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Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave
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Superdave, I have completed a bike fit and am interested in the B12 (maybe B14). I have a very tall front end fit. I have an elbow pad stack of 770 mm and a reach of 530 mm. Seat stack is also 770 mm. I can't seem to find details of the Bayonnet 3 dimensions and possible adjustments. No local shops have B12/B14 to look at. I think with a size 61 frame if I used a 25 degree stem flipped up, 120 mm length, and a 40 mm spacer on the aerobar my pad position is pretty close. Is it possible for you to check that? Can the elbow pads be mounted ahead of the base bar?Would you have any other recommendation?

At each shop I have visited I get a deer in the headlights look when I start to talk about stack and reach. I think I'm on my own for getting this right.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [Caymanskier] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if handling would be safe or even comfortable, given this configuration.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [Caymanskier] [ In reply to ]
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Caymanskier wrote:
Superdave, I have completed a bike fit and am interested in the B12 (maybe B14). I have a very tall front end fit. I have an elbow pad stack of 770 mm and a reach of 530 mm. Seat stack is also 770 mm. I can't seem to find details of the Bayonnet 3 dimensions and possible adjustments. No local shops have B12/B14 to look at. I think with a size 61 frame if I used a 25 degree stem flipped up, 120 mm length, and a 40 mm spacer on the aerobar my pad position is pretty close. Is it possible for you to check that? Can the elbow pads be mounted ahead of the base bar?Would you have any other recommendation?

At each shop I have visited I get a deer in the headlights look when I start to talk about stack and reach. I think I'm on my own for getting this right.

Thanks for your help.

You're going to be pretty upright but the stack of the front end on a 61cm can accommodate 770mm height. You might also consider risers under the arm rests and a more upright bend on the extensions.
The elbow pads can indeed be mounted in front of the extension mounts for the base bar. They can be mounted anywhere along the extension length.

In total you get over 115mm of vertical adjustment with the Bayonet3 bars and of course the steerer and stem can add greater flexibility, too.

What bike are you riding now with such a high stack and do you have an injury that would prevent you working toward a lower position?

Taking that much weight off the front of the bike and bringing the reach to 530mm is going to result in less than ideal handling. I'm curious if you are riding a bike set up that way now?

-Dave

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [Caymanskier] [ In reply to ]
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People with comfort related issues can have great success on a road bike. The loss in aerodynamics is made up for in the variety of positions.
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SD- I did a GURU Fit so I know the fit numbers are comfortable. They also agree pretty close to a road bike I have set up. Since I started racing Tri's I moved to bikes with more of a Tri fit. The road bike has a forward facing seat post and a steerer tube riser. Yes it is a pretty upright position. But I do like it more than riding on the hoods.The handling is poorer than my Tri bike but I don't go down hills at break neck sppeds. I have pretty tight hamstrings, a touchy lower back, and a recent bone spur in the neck. I was riding a Cannondale Slice 56 cm. I had an adjustable stem on the front. A set of Profile Design T1 aerobars on the front set all the way forward. It always felt small and tight in the front end. The bone spur kicked up and my orthopedic (also a Tri guy) was shocked at the size bike I was on. I'm 6'1" and he thought I would need to go up a couple of sizes. He was pushing me to get a GURU fit to make sure I got the right front end position.

How do you get the 115 mm of adj on the aero bars? And is this 115 mm over a minimum height? Just wanting to know the combinations of options.
Since the stack and reach are to the head tube, the steerer tube gives me another say 25 mm for spacers and about 20 mm half way up the stem?
So if I put on a 25 deg stem I think I gain about (25 + 17 from fork angle) degrees rise?
Does the 530 mm reach seem extreme? Unusually long?

Thanks!
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [Caymanskier] [ In reply to ]
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Caymanskier wrote:
SD- I did a GURU Fit so I know the fit numbers are comfortable. They also agree pretty close to a road bike I have set up. Since I started racing Tri's I moved to bikes with more of a Tri fit. The road bike has a forward facing seat post and a steerer tube riser. Yes it is a pretty upright position. But I do like it more than riding on the hoods.The handling is poorer than my Tri bike but I don't go down hills at break neck sppeds. I have pretty tight hamstrings, a touchy lower back, and a recent bone spur in the neck. I was riding a Cannondale Slice 56 cm. I had an adjustable stem on the front. A set of Profile Design T1 aerobars on the front set all the way forward. It always felt small and tight in the front end. The bone spur kicked up and my orthopedic (also a Tri guy) was shocked at the size bike I was on. I'm 6'1" and he thought I would need to go up a couple of sizes. He was pushing me to get a GURU fit to make sure I got the right front end position.

How do you get the 115 mm of adj on the aero bars? And is this 115 mm over a minimum height? Just wanting to know the combinations of options.
Since the stack and reach are to the head tube, the steerer tube gives me another say 25 mm for spacers and about 20 mm half way up the stem?
So if I put on a 25 deg stem I think I gain about (25 + 17 from fork angle) degrees rise?
Does the 530 mm reach seem extreme? Unusually long?

Thanks!

115mm is the total range from the lowest postion to the highest.

Yes, +25 degree stems are on the extreme side. 530mm reach isn't overly excessive depending on the rest of your posture on the bike.

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Superdave, what is the minimum stack of the elbow pads from the top tube "stack" dimension shown in the geometry charts?

Thanks!
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [Caymanskier] [ In reply to ]
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Caymanskier wrote:
Superdave, what is the minimum stack of the elbow pads from the top tube "stack" dimension shown in the geometry charts?

Thanks!
8mm + 44mm/2 = 30mm.
-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SuperDave wrote:
Caymanskier wrote:
Superdave, what is the minimum stack of the elbow pads from the top tube "stack" dimension shown in the geometry charts?

