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Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF
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Entered a Zwift race yesterday and it had a warm up period. It was insane. I got dropped like a bag of potatoes and then spent the next 41km catching up. Is this normal?

Also, racing in London sucks, way to many people on the course and you cant tell who you are even racing against.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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I did a different race than you yesterday and it had a warm-up lap. Same thing, racing from the start so I don't know why it is designated as a warm-up lap. If they truly want a warm-up lap they should just keep everyone together regardless of w/kg then start the race as a rolling start after the warm-up lap. Otherwise I don't see the point of the warm-up lap.

As for numbers on the road each race is different. The race I was in there was no one else on the road other than our group. Although my wife was just riding the circuit and not in the race and she would see the people in my event riding by.

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Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the even I Road was the Team Italy Specialissima Race. I have done the event twice in the C category. It is crazy.

I enjoy the WBR races in Watopia more.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
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It’s not truly a warm up lap. It’s just a side effect of the Zwift programming. Race starts from the gun and starts FAST! Be ready for 3-5 minutes of VO2 effort immediately to stay in front groups.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [gerardm] [ In reply to ]
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gerardm wrote:
It’s not truly a warm up lap. It’s just a side effect of the Zwift programming. Race starts from the gun and starts FAST! Be ready for 3-5 minutes of VO2 effort immediately to stay in front groups.

I'm glad it's not just me that has this! Zwift races are a killer, good on the rare occasions i manage to hold on and stay with the front group though. The rest of the time I just keep going aas hard as i can for an hour telling myself that I am valiantly leading the "second group".. (3 minutes back....)
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [gerardm] [ In reply to ]
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No doubt!

The second issue is also an issue, with so many people on the course I could not tell who was the lead group. LOL.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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TA3 wrote:
The second issue is also an issue, with so many people on the course I could not tell who was the lead group. LOL.

The list on the right should list only the people in your event.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I've had some races / group rides where it's only you and the group visible on the course until the finish line and then you suddenly revert to non-race kit and all the 1000's of other riders appear. Not sure which ones and how to choose the right races for this but it makes it "better" for sure.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like just another way Zwift mimics reality. The "neutral" start (when there is one) in actual mass start road races in US domestic amateur & pro races is one of the hardest parts of the race. The guys who started Zwift were very experienced, very successful amateur racers.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I have gathered that, but it would be nice to visualize them better.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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The only times I deal with 'neutral' starts where it's not a race from the get go is when they are listed/categorized as group rides. These are generally rides where everyone rides together for 3 laps, maybe doing drills, intermediate sprints but generally together. Then with 1 lap to go or at a designated start point everyone must be behind the ride leader and the ride leader will give the signal to race if you choose. Some do, others will just continue on with the group. Anyone not behind the leader at the 'neutral start' is excluded from the so called standings after the fact.
Last edited by: gerardm: Jan 12, 18 6:34
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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There are no warm ups. Just an unfortunate designation Zwift put on.

With 10 secs to go, you'd better start ramping up. I typically do about 400 watts for the first 90-120 secs to make the first group, so well over 5 w/kg.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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TA3 wrote:
No doubt!

The second issue is also an issue, with so many people on the course I could not tell who was the lead group. LOL.

You should only see people that are in the race on the course. And the list of those is in the bracket on the right. At least all the races I do are like that. Towards the end we start lapping people, usually, but still only see the people that have started the race.

Maybe different races are different, though.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, and I notice some events show your placing and some don't. I personally like to see how poorly I'm doing in relation to the group! lol
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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It was like that on a race I did in Watopia, but not the race in London.

Must be different races have different settings.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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Seeing non-racing cyclists during the race is something that has varied for me as well. And it doesn't appear to be course specific. I did the ZHR Tea race in London, about a month ago an only saw race participants. Then last week I did the WBR 3-lap hill race, so Watopia, and the course was packed with non-participants. I don't know if it's a race setting, that the race creators need to adjust, but it's definitely better when all you can see is race participants.

Also, the warmup label is a misnomer that Zwift really needs to remove.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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TA3 wrote:
It was like that on a race I did in Watopia, but not the race in London.

Must be different races have different settings.

