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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [justarunner] [ In reply to ]
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justarunner wrote:
I will withhold judgement from the RD, the race, and the race management company and just say what I know.

1) I met the RD recently at one of his other races, he is very talented and a great guy. He puts on superb events.

2) The RD for this race is contracted out by the race management company.

3) The race management company has a reputation.

4) The RD does not like the race management company that was paying him.

I'll leave it at that.

I may have misspoken about the RD. My comment was about Jack Carress who has a history of setting up races with dangerous multi-loop bike courses to save money. He might be the organizer and not the RD.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [jroden] [ In reply to ]
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jroden wrote:
What I wonder about is why the officials don't seem to have a voice in this. To me this is such a clear example of where an official needs to say the race won't start until you reroute or put a hard barrier in the road. It makes me crazy when a promoter does dangerous shit and the officials are either sitting around or prosecuting two-bit chinstrap violations in the parking lot

I've got a friend who is an official. Their job is to enforce the competitive rules. When it comes to safety issues, their job is to observe and report to USAT after the race about any safety concerns seen, so they do have a voice. It is the race director's responsibility to plan for (pre-race) and manage (during race) all of the safety and layout issues, since they are the ones taking on the liability when they sanction. USAT takes feedback from officials that are there, along with anything sent in by us the athletes, as part of their review for future sanction requests.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [GFitSoCal] [ In reply to ]
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GFitSoCal wrote:
I was part of the crew that worked tirelessly yesterday to make the event happen (try 14 hours) and to read the nonsense you wrote just grinds my gears!
You had problems with the race organization? So did we! It was tough, it was hot and it was a location/course WE HAVEN'T USED BEFORE!

So while we have much work to do to make the race better for next year, I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE LIKES OF YOU

- who don't understand that you can't apply logistics from past years races to a totally new course/new location (maybe you should come work some events and see how tough it is)

- who clearly have very little bike handling skills therefore should really ask themselves if it's prudent to ride amongst 1500 other riders.

- who complain about the race being poorly organized but think it's appropriate to send the RD a very crude, poorly written, misspelled, longwinded, repetitive letter

Yeah, do us all a favor and next year, go race in Malibu and bitch to their RD about all they did wrong so we can focus on constructive criticism and improve the race.

So your point is that since you worked hard, it was a new course, and some people are not good bike handlers that no one gets a right to complain. Wow. I can see why your race sounds like it sucks.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [GFitSoCal] [ In reply to ]
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You wouldn't happen to be a coach that has his athletes wear trucker hats?
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [GFitSoCal] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's safe to say that you don't work in PR or customer service for the LA Tri (or possibly anywhere else).






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
I think it's safe to say that you don't work in PR or customer service for the LA Tri (or possibly anywhere else).

+1. Your customers will always have something to complain about - just gotta maintain composure, otherwise you come off just as petty (and lose more customers).
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [GFitSoCal] [ In reply to ]
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GFitSoCal wrote:
I was part of the crew that worked tirelessly yesterday to make the event happen (try 14 hours) and to read the nonsense you wrote just grinds my gears!
You had problems with the race organization? So did we! It was tough, it was hot and it was a location/course WE HAVEN'T USED BEFORE!
So while we have much work to do to make the race better for next year, I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE LIKES OF YOU (some of this may not apply to you but since you felt the need to unload on the organization, now it's my turn):
- who complain about the bike course not being "40k" when it is clearly advertised on the website as being 22.5mi (which is not 40k!)
- who don't understand that you can't apply logistics from past years races to a totally new course/new location (maybe you should come work some events and see how tough it is)
- who feel they have to include how they are "front of the pack", why would the RD or anyone else for this matter care!
- who clearly don't read the course info, USAT rules and other instructions: how many times do you think I was asked how many loops the Sprint course was or the Olympic course? Or better asked by athletes what loop they were on (really?). This BS takes my attention away from my job which is to focus on the course and anticipate problems.
- who don't attend MANDATORY course talk at packet pick up and therefore are ill prepared for the race.
- who don't listen to crew/volunteers instructions on the course or in transition because they think it does not apply to them or are wearing earbuds (refer to my earlier comment about USAT rules).
- who clearly have very little bike handling skills therefore should really ask themselves if it's prudent to ride amongst 1500 other riders.
- who say they leave near the location but complain they couldn't prepare properly in race conditions so clearly did not look at the course maps posted for weeks on the website (and probably emailed too!)
- who obviously don't understand that a race won't start until Law Enforcement and Life Guards give us the green light, which sometimes causes delay
- who think that because they paid an entry fee it's ok to litter everywhere and let volunteers and crew clean up after themselves
- who complain about the race being poorly organized but think it's appropriate to send the RD a very crude, poorly written, misspelled, longwinded, repetitive letter

Yeah, do us all a favor and next year, go race in Malibu and bitch to their RD about all they did wrong so we can focus on constructive criticism and improve the race.

