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endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers
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I've always sweated more heavily than many of my peers during even fairly moderate athletic activity, and on a humid, even moderate-temperature day I'll finish a long run looking like I fell into a pool. In non-athletic contexts, I also sweat more than some seem to, but not to excess, i.e. it's not socially awkward and I doubt people I encounter non-athletically think of me as a noticeably heavy sweater.

I'm fairly lean, and it wasn't much different in the past when I was extremely lean, so I don't think it has anything to do with body fat. It also doesn't seem to have much to do with fitness. I'm certain there's a strong hereditary component, my dad has always been a heavy sweater, for example I remember him carrying a sweat cloth during hikes together when I was younger, and up through the present day.

It's my impression heavy sweating is inefficient. My impression is that an optimal sweat rate results in rapid evaporation of sweat to cool the body, and sweating in excess of that cools only very inefficiently and at the cost of water and electrolyte loss.

During workouts and races, I inevitably become somewhat dehydrated, because I can't absorb enough water to match my perspiration rate. If I do drink closer to maintenance levels, then I just have to pee. I've experimented with salt tabs, on top of the electrolytes in various caloric and non-caloric sports drinks. I'm not sure how to think about appropriate salt dosing, it does seem to help a bit in retaining fluids, but only marginally.

I'm sure there are others on here with similar issues, so I'm curious if others have strategies they've found helpful.
Last edited by: niccolo: Sep 9, 17 22:13
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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I am definitely in your camp.

First, what is your sweat rate? Do you track it regularly?
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Jayjuno] [ In reply to ]
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Jayjuno wrote:
I am definitely in your camp.

First, what is your sweat rate? Do you track it regularly?

I have not attempted to quantify my sweat rate. I agree it would probably make sense. Having said that, I'm not sure what I would do with the information, especially since it seems clear I am unable to consume liquids at a replenishment rate.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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The ultimate goal is not to replenish at the exact rate, it simply gives you insights into how much at a minimum you need. It is also the only way to track what might be working to maintain your fluid losses to a more normal rate.

What happens when you are dehydrated? Bonking? Loss of energy, loss of muscle control, cramping, etc?

I have a very high sweat rate too and it is a process that takes time to dial in to the right balance. If I over hydrate I suffer from side stitches during the run. My uncontrolled sweat rate is over 2 liters per hour. When I get the balance of water, electrolytes, and salt pills right, I will have a rate below 1.5 liters per hour.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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I found having a bottle with the skratch lab hyperhydration mix before training to be a massive help to me. Sometimes I would take one the night before a big training day, and then one the morning of to ensure I started as salty and hydrated as possible. doing this, I was finally able to finish long training rides while living in Austin in the summer. So that's the only tip I have, but it really did work well for me.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Jayjuno] [ In reply to ]
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Jayjuno wrote:
The ultimate goal is not to replenish at the exact rate, it simply gives you insights into how much at a minimum you need.

I agree with the first part, but not so much the second. For a heavy sweater the sweat-loss rate is very likely going to exceed the maximum rate at which the body can absorb fluid. Very roughly, heavy sweaters can exceed 2-4 liters per hour loss, but the body typically absorbs a maximum of around 1 liter per hour. And that's in ideal circumstances. There are various sources for this info. Here's one.

So for heavy sweaters in long events (e.g. 140.6) in hot weather, it becomes a game of damage control. You're going to dehydrate, and it's going to affect performance. The key is doing so gracefully. Which involves a lot of factors.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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niccolo wrote:
I've always sweated more heavily than many of my peers during even fairly moderate athletic activity, and on a humid, even moderate-temperature day I'll finish a long run looking like I fell into a pool. In non-athletic contexts, I also sweat more than some seem to, but not to excess, i.e. it's not socially awkward and I doubt people I encounter non-athletically think of me as a noticeably heavy sweater.

I'm fairly lean, and it wasn't much different in the past when I was extremely lean, so I don't think it has anything to do with body fat. It also doesn't seem to have much to do with fitness. I'm certain there's a strong hereditary component, my dad has always been a heavy sweater, for example I remember him carrying a sweat cloth during hikes together when I was younger, and up through the present day.

