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current Zwift poll
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I find it notable that the distribution is centering on 3 W/kg for the proposed 40 min lead-up to the 20 min hard effort. Why? Because it is consistent with my previous estimate that the average individual drawn into endurance sports would likely have an FTP of ~4 (3.9) W/kg. That would mean that people would choose (or think they would choose) to ride at an IF of 0.75, or at "endurance" level, before giving it full-stick. Makes sense to me...
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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What do you think the distribution curve looks like for riders drawn into endurance sports?

I have always assumed it would be a bi-modal distribution due to the interplay of natural talent and training effort. My sense is that Zwift also caters for a bi-modal distribution when you look at the average power brackets for their ride classifications. It would be very interesting to analyze the Zwift database of rider locations, age, sex, weight and FTP to get geographic cycling profiles. I bet you could pick out hot spots of cheating as well as other societal trends in addition to the sports dynamics.
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up
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Re: current Zwift poll [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up

I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???


I'd bet for most people 3 w/kg is probably 80-100% of their FTP.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Feb 24, 18 9:00
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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...waiting for the women's poll... I'd be a Cat 2 or 3 if I could pull those numbers off. Alas, I am not.

Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/
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Re: current Zwift poll [SLOgoing] [ In reply to ]
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Right!?! I actually just spent a half an hour analyzing data thinking there is no way I suck so bad...

All in all though it was productive time as I now have a better understanding of the numbers and what they mean. I love learning :)
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I went for 2.5 W/Kg off a somewhat dubious 4W/Kg FTP, simply because I wouldn't fancy 20 minutes hard without relatively fresh legs.
ODZ coffee rides have a similar sort of format with about 50 minutes at 2.5 and then 10 minutes flat out.
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Re: current Zwift poll [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???


I'd bet for most people 3 w/kg is probably 80-100% of their FTP.

OK but what speed would that translate to??? Or, to ask the reverse question, if a person can do say 23 mph for a 25 mi TT, what would his/her "FTP" be???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???

This link:
http://bikecalculator.com/index.html

is a simplified method of attempting to answer your question that has many variables involved.

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Re: current Zwift poll [Billyk24] [ In reply to ]
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Billyk24 wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???


This link:
http://bikecalculator.com/index.html

is a simplified method of attempting to answer your question that has many variables involved.

Thanks for the link.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: current Zwift poll [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Eh, the description is too ambiguous to really expect a good answer. What does 'go for it' mean? Is that the hardest 20 minutes you can do like ~105% ftp? Or merely a hard 20 minute interval like high sweet spot ~95% ftp? The 40 minutes I would like to do in front of those two efforts would be very different. If you are trying to set up two different groups for a ride a better question would probably be what is your FTP in w/kg.
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???



Depends on what you mean by average aero-ness but you can work out speed from power (or the other way round) using these calculators I put together.


http://www.aerocoach.com.au/speed-from-power/

http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au
Last edited by: AlexS: Feb 24, 18 11:12
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I voted 2.5 because if I were to do this ride, I would do the whole 70 minutes at a recovery pace and keep my hard work for specific workouts. Not that this wouldn't be a good workout, but my coach schedules specific workouts that I am not really interested in replacing with a hard zwift group effort.

The 3.9 w/kg prediction is interesting. My experience with endurance sports is triathlon, where I doubt many people in the average AG field are at 3.9 w/kg. In my experience, a 3.9 w/kg will put you in the top 50 bike splits at an ironman. Now with that said, your prediction is NOT for ironman athletes, but athletes drawn to endurance sports. I don't think 3.9 is anything special for cyclists. I am also always skeptical of slowtwitch polls as a representation of the broader population.
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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3.0 watts/kilo is around 23 mph on flat ground, but depends on them being nice and aero.

----------------------------------------------------------
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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: current Zwift poll [jockette21] [ In reply to ]
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My motivational chart that is taped next to my Zwift monitor...





Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/
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Re: current Zwift poll [SLOgoing] [ In reply to ]
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I don't thknk Andrew will approve ;)
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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3 w/kg will get me a 2:25 HIM bike split
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Re: current Zwift poll [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I find it funny that people think they can ride 3w/kg in the group portion of the ride and then be able to pick it up


I've never trained with power so I am curious as to what speed 3 w/kg would translate to, on a flat course with no wind and assuming average "aero-ness". Are we talking 20 mph or 22 or???