Thanks!
8mm + 44mm/2 = 30mm.
-SD

Hi SD,
From http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._from_Felt_3202.html and http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._B12_2013__3186.html I got that the lowest the elbow pads could be was 3cm (to center of base bar from stack measurement point) plus 6cm (lowest config of elbow pads above base bar), totaling 9cm. Have the specs changed, are you referring to different measurement points, or is Slowman wrong?
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Also: the link for the alloy Bayonet 3 on this page: http://www.feltbicycles.com/...lt/Manuals/Road.aspx is wrong I believe.
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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The arm rests can be mounted flush with the top of the base bar by running the extensions under the base bar by flipping the clip on mounts and the arm rests flush with the top of the base bar either in front of or behind the base bar itself.

That option was omitted in the references you've pointed out much to my dismay. Also it is worth noting this type of arrangement is exactly what guys like ERO sports and others that complain that our revised tri geometry is too upright for an aggressive TT-type position.

This is a good example executed in the same way with a Profile bar. The non-drive side is the position I've described above.


Another example of a frankenbar set up below the base bar:



-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks SD! I'm now convinced a 56 will work perfectly for me.
Now I only have to decide if 2013 b12 on sale or 2015 b14 is the best option. The price would be the same.
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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earnstrom wrote:
Thanks SD! I'm now convinced a 56 will work perfectly for me.
Now I only have to decide if 2013 b12 on sale or 2015 b14 is the best option. The price would be the same.

I would seriously consider the 11 speed bike. Aerodynamically there is no difference in the frames but you'll be better off future-proofing your drivetrain a bit by starting with 11 speed chainrings and freehubs. You could upgrade to Di2 next year and only need the shifters and derailleurs. You'll also be able to find replacement parts much easier than hunting down older tech (10s) as wear items need servicing.

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, but my road bike is 10sp di2 and unlikely to be upgraded. Would be nice to share race wheels...
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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earnstrom wrote:
Yes, but my road bike is 10sp di2 and unlikely to be upgraded. Would be nice to share race wheels...

Ah, I see. Obviously your situation is different. I should have stopped trying to be helpful.

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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No, I appreciate it. I was maybe looking for some non-obvious differences between old b12 and new b14. As far as I can see it's the shifters and the cranks basically? The more aero front brake and better seat post only comes with b12 right?
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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earnstrom wrote:
The more aero front brake and better seat post only comes with b12 right?

Yes, sir.

-SD
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SuperDave wrote:
Caymanskier wrote:
Superdave, what is the minimum stack of the elbow pads from the top tube "stack" dimension shown in the geometry charts?

Thanks!
8mm + 44mm/2 = 30mm.
-SD

Hi again,

Taking a few steps back in the thread. I got the 2013 version of the b12 (a very good deal and better looking paintjob IMO together with the compatibility with my 10sp roadbike swayed me).
I see that the manual for the alu aerobar is now available on the Felt site, very nice thank you.

I am still confused on the spacers issue. These are what my bike was delivered with (which seems to match what the specs say on the Felt site):

Which of the spacers are required? I assume one of the cone spacers must be there, but without the larger one I must cut the steerer tube right away?

Also, what is the small bottle containing xylene meant for? If it's touch up paint, why does it seem to be clear?
Last edited by: earnstrom: Oct 8, 14 17:42
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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earnstrom wrote:
SuperDave wrote:
Caymanskier wrote:
Superdave, what is the minimum stack of the elbow pads from the top tube "stack" dimension shown in the geometry charts?

Thanks!

8mm + 44mm/2 = 30mm.
-SD

Hi again,
Taking a few steps back in the thread. I got the 2013 version of the b12 (a very good deal and better looking paintjob IMO together with the compatibility with my 10sp roadbike swayed me).
I see that the manual for the alu aerobar is now available on the Felt site, very nice thank you.
I am still confused on the spacers issue. These are what my bike was delivered with (which seems to match what the specs say on the Felt site):

Which of the spacers are required? I assume one of the cone spacers must be there, but without the larger one I must cut the steerer tube right away?
Also, what is the small bottle containing xylene meant for? If it's touch up paint, why does it seem to be clear?

The photo does not appear on your post. I'd advise you work through the manual with your dealer so they can assist in identifying which parts are needed. Using the correct length bolts is critical and making sure you engage the aero nut inside the mounting bracket with both bolts being torqued little by little is critical.

-Dave

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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I hope the picture shows now, I was very confused by your answer until I realized that without it, it seemed like I was talking about the aerobar and not the stem and headset spacers. I'll try and clarify my questions:
1. The bike was delivered with the small cone spacer below the large one. Am I right to assume that the large one doesn't work without the small one (it doesn't fit very well on the head tube), and if I want to use only the small one I will have to either find another spacer or cut the steerer tube?
2. The small bottle containing xylene, with clear color, what is it for?
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Re: Felt B12 Fit - Need Help Superdave [earnstrom] [ In reply to ]
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earnstrom wrote:
I hope the picture shows now, I was very confused by your answer until I realized that without it, it seemed like I was talking about the aerobar and not the stem and headset spacers. I'll try and clarify my questions:
1. The bike was delivered with the small cone spacer below the large one. Am I right to assume that the large one doesn't work without the small one (it doesn't fit very well on the head tube), and if I want to use only the small one I will have to either find another spacer or cut the steerer tube?
2. The small bottle containing xylene, with clear color, what is it for?

Sorry, I understand now.

The large cone spacer is just a cosmetically more attractive headset spacer. It is used with the smaller, thinner one below it. If you want to use the small one, you can just add standard headset spacers before cutting the steerer.

The touch up paint is clear because the bike only uses clear paint, the colors on the finish are decals, not paint.

-Dave

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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