It's my impression heavy sweating is inefficient. My impression is that an optimal sweat rate results in rapid evaporation of sweat to cool the body, and sweating in excess of that cools only very inefficiently and at the cost of water and electrolyte loss.

During workouts and races, I inevitably become somewhat dehydrated, because I can't absorb enough water to match my perspiration rate. If I do drink closer to maintenance levels, then I just have to pee. I've experimented with salt tabs, on top of the electrolytes in various caloric and non-caloric sports drinks. I'm not sure how to think about appropriate salt dosing, it does seem to help a bit in retaining fluids, but only marginally.

I'm sure there are others on here with similar issues, so I'm curious if others have strategies they've found helpful.

I'm in the same boat. I sweat more than 40 oz per hour, and (to the best I know) the human body only absorbs about 32-35 oz per hour, which means I'm net negative at least 8 oz per hour, over a 5 Hour Half Ironman effort I'm going 40 oz in the hole.

I've been experimenting with salt tabs, infinit, Etc to do as best I can, but it does present problems.

Things that I have found help: don't drink alcoho, wear clothes that maximize cooling, not just wicking, and get very very very well hydrated before races
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Jayjuno] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate folks weighing in!

I actually haven't experienced really severe effects of dehydration, perhaps somewhat surprisingly. I think it contributes to gut/fueling challenges, but I have a sensitive gut anyway, so hard to say how much responsibility it deserves. Cramping has been a relatively minor, sporadic issue for me despite, on rare occasions, experiencing some fairly epic dehydration (Coke-colored urine!). I've almost certainly experienced less severe effects of dehydration, e.g. loss of energy, though it's hard to assess how much responsibility dehydration deserves there, too.

I think for now, my thoughts are 1) I could probably be consuming a lot more salt before and during activity (and after to help rehydrate?), though other than trial and error, I have no idea how to think about appropriate dosing; 2) It may be worth increasing liquid consumption marginally before and during activity even at the cost of having to pee, i.e. a thirty-second pitstop may be outweighed by the performance benefits of being somewhat more hydrated; 3) although I'm not a big fan of the aesthetics, a running singlet that maximizes airflow and evaporation, and running shirtless when feasible (non-racing), probably make sense.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Jayjuno] [ In reply to ]
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Jayjuno wrote:
The ultimate goal is not to replenish at the exact rate, it simply gives you insights into how much at a minimum you need. It is also the only way to track what might be working to maintain your fluid losses to a more normal rate.

What happens when you are dehydrated? Bonking? Loss of energy, loss of muscle control, cramping, etc?

I have a very high sweat rate too and it is a process that takes time to dial in to the right balance. If I over hydrate I suffer from side stitches during the run. My uncontrolled sweat rate is over 2 liters per hour. When I get the balance of water, electrolytes, and salt pills right, I will have a rate below 1.5 liters per hour.

You're saying that if you drink too much (or too little?) and if you don't consume enough electrolytes/salt, your perception is that you actually sweat more? I would have thought that for a given level of intensity and given conditions the sweat rate would be pretty constant, barring serious dehydration, at which point the sweat rate would fall, but I have to imagine performance would also drop dramatically at that point.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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Niccolo, get tested sweat rate test, so you know what target to aim for. I have found that my sweat rate will vary based on humidity levels. Having said that I will push more water in a humid race with the same amount of electrolytes per hour vs an arid race.
Heat management is huge!
I'd also recommend steadily having various forms of electrolytes, Tailwind Nutrition and Base salt are my favorite sources.
Happy Training!
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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Registering for Ironman Norway is my 2018 strategy.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Or Wales!

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [len] [ In reply to ]
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Trust me, it's on the bucket list.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Registering for Ironman Norway is my 2018 strategy.

I like where your head's at. This is season planning Master Class 9000.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Registering for Ironman Norway is my 2018 strategy.

love it.. or alaskaman extreme! Do the swim with no wetsuit 😉

While I do write that a little bit jokingly, I've noticed that when I'm climbing mountains with my friends, they will be all bundled up and I will be wearing a t-shirt, or no shirt, and shorts so that I don't overheat. Different physiology. I've got a furnace, they've got an ember.

