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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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2 rumors have been floating around, Mexico or south Africa.





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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [iank] [ In reply to ]
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iank wrote:
Read that, Dave. That's about including NCAA portions of races. I suspect draft legal races for people who aren't collegiate women will come soon and probably follow a similar process, but this isn't it.
Glad to see they are saying it must be closed, looped course.

Yes, however we're getting to this place now where DL courses are needed - for collegiate women, for junior development and for age group nationals/worlds qualification. This helps justify an RD in creating that opportunity. If it were just one of those entities there would be no reason to do it (save for the love of the sport). Even with all three categories in need of racing opportunities the numbers will be very small and hard for an RD to make any profit on this type of race alone.

Ian

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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [JimmyRiccitello] [ In reply to ]
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JimmyRiccitello wrote:
Until I learn otherwise, making the age-group sprint race draft legal seems like a cop-out to me (or possibly a way to further their agenda of the inclusion of draft legal sprint tri or relay in the Olympics?). In other words, it doesn't seem like the inclusion of draft legal age-group sprint W/C came about due to massive interest from the age-groupers. It seems like an organizer, country, National Federation, or International Federation felt like it'd be a good idea - for them, more so than for the athletes.

Just my opinion - I could be wrong.

^^ Bingo! Agree completely.
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I agree completely. I was in Detroit, where the men's EDR/AG combined race had about 35 total, and the women had only 10. Fortunately there was a healthy nondraft race to subsidize us.
I did see at Rev3 Rush that it can absolutely work, especially if athletes get the chance to try multiple times and it's short, because then they just realize how fun it really is.

IG: idking90
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
2 rumors have been floating around, Mexico or south Africa.




I had heard South Africa... I'd be more excited about Mexico, as it's more realistic for me in terms of travel. Though there is that pesky business of qualifying, either way. ;)
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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"My worry is the creation of local and regional DL races ..."


"That's what we CANNOT have, we cannot have a situation where we ask an RD to put on a DL event and then 1 person shows up."

I don't know if you were at Rev3 Rush in Richmond earlier this year, I thought it was a great attempt to expand the sport, in the direction of DL for age-groupers and also a different format. I liked the way they framed the DL concept, as something that was just part of the race without pushing it as the "main" feature. There were some logistical concerns that were discussed in this forum, but overall I thought the event was phenomenal.

Now, the level attendance wasn't the greatest, which, as you imply, will kill a race eventually. The event is being planned again for next year, hopefully participation will increase.
Last edited by: JEI: Oct 23, 14 12:34
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [JEI] [ In reply to ]
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JEI wrote:
"My worry is the creation of local and regional DL races ..."


"That's what we CANNOT have, we cannot have a situation where we ask an RD to put on a DL event and then 1 person shows up."

I don't know if you were at Rev3 Rush in Richmond earlier this year, I thought it was a great attempt to expand the sport, in the direction of DL for age-groupers and also a different format. I liked the way they framed the DL concept, as something that was just part of the race without pushing it as the "main" feature. There were some logistical concerns that were discussed in this forum, but overall I thought the event was phenomenal.

Now, the level attendance wasn't the greatest, which, as you imply, will kill a race eventually. The event is being planned again for next year, hopefully participation will increase.

I didn't say what you quoted.

jaretj
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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There are already disadvantages and advantages to different waves in non draft racing for overall awards. This year at sprint nationals I went in the first wave and lead the entire race. Anyone staring in waves behind me would have had the advantage of drafting in the swim and passing slower athletes throughout the ride vs my true solo effort. In a wave-start race the overall awards are already pretty meaningless, in draft-legal it would be stupid to have an overall award at all. You can only race the people you are racing against. I am a fan of making DL a separate event and keeping the non draft sprint, but maybe have categories instead of age groups for the DL race to allow the best athletes to race each other.

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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [JEI] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, the reply was meant for Ian Peace, I was quoting him. I probably saw his message in your reply to him and accidentally replied to you.
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I think the addition of more draft-legal races is great for the sport and I think it can make for a fun alternative at Nationals/ Worlds.