I typically average 3.0-3.2 on easier, steady rides. That's typically between 19.5-20.5 mph with about 500 ft elevation every 10 miles or so.
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Your estimate would be about right for me if I was at the weight I probably should be for good endurance performance (70-73kg) but instead I'm typically about 79-82kg so more like 3.4-3.6W/kg.
I voted 2.75W/kg. 20mins is quite a long race segment after a fairly stiff 40min effort. I suspect I won't be upping my pace much at the end.
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Re: current Zwift poll [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I am curious why there is poll to figure out how to create a ride that already exists in multiple formats. TeamODZ has the Coffee Ride as stated earlier, and other groups have similar versions. Maybe Slowtwitch and Zwift could do something original.

This is my biggest complaint about Zwift. There seeems to be a need to pay for or at least expend resources to provide content/events that the community is already providing for free. Worst strategy ever!

https://www.endurancelab.fit
https://www.teamodz.com
https://discuss.endurancelab.fit
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Re: current Zwift poll [cobra_kai] [ In reply to ]
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cobra_kai wrote:
Eh, the description is too ambiguous to really expect a good answer. What does 'go for it' mean? Is that the hardest 20 minutes you can do like ~105% ftp? Or merely a hard 20 minute interval like high sweet spot ~95% ftp? The 40 minutes I would like to do in front of those two efforts would be very different. If you are trying to set up two different groups for a ride a better question would probably be what is your FTP in w/kg.

here is the ride description. you can do whatever you want in that final 20 minutes. i expect to ride pretty much the same for the last 20 as for the first 40. but i suspect you younger pups may want to stretch your legs.

i also think it's possible some folks who start with the more ambitious group may find that your gaze exceeded your grasp, and as opposed to most other rides you'll have a group to which you can drift back, to provide you company for the duration.

the two groups will be riding at roughly 2.75w/kg, and 2.00 w/kg. this may go a little above those numbers on the climbs, but we'll soft pedal at the top. if you don't have a good sense for what the effort will feel like, just start pedaling. if 2.75 seems like it might work, give it a try. if you get 20min or 30min in and it turns harsh, we 2w/kgers will sweep you up and carry you to the finish.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: current Zwift poll [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I have a feeling a 0.75W/kg gap might be a bit big for those dropping off the main group half way through to be gathered up again. They might just end up riding between the groups for the remainder of the ride. Or perhaps 2W/kg will turn out to be a smidge too slow and it might end up floating up a little without losing anyone. Give it a shot and see how it goes! It can always be tweaked later.
I think the 2.75W/kg group should work well for me, so I can't complain!
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Re: current Zwift poll [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if the forum is asking "what w/kg will the ride claim" or "what will we be doing?"

As a 70kg male, I usually assume anything listed at 2.5w/kg (e.g. the SZR C Joyride) will have a long sustained effort at ~3.2w/kg to stay near the front of the main group.

Any B-ride claiming 3w/kg (e.g. WBR 3w/kg ride) will have 10+min periods at close to 4 w/kg.

Not a complaint at all, but there are definitely factors that I apply when deciding which rides to do. If I see a ride proposing 3 w/kg in mobile link, I won't do it unless I'm feeling like riding well above that.
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Re: current Zwift poll [ferretnt] [ In reply to ]
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I'm confused, how do people do this? If it's a Zwift workout, people can "hang" without having the same w/kg target. You just hit your own workout goals.

If it's a group ride, that's different. If you're on the flats and sitting in, it's going to take nothing. Sure, you'll go over 3.0 up a roller. Then back to nose breathing till your turn.

Our local johnson (or sheila) measuring ride the "intro" pace for where we can paceline is probably about a 3.0 on average. If the group is big enough, you'll only average out to a low 2.x because you won't get much of a turn. Just be able to keep up in the line with a normal A group. Bets are off after we hit the steeper short hills (1min to 3min). The group grenades there, but we regroup after a hill as it's more fun to do the hills together than breakaway. It's about the fun.

I wish I had a smarter trainer and Zwift. That 15min would be interesting. See what ratio of steam engines to firecracker rider strengths comes out.
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