving up much to a superbike anyway

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...men_-_bike_4728.html

How many guys over 6 feet tall riding small and medium frames?

If a guy that is 6'1" rides a small, what does a guy that is 5'6" ride.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

looking at most of those pics i'd say lots of them need more reach. but then i'm a huge long and low fan. They size down to get stack low enough. FWIW i'm still on a 58 P3C at 6'2 with zero stack and 140mm stem and no pad rise. can't really move to any other frame!

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Yep, stack rules all, and when you are short, with these new frames, you can't get low enough.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes