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can someone define "crappy tires"?
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I was just reading the recent thread re crappy tires(link below) but I couldnt get a feel for exactly what a crappy tire is...Im in the mkt for new clinchers and the price points obviously are all over the place and its hard to get good comparisons for different brands or why one is more pricey.

Performance bike always has sales on tires that are pretty staggering for eg, this hutchinson fusion 3, is maked down 50% from $75....Is this a bargain or a crappy tire?http://www.performancebike.com/...96_-1_400904__400904 Seems like a steal but I have never used the brand....

I need a few spares for training but def dont want some heavy rubber. Im looking for a 25mm, 220gm or so, less than $50...preferably pink(jk). Ride only about 50-60 miles week, but will prob start ramping it up.



crappy tire and speed link: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ppy%20tires;#5539060
Last edited by: Johnnyfever: May 22, 15 10:13
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Johnnyfever wrote:
I was just reading the recent thread re crappy tires(link below) but I couldnt get a feel for exactly what a crappy tire is...Im in the mkt for new clinchers and the price points obviously are all over the place and its hard to get good comparisons for different brands or why one is more pricey.

Performance bike always has sales on tires that are pretty staggering for eg, this hutchinson fusion 3, is maked down 50% from $75....Is this a bargain or a crappy tire?http://www.performancebike.com/...96_-1_400904__400904 Seems like a steal but I have never used the brand....

I need a few spares for training but def dont want some heavy rubber. Im looking for a 25mm, 220gm or so, less than $50...preferably pink(jk). Ride only about 50-60 miles week, but will prob start ramping it up.



crappy tire and speed link:http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ppy%20tires;#5539060[/url]


Hutchinson Fusion 3 are by no means "crappy" tires. They are middle of the road to better than average every day tires. Decent rolling resistance, decent flat protection, decent wear life, and decent ride quality. Not the best of any of these, but suitable in all areas. I used the 1 and 2 for years on my road bike and never had a problem.

Would I race on them? If that was all I had yes. I wouldn't by them as race tires, however, there are much better choices.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Last edited by: AutomaticJack: May 22, 15 11:59
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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I'd take Michelin pro 3, be warned the 25s run a little big. But they are just a good, well balanced tire with good protection. Decent roller, but not fabulous.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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That Pro3 is light also. weighing in at 200gm
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Anything from Tufo
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Just look for GP4000s on sale. The usual good deal price is 39$. They wear well, have good flat resistance, low Crr and some of the best aero properties.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
Just look for GP4000s on sale. The usual good deal price is 39$. They wear well, have good flat resistance, low Crr and some of the best aero properties.

^^^^^This.


There are two types of crappy tires. Those that are just plain crappy (TUFO), and those that aren't suited to your use (ex. Conti Gatorskins are highly puncture resistant and durable, but roll slow as hell.....great for commuting, lousy for racing).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
Just look for GP4000s on sale. The usual good deal price is 39$. They wear well, have good flat resistance, low Crr and some of the best aero properties.


^^^^^This.


There are two types of crappy tires. Those that are just plain crappy (TUFO), and those that aren't suited to your use (ex. Conti Gatorskins are highly puncture resistant and durable, but roll slow as hell.....great for commuting, lousy for racing).

I'm not even sure that Gatorskins offer that much incremental protection, in that I think there's not much of a range of road debris that would penetrate a "racing tire" and not the Gatorskins. I had so many flats with multiple Gatorskins that I ultimately just gave up on commuting them and just went with race tires.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Your first mistake is worrying about the weight of the tires. Tire weight, by itself, doesn't even come into play when selecting a "good" tire. It just is NOT a main driver of tire performance in and of itself.

Anyway, here are my general rules for suspecting if a tire is "crappy":
1. The word "gator", "armadillo", "hard case", or "Tufo" occurs in the name
2. The description boasts something on the order of "bead to bead flat protection".
3. With rare exceptions, it's tubeless.

Beyond that, you need to roller test ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Look for high tpi and slick center the more of tpi it has the more supple it is. Don't worry about weight a huge deal there are some decently bulky tires with good rr like conti force but just check out rolling resistance tables as many as possible they've been posted here before and there's less recent ones easy on google
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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First off I wouldn't put anything "crappy" on my bike. There are tires that are good value for money but it doesn't make them crappy.

What matters is getting the best tire for your money that is fit for purpose. If you're racing that means the fastest tire (rolling resistance and aero) that you can afford, so long as its not so fragile that it punctures or cuts up on the first ride. If you're commuting on bad roads that means something with plenty of puncture resistance. If you're training it probably means somewhere in the middle.