A couple thoughts are:
* no way that USAT is going to replace current sprint nationals. Too many participants would be lost (and their revenue). I think adding DL waves would be more practical.
* I think a "normal" course would work best, as I don't think it's practical to have a "crit" style format, with a large number of waves, and the problems of intermingling of packs.
* I don't think it's going to look anything like pro ITU racing. Thinking that is the same as thinking that a Cat IV race is going to have tactics similar to the TdF. The gaps in swim are going to be much larger (even in large AG's) and many people would probably still ride faster solo, than they would in a small pack. I don't know how many people have ever done a team time trial, but it takes some practice and cooperation to go significantly faster. Many people will also want to sit-in, and not work very hard.
* At a national-type race, I don't think you can allow age-groups to intermingle, but that shouldn't be an issue in a sprint race, with 7mins (or so) between waves. It will be very hard to officiate that aspect, although if officials no longer need to call drafting, blocking, etc, that could be more of a focus.
* At regional type races, I think you are going to have to allow multi age-group waves and intermingling. Just not enough people to make a reasonable field. Making draft-legal type festivals, with Collegiate and Junior options (maybe DL Duathlon?) would be a great way to drive participation.
* It's hard to imagine having very strict standards for qualification. The only nationals you have to qualify for now is Oly Distance. Safety will be a bigger concern in DL, but could probably go with a simple "check box": have you done a DL triathlon or mass-start USA Cycling event?
* I'd prefer that equipment rules would be same as for other ITU events, but could see a reasonable rule being: no riding in aerobars while in the pack. Easy to enforce and requiring much less equipment.

Is the word that a DL sprint race at World's will replace the non-drafting sprint? It seems like they'd be risking losing some participation (and revenue). I know drafting is more common and accepted in other countries, but the US team would be drastically smaller.

My strength is typically my cycling and I'm an above-average swimmer but I think DL would be great to try. If I look at my race at '13 Sprint Nationals, I think there's a good chance I would have finished higher in a DL format, even with a poor run.

Now what would really be interesting is to do a draft-legal Aquabike, or tri with Swim-Run-Bike format!

John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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New info on USAT site: The 2015 USA Triathlon Sprint National Championships in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, will remain a non-drafting race in accordance with USA Triathlon Competitive Rules. If a sprint draft-legal triathlon is added to the 2016 ITU World Championships schedule, a separate qualifier will be held to allow athletes to earn spots on Team USA for that particular event. Details regarding such an event would be made available following the official ITU announcement of the 2016 Age Group World Championships, inclusive of full details regarding format.

Additionally, USA Triathlon has asked the ITU to consider continuing to hold the traditional non-drafting sprint event even if a draft-legal event is added to the program. This would allow the top finishers from Sprint Nationals in Milwaukee to qualify for Team USA as has been done in the past.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/...hips/event-info.aspx
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Nice catch Mark. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

That news will satisfy many who plan for Sprint Nationals to be a season peak. Now we'll have to wait for ITU to make a firm decision on Sprint Worlds. My guess is that decision will come out in tandem with the location.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
New info on USAT site: The 2015 USA Triathlon Sprint National Championships in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, will remain a non-drafting race in accordance with USA Triathlon Competitive Rules. If a sprint draft-legal triathlon is added to the 2016 ITU World Championships schedule, a separate qualifier will be held to allow athletes to earn spots on Team USA for that particular event. Details regarding such an event would be made available following the official ITU announcement of the 2016 Age Group World Championships, inclusive of full details regarding format.

Additionally, USA Triathlon has asked the ITU to consider continuing to hold the traditional non-drafting sprint event even if a draft-legal event is added to the program. This would allow the top finishers from Sprint Nationals in Milwaukee to qualify for Team USA as has been done in the past.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/...hips/event-info.aspx

Yep, basically what I was told by all the USAT folks at Edmonton and what I have tried many times to say here.

As I said, too many are putting too much energy into this. Until ITU gives details, time to relax.
.




Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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That was your 8th posting (of 62) on this thread. Are you really accusing others that they "are putting too much energy into this."? :)

John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence
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Re: A Qualification Process Toward Draft Legal Age Group Sprint Worlds [tripence] [ In reply to ]
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tripence wrote:
That was your 8th posting (of 62) on this thread. Are you really accusing others that they "are putting too much energy into this."? :)

Yep, :o)





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