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LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h?
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I kid you not - this is a serious question (if it goes down in ST history like the "how do I make flat coke" post, so be it).

I will be using the LG P-09 in a few weeks, which, as claimed by LG / tested by eros, is worse with the air vent *plugged* when going slower than 37 km/h, and better / faster with the vent *open* when going faster than 37 km/h. Projected bike would be 5:15 - 5:20.

The obvious answer to the subject line would be "look at your bike computer. Number greater than 37? Unplug." But I think the headwinds on the return (or elsewhere) would colour that ... I might be riding far slower than a 37 km/h groundspeed into a strong headwind, which ostensibly would make the plugged option preferable based on the groundspeed that my noggin and the p-09 are experiencing. However, the airspeed / the wind hitting the helmet might be more than 37 km/h, making the open vent preferable.

So I want to selectively plug or unplug the vent at certain points. Not constantly switching - maybe a few times at obvious landmarks.

At what points would be preferred "unplugged" legs of the bike? I would guess:
-First 30 k
-descent from Hawi

Where else?
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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Are you planning to wear the visor? Fastest "average" across all yaws was no plug and no visor. I'd go that route and forget using the plug. My guess is you either wreck or cause a wreck removing/reinstalling plug multiple times during the race.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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No visor. And the plug is insanely easy to pull out/put in ... I would put it somewhere in the 'distraction range' as grabbing a gel from an open bento box. I'm thinking remove / reinstall maybe 6 - 8 times over the course of the bike leg, and at predetermined times.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I will be using the LG P-09 in a few weeks, which, as claimed by LG / tested by eros, is worse with the air vent *plugged* when going slower than 37 km/h, and better / faster with the vent *open* when going faster than 37 km/h. Projected bike would be 5:15 - 5:20.

well, reading the way you state it(which is not the way anyone else states it) you'd never need the plug. :)

seriously, why in the heck would you want to remove/reinstall/store this thing? looks like an easy way to lose it, so might as well just start that way, with it lost.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
I kid you not - this is a serious question (if it goes down in ST history like the "how do I make flat coke" post, so be it).

I will be using the LG P-09 in a few weeks, which, as claimed by LG / tested by eros, is worse with the air vent *plugged* when going slower than 37 km/h, and better / faster with the vent *open* when going faster than 37 km/h. Projected bike would be 5:15 - 5:20.

The obvious answer to the subject line would be "look at your bike computer. Number greater than 37? Unplug." But I think the headwinds on the return (or elsewhere) would colour that ... I might be riding far slower than a 37 km/h groundspeed into a strong headwind, which ostensibly would make the plugged option preferable based on the groundspeed that my noggin and the p-09 are experiencing. However, the airspeed / the wind hitting the helmet might be more than 37 km/h, making the open vent preferable.

So I want to selectively plug or unplug the vent at certain points. Not constantly switching - maybe a few times at obvious landmarks.

At what points would be preferred "unplugged" legs of the bike? I would guess:
-First 30 k
-descent from Hawi

Where else?

Ground speed has zero to do with aerodynamics. if you are riding 30 kph into a 40 kph wind, your helmet is 70 kph wind flow. This is what matters.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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While these sorts of details are important ( when all added up), typically it's bigger more impactful things that make a day great or horrible at Ironman Hawaii.

Know that for many the run really becomes a death march in Hawaii - combination of the heat/humidity and over-zealous pacing on the bike early on. A solid run at any Ironman always makes for a great performance. At Kona this is doubly the case. So whatever you do, whatever equipment and gear choices you make, running the run strong, and steady will yield the biggest performance gains.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
I kid you not - this is a serious question (if it goes down in ST history like the "how do I make flat coke" post, so be it).

I will be using the LG P-09 in a few weeks, which, as claimed by LG / tested by eros, is worse with the air vent *plugged* when going slower than 37 km/h, and better / faster with the vent *open* when going faster than 37 km/h. Projected bike would be 5:15 - 5:20.

The obvious answer to the subject line would be "look at your bike computer. Number greater than 37? Unplug." But I think the headwinds on the return (or elsewhere) would colour that ... I might be riding far slower than a 37 km/h groundspeed into a strong headwind, which ostensibly would make the plugged option preferable based on the groundspeed that my noggin and the p-09 are experiencing. However, the airspeed / the wind hitting the helmet might be more than 37 km/h, making the open vent preferable.

So I want to selectively plug or unplug the vent at certain points. Not constantly switching - maybe a few times at obvious landmarks.