I doubt that this is an LA Tri organization - approved response. That said, if the race can't acknowledge ANY criticism it's not an organization I'd be willing to do business with. No race is perfect and there is always room for improvement. While the OP did have some seemingly petty complaints there were some serious ones as well, but they all were equally dismissed
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [surftrunks] [ In reply to ]
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While I wasn't there, I'll also add that staging a triathlon at the beach in L.A. isn't quite the same as staging a triathlon in a remote state park or much lower-population area, so you do have to take that into consideration as well if comparing race setups. The LA marathon struggled for decades with neighborhoods blocking any course allowing a run to the ocean in Santa Monica, which is pretty much all the LA marathon should be about.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Both races' organizers appear to be unwilling to listen to the criticism.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
klehner wrote:
surftrunks wrote:

3. I actually have no issue with that swim stream start. I’m a front of the pack swimmer so I like starting near the front and not having to dodge slower swimmers.

4. Ok, this is another big issue I had. The Olympic course was supposed to start 35 min before the sprint. I finished the swim in about 25 min


<rolleyes>


Looking at the results, 25 minutes would have been a fast time for this course - top 15 to 20 overall. I wasn't there, but it would surprise me if the swim also included a significant run in sand after exiting the water and before entering T1.

But if this is truly trucker hat, then there's a big BS to call on that 25 minute time, as his swim was 37.08.

Crap I overlooked that. Couldn't read the post. 21 people went under 26 min (including relays)
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [Peanut] [ In reply to ]
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Peanut wrote:
jroden wrote:

What I wonder about is why the officials don't seem to have a voice in this. To me this is such a clear example of where an official needs to say the race won't start until you reroute or put a hard barrier in the road. It makes me crazy when a promoter does dangerous shit and the officials are either sitting around or prosecuting two-bit chinstrap violations in the parking lot


I've got a friend who is an official. Their job is to enforce the competitive rules. When it comes to safety issues, their job is to observe and report to USAT after the race about any safety concerns seen, so they do have a voice. It is the race director's responsibility to plan for (pre-race) and manage (during race) all of the safety and layout issues, since they are the ones taking on the liability when they sanction. USAT takes feedback from officials that are there, along with anything sent in by us the athletes, as part of their review for future sanction requests.

That's interesting. A cycling official can stop a race if there are safety issues (trains, riders crossing yellow line, etc.) or simply not allow a race to start. They can also dictate changes to a course like removing barriers if a cyclocross course is too muddy.

In the end, the officials are there to protect riders from promoters who cut corners with rule violations. Does it work? Sometimes yes, often no.

I'm sort of stunned that a promoter could be allowed to start an event with clear safety issues and the officials have no recourse except filling out a form after the families of the deceased have been notified. Given the entry fees for these events, there should be a third party with the power to enforce safety rules all the way up to canceling a race.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [cjbruin] [ In reply to ]
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cjbruin wrote:
justarunner wrote:
I will withhold judgement from the RD, the race, and the race management company and just say what I know.

1) I met the RD recently at one of his other races, he is very talented and a great guy. He puts on superb events.

2) The RD for this race is contracted out by the race management company.

3) The race management company has a reputation.

4) The RD does not like the race management company that was paying him.

I'll leave it at that.


I may have misspoken about the RD. My comment was about Jack Carress who has a history of setting up races with dangerous multi-loop bike courses to save money. He might be the organizer and not the RD.

Nailed it.

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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [surftrunks] [ In reply to ]
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I signed up for this race knowing that it was not going to be perfect due to having to plan and permit a whole new course. However, I did think that it was more dangerous than it should have been. The u-turn to start the next loop was not thought out well and I'm sure there were lots of crashes there. Each downhill was followed by a sharp right turn (one with water on the street which others have mentioned) and I do know that at least one person crashed at the turn and was taken away on a stretcher because he turned in front of my friend while still going pretty fast, causing the crash. I'm also not sure why bike in/out and run out were at the same place. Plus, if you were doing the oly, you had to run through transition five times.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [surftrunks] [ In reply to ]
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I did this race as well.
I don't feel there was a need for a long rant like this. Everyone did the same course, went through the same mayhem. That was part of the race. If knowing the course was(cant count to 5 because the road is dangerous? haha) part of the race, then so be it. Oh, and they did mention the bike wasn't 40k on the maps.

Any real problems that arose were mentioned in this article and I'm sure the RD and Event committee witnessed, realized, and noted it the day of the race.
(I'm pretty sure the 200 porto potties at Wildflower have longer lines than this race)

The 2 things that I would write about was the danger on the bike course...yes it was dangerous. Not with the inexperienced riders, but with these morons who think they HAVE to pass people WHILE doing that turn in the video as fast as they can. I didn't pass a single person near any of those turns(3rd Oly overall ty). Most people just slowed down and took the turn together.