Personally I put puncture protection as my highest priority for both training and commuting, followed by comfort and handling as a joint second, with speed in last place. So I run 25 or 28mm Schwalbe Marathons on my bikes for everything except racing. For racing they would be "crappy" but for everything else they're great and pretty good value. On race day the Conti GP4000s come out. But on the roads I ride they are way too expensive and get trashed far too fast to ride every day.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
First off I wouldn't put anything "crappy" on my bike. There are tires that are good value for money but it doesn't make them crappy.

What matters is getting the best tire for your money that is fit for purpose. If you're racing that means the fastest tire (rolling resistance and aero) that you can afford, so long as its not so fragile that it punctures or cuts up on the first ride. If you're commuting on bad roads that means something with plenty of puncture resistance. If you're training it probably means somewhere in the middle.

Personally I put puncture protection as my highest priority for both training and commuting, followed by comfort and handling as a joint second, with speed in last place. So I run 25 or 28mm Schwalbe Marathons on my bikes for everything except racing. For racing they would be "crappy" but for everything else they're great and pretty good value. On race day the Conti GP4000s come out. But on the roads I ride they are way too expensive and get trashed far too fast to ride every day.

This is spot on, IMO

To me, "crappy" mostly just means not fit for purpose.
The ideal tyre in one situation could often be seen as "crappy" when used under different conditions.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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if road debris are not an issue, in general a nicer tire will have a more supple sidewall, higher TPI and softer (i think that means lower durometer number) compound and will usually wear faster and cut easier. They will be lighter too I guess. A true crappy tire like those cheap Chinese gumwalls will ride poorly but also suffer cuts easier. A stiff, hard tire for winter training will ride and handle poorly, but you just use them for a specific purpose.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to know too. I can't find any performance reviews of the stock mavic yksion griplink/powerlinks that came with my bike, I want to find out if they are crappy!!

How much difference can tires make over a 56mile bike leg?
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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or Panaracer
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to know too. I can't find any performance reviews of the stock mavic yksion griplink/powerlinks that came with my bike, I want to find out if they are crappy!!

They suck. No joke.

If you are risk adverse and don't want to spend time thinking about just get some GP4000S and be done.

Last edited by: rruff: May 25, 15 16:39
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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or Panaracer

Are you sure? I've heard the Grand Bois extra lights (made by Panaracer) are fast, but knowing how things are in the bike business, that could just be BS. I haven't seen any test data.

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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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If you want to know crappy tyres for your purposes, you ought to get a 21mm tyre weighing 300gms with bugger all grip and no flat protection.. in blue....

I have something close.. the Maxxis Refuse in 23mm in Orange... they were free, i refused (geddit) to use them.. so shit.. the tread feels like the lense of oakleys.. ie plastic.. the are puncture proof though.. as they lie on the tyre shelf..

re tyre cost.. tyres are the single most important part of your bike.. forget saving money.. get absolute performance (which to me is confidence and grip, everything following that is secondary IMO.. ).. IF you don't use it, at least you had it, they day you need the extra performance you'll be glad you did..

Do let us know where you end up though.. and after having used them if you were happy with your choice..
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, thanks. I have a pair of GP4000s around already, I will put them on before my TT on Sunday. I guess 23 on the front and 25 on the back.

It's a shame that it is so difficult to find out that certain tires suck. They seem quite expensive so I assumed they would be decent.
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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I'm doing the same for my race next weekend. I ordered a pair of GP 4000s ii...figured I might as well have decent tires for racing.


Chris Harris
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Re: can someone define "crappy tires"? [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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It's a shame that it is so difficult to find out that certain tires suck. They seem quite expensive so I assumed they would be decent.

Just stick with good ones for racing. Stock up at UK shops. The best tires are typically ~$40/ea, and free shipping.

Continental's entire line with Black Chili tread and 110tpi (330) casing are good. Supersonics have the lowest Crr and least puncture resistance (no vectran belt) and longevity (thin tread), all the rest have a vectran belt, but the GP TT, Attack and Force have thin tread and are the next in line for Crr. The GP4000 has thicker tread and has the highest rolling drag of this bunch, but the shape gives it surprisingly good aero when new.

The "open tubulars" made by Vittoria (320 tpi poly-cotton casing) have low Crr, and a very nice ride, but they cut and puncture easily. Veloflex and Challenge make tires that are similar. Specialized and Zipp have some tires that use the Vittoria casing, and Specialized at least seems to be using their own tread formula which gets good marks from what I've heard. That's the Specialized Turbo Cotton. Unfortunately it costs a lot more than the Contis and Vittorias ($80) since it isn't sold online.

That's about it.

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