At what points would be preferred "unplugged" legs of the bike? I would guess:
-First 30 k
-descent from Hawi

Where else?

If this is a serious question, then you have to find out how much faster it is in both cases, then subtract the cost of actually doing the movement itself, that will cost you something dragwise and even if you are already grabbing a gel. Then you have to factor in the chance for a littering penalty and any other major snafu that results. IMO, I would not bother.


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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I love this forum.. always makes me feel sane
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that the marginal gain of in/out would be offset by reaching up and coming out of position in the first place. I think the greater gain of the system would be leaving it out for the headwind concerns as well as dealing with the heat in Hawaii through better cooling throughout the bike.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [LOW2000] [ In reply to ]
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LOW2000 wrote:
I agree that the marginal gain of in/out would be offset by reaching up and coming out of position in the first place. I think the greater gain of the system would be leaving it out for the headwind concerns as well as dealing with the heat in Hawaii through better cooling throughout the bike.


Yep, there's that, too.

But if making the *perfect* choice between plugged and unplugged netted, say, 60 accumulated seconds of gain overall, and to achieve this, I had to swap 6 times at one-time aero costs of 1 second per switch, I'm still ahead, right? And aside from the *perfect* choice wildcard, these numbers probably are not too unrealistic, yes?
Last edited by: davetallo: Sep 22, 14 10:34
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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I can totally appreciate psychotic what-if'ing. Part of my personality as well.


With a lack of evidence, I'm going to make a wild assumption that the difference between plug in and plug out is pretty small, ESPECIALLY when you're nominally hovering around this transition speed. That'd suggest to me that the benefit of one vs the other is quite low, and while the cost of complicating your bike leg are small as well, I'd stick with picking the side that you're going to spend more of the bike leg in (time-wise, which is even more likely to be the slower part) and leave it as such.

One fewer thing to worry about--set and forget. The less thinking one has to do during a race, the better.

And, Fleck, while your point is a good one, it's quite tangential to the question at hand. Core temps and helmet choices seem to matter, but studies suggest otherwise.

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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The wind in the vicinity of your head is not going to arbitrarily change 6 times over 5 hours between the hypothetical sweet spots for each configuration. It's going to change potentially many dozens of times - it's swirly. Just leave the plug at home and ride, trying to stay in the aero bars as much as you can.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [Derf] [ In reply to ]
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Derf wrote:
I can totally appreciate psychotic what-if'ing. Part of my personality as well.


With a lack of evidence, I'm going to make a wild assumption that the difference between plug in and plug out is pretty small, ESPECIALLY when you're nominally hovering around this transition speed. That'd suggest to me that the benefit of one vs the other is quite low, and while the cost of complicating your bike leg are small as well, I'd stick with picking the side that you're going to spend more of the bike leg in (time-wise, which is even more likely to be the slower part) and leave it as such.

One fewer thing to worry about--set and forget. The less thinking one has to do during a race, the better.

And, Fleck, while your point is a good one, it's quite tangential to the question at hand. Core temps and helmet choices seem to matter, but studies suggest otherwise.

I hear you ... and there is evidence @ http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...string=hawi;#4749995; it's just that we're lacking the degree of difference. But if it were enough to be picked up on the track, it's gotta be something.
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, but it also seems like the Alphamantis setup is pretty sensitive--so the effect could be significant, albeit pretty small.

The significance may also be rather idiopathic--which means you really should test the effect yourself. Seems like a relatively clean/easy Chung test, given nothing needs to change beyond your effort. If the effect is below your testing sensitivity, then that says a lot as well.

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [Derf] [ In reply to ]
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ok. Thanks, all. Not as bad a shellacking as I was expecting!
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
ok. Thanks, all. Not as bad a shellacking as I was expecting!

Now that you've sorted that out... there are 2 methods:
- heat the coke until all the CO2 is gone, then fill into water bottles to cool overnight, or
- shake in a water bottle the morning of. (CAUTION: you need 30 TSS points to spare for this)

AndyF
bike geek
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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3Aims wrote:
Fastest "average" across all yaws was no plug and no visor.

Can you direct me to this information? Thanks!

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

…………………………………….5 10 15



Plug and Sunglasses……….-40 -140 -109


No Plug and Sunglasses… -120 -120 -140


No Plug and Visor……………-35 -40 -95
Plug and Visor………………-152 -82 -140
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Re: LG P-09: Where on Kona course is my noggin hitting the wind @ >37km/h? [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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perfect, thanks.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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