It is fairly interesting when you start thinking about it. How different can humans be.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
Registering for Ironman Norway is my 2018 strategy.


love it.. or alaskaman extreme! Do the swim with no wetsuit 😉

While I do write that a little bit jokingly, I've noticed that when I'm climbing mountains with my friends, they will be all bundled up and I will be wearing a t-shirt, or no shirt, and shorts so that I don't overheat. Different physiology. I've got a furnace, they've got an ember.

It is fairly interesting when you start thinking about it. How different can humans be.

I read several reports from Alaskaman and the water sounds pretty cold. Norway should be a balmy 60-62F. The funny thing is that while I hate living in cold climates, I do very well racing in the cold weather. I've done a few races were folks have gotten hypothermia and I thought it was great. When my nuclear furnace trips on I don't need to be in layers even when other folks are wearing jackets and the like. But I was born in the north of Maine, lived in garden spots like Iceland, North Dakota, Wisconsin, etc. I've been in Tampa for 15 years and still haven't acclimated. Yeah, people can be amazingly different.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Jayjuno] [ In reply to ]
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Jayjuno wrote:
I am definitely in your camp.

First, what is your sweat rate? Do you track it regularly?

Any thread on being a "heavy sweater" needs to include sweat rate to temperature and humidity

This is very easy to compute - weigh naked before activity - weigh naked after - add consumed liquid (dont pee but that usually means you cant test longer than 2 hours).

For instance - I have computed a 56 ounce per hour weight loss in 72 degree indoor weather @ 50% humidity. I am pretty much ruled out of a hot IM. In fact if the race was going over 80 I'd probably bow out. Not worth hobbling the marathon with severe dehydration cramps.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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I'm again about in the same camp... sweat in excess of 40oz. in hot/humid conditions. Before I figured out my sweat rate, I just went with a bottle/hour, not very scientific.

Had a lot of bad runs that I couldn't make heads or tails of, wasn't over biking, legs were a mess, HR pegging at paces that didn't make sense. Recently after hiring a coach and discovering this whole sweat rate thing, I started using E-Fuel and things are better now, I mix it to its optimal isotonic level and things have improved a lot. I'm about a two 24oz bottle an hour guy.

Interesting about the absorption limits of the body, you learn something new everyday. I never figured it was infinite, but it does look like for some of us, we just can't keep up with sweating, especially in longer/hot events.
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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I also have a heavy sweat rate, so I can relate to your struggles. I also train and race long, primarily through the summer.

I stumbled across this just through trial-and-error, but on my long days & races, I will keep a thermos of chicken noodle soup (sometimes broth and sometimes noodles and sometime bullion). It packs a punch of fluids + sodium, which is my biggest problem when sweating.

The difference in how I feel since making this nutritional change is astronomical.

Thanks & God bless!
Ray
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [toj] [ In reply to ]
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That soup is the bomb. Saved my bacon at Ironman Muskoka

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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following...
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [Camber13] [ In reply to ]
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Completed my first marathon yesterday, thankfully cool and mostly cloudy, so that kept insane perspiration in check.

I ended up sipping Skratch hyper hydration pre-race and first six or so miles, has elevated salt in it, and then taking SaltStick capsules (salt plus other electrolytes) about every 45 minutes, plus a non-calorie electrolyte drink available on course plus gels. My perception in training, and racing, was that the SaltStick capsules enabled me to retain a little more water. That said, being pretty well hydrated, I did have to make a 45-second porta potty pee break at 10 miles, but I suspect I was faster as a function of being better hydrated, so probably a wash. I did have some pretty nasty quad cramping starting about mile 10, and progressively getting worse, which is not something I experienced in training, I actually don't have a good explanation for why that happened (I was hydrated, electrolyted, it wasn't hot, and my intensity was consistent with things I managed fine in training). Despite the cramping, I did well relative to my goals, quite happy with my performance.

My rockstar girlfriend booked me a cryo plus Normatec session for the afternoon after the race yesterday, that seemed very helpful. But I'm definitely having trouble walking today, makes me wonder how bad it would be without those recovery aids.
Last edited by: niccolo: Oct 9, 17 12:22
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Re: endurance racing strategies for heavy perspirers [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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Have you had a sweat test to analyze not only your sweat rate, but also the amount of electrolytes you are losing? This is the best way to come up with an optimal hydration strategy. Check out our website or send a direct message if you are interested in learning more about the test.

Team Four3
http://www.teamfour3.com
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