The other thing is having each run loop(6 of them) going through transition(except the final loop). That was tough only because it stopped bikers from entering transition, which didn't make it fair.

Oh, and transition in and out on same side? Didn't matter too much because the transition was pretty small(cut in half).
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I’m glad I’m not the only one who had issues with this race. I hope attempts will be made next year to address some of the issues that were brought up.

I am sorry about the original post, I know it was long winded and convoluted. I know I brought up many issues with the race, some were major problems that could have caused serious injury, and some were minor details that may be considered petty.

In my opinion, there is no excuse for putting together a sloppy or mediocre race. I have participated in plenty of races that get things right, even down to the minor details and finishing touches, those are the races that a well-informed triathlete will go back to year after year. If some races can do it, shouldn't we hold all races to these high standards? Several people commented that these problems are present in many races and just except it as a fact. If that attitude is taken no improvements will be made. We are the “consumers” of these races, each of us puts in a lot of training time and money into every race and don’t we expect a quality race? No one would purchase a bike that has many “little” things wrong with it when a competitor’s bike has everything perfect. We all expect the best education for our children and the best health care for our loved ones. Why shouldn't we expect the best race experience possible and voice our opinions when a race falls short of its competitors.

To “GFitSoCal”, the poster that was working the event and listed many inappropriate comments about the racers (who are your customers) and my opening post. I understand you worked hard during the event and I do not want to discount that. I understand you were frustrated and had a hard time during the event. A big part of that probably came down to the poor design of the course and poor communication by your team. I’m glad you removed your post because your comments reflected extremely poorly on the LA Triathlon and the management company. If your post had gotten out, that would have been a PR nightmare.

To all those people who replied thinking I have something to do with trucker hats or that my coach dumped me. I’m sorry, but you guys are mistaking me for the someone else. I don’t even know how to address those comments.

This will be my last post on the subject, I think it has had all the attention that it needs.
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [surftrunks] [ In reply to ]
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Just thought I'd post the follow up thank you letter sent by the President of Pacific Sports since it was mentioned there wasn't one

Post-race Message from the Race Director

The 2014 Herbalife Triathlon exceeded all of our expectations, particularly given the brand new international style course. Congratulations to everyone who completed the triathlon or 5K. The City of Torrance and its residents deserve special credit. Former Mayor Scotto (who we worked with early in the year) and recently-elected Mayor Furey, along with the city council, police, fire, lifeguards and all of the departments involved were dedicated to making this come together in a short time frame after we first met this past spring.

I also want to compliment and say thank you to our competitors. We were happy with what we accomplished related to the course, but know that with all first endeavors, there were bumps in the road. Thank you for your patience and for providing valuable feedback that we can consider when we talk about next year.

Congratulations to pro Chris Foster for winning the Herbalife Challenge. The course proved worthy of a pro field and now, with some history, we have a better idea of what the time difference could be for the pro equalizer in the future.

Thanks to all of our sponsors - all of them came with us as we moved to our beautiful new venue at Torrance Beach. Thanks most of all to Herbalife and the commitment we have seen from their distributors and management. What a tremendous energy and happiness they bring on race day. The finish line and chute with the Herbalife green carpet was exactly what we envisioned.

We look forward to modifying and improving elements using what we learned this year. We had a learning curve with the new location, new course design and all that goes along with producing a triathlon. We appreciate the input from those who participated, please do not hesitate to contact us with your suggestions and comments.

We want to see you again next year at the Herbalife Triathlon and hopefully at our upcoming triathlons this fall. As a special thank you, we are offering a 15% discount on this weekend's Newport Beach Triathlon for those of you who want a Sprint, Super Sprint or Youth race.

Jack Caress
President, Pacific Sports
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Re: Problems with the LA Tri today? I wrote this letter to the race directors [tridad77] [ In reply to ]
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>4. Volunteers didn't know left from right or where to go.


I disagree with most of the criticism of volunteers.

Volunteers should do one simple thing, and not have to know or do anything other than that one simple thing.

For a large race you can have hundreds of volunteers, many of them with no knowledge of triathlon, e.g. a church group that shows up on race day.

Typically they'll get a 2-3 page job description tailored to their specific job. For example, for a course marshall it'll show the direction of traffic for their specific part of the course. It'll tell them how to politely and properly interact with athletes and cars. And it'll give them guidance on how to handle emergency situations. That's it.

That course marshall doesn't have to know where the swim exit is, the layout of the expo, the difference between Olympic/Sprint, or anything else. Otherwise they'd need a 50-page job description, and they'd suck at everything.

Now if a course marshall didn't know left from right for their specific turn, that'd be a problem. Or if the swim exit volunteer didn't know where the swim exit was. But it's not clear from any of the criticism in this thread if that's the case.

I'm speaking as a former RD here.
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