Guess so. The race I did in London last night (KISS) only showed the race participants.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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vjohn wrote:
Sounds like just another way Zwift mimics reality. The "neutral" start (when there is one) in actual mass start road races in US domestic amateur & pro races is one of the hardest parts of the race. The guys who started Zwift were very experienced, very successful amateur racers.

I haven't seen any neutral starts in Zwift. I think we're talking about standing starts? Neutral starts aren't all that hard in racing. Standing starts (like in cyclocross or citeriums) can be very hard. The hammering off the line is done to get good positioning on courses where it can be hard to move up.

I don't think it has anything to do with Zwift developers. It's just guys hammering off the line. Which is fine.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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The 'warm up', as I understand it, is for courses where the starting gate is not on the lap. In London's case for the event I did this week, it was a ~ 4 mi ride from the start to the circuit, after which our 6 laps commenced. Warm up is a bad name, it's really riding to the course. You should expect it to be all out from the gun (like racing a crit). It's not how most or any real road races happen usually, but it's how zwift goes, and it's a game, so take it for what it is.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
vjohn wrote:
Sounds like just another way Zwift mimics reality. The "neutral" start (when there is one) in actual mass start road races in US domestic amateur & pro races is one of the hardest parts of the race. The guys who started Zwift were very experienced, very successful amateur racers.


I haven't seen any neutral starts in Zwift. I think we're talking about standing starts? Neutral starts aren't all that hard in racing. Standing starts (like in cyclocross or citeriums) can be very hard. The hammering off the line is done to get good positioning on courses where it can be hard to move up.

I don't think it has anything to do with Zwift developers. It's just guys hammering off the line. Which is fine.

IIRC, up until a few months ago, there used to be a Thursday Night Throwdown race that had a neutral start with a ride leader.

You had to be behind him at the actual start, which was about 3 miles into the race. The roll out was at 2-2.5 W/kG.

Those that were ahead of him at the 3 mile mark were DQ'd.

Team Dimond
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [owtbac86] [ In reply to ]
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owtbac86 wrote:

IIRC, up until a few months ago, there used to be a Thursday Night Throwdown race that had a neutral start with a ride leader.

You had to be behind him at the actual start, which was about 3 miles into the race. The roll out was at 2-2.5 W/kG.

Those that were ahead of him at the 3 mile mark were DQ'd.


OK, that's right, I've been on one of those too. I forgot that. I like that because often I'm jumping on Zwift just after work and don't have time for a proper warmup. And it sucks doing a 8 W/kg start without a warmup.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [owtbac86] [ In reply to ]
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owtbac86 wrote:
IIRC, up until a few months ago, there used to be a Thursday Night Throwdown race that had a neutral start with a ride leader.

You had to be behind him at the actual start, which was about 3 miles into the race. The roll out was at 2-2.5 W/kG.

Those that were ahead of him at the 3 mile mark were DQ'd.

Now they've got that rubber-band function working for group workouts it's probably not that hard to support actual warm up laps.

ie. Rubber band till the start time, then snap it at race start.

Could even stick a virtual car in front of it.
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Re: Zwift Race with warm up lap, WTF [TA3] [ In reply to ]
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Couple points from someone who has been riding zwift from early Beta and leads some of the rides and races being spoken about here.

- I think if you ask the Zwift team they didnt target racing in the beginning. That was an outgrowth of the community. In the early days we met at the start/finish line, rode behind a specific rider for a few KMs and then that rider gave the go signal and away the riders went. Racing is for the most part completely community driven aspect of zwift.
- Zwift eventually came out with the event module which allowed rides and races to always begin with everyone at the same point. This solved the problem with people jumping the gun.
- It created another situation with riders really pushing their watts in the starting pen to shoot out of the pen at the start of the race.
- Some rides still exist that incorporate longer warmups into the ride. The TeamODZ Coffee rides are an example. I lead the Wednesday morning one regularly and we do about 40 minutes at a set w/kg and then race for about 20 minutes. All riders must be behind the leader to count in results. generally everyone gets the parameters and it goes well. I also led the Castelli Thursday Night rides that were done similar...3 km WU or so followed by 60ish minute race.
- Some of the London courses have the WU section of roads because the laps dont start for a handful of kms. But everyone is right - many of those races start right from the gun.
- Finally, i think its up to the event is they only see riders in the event or all riders on zwift. And, I think if you are not in the event you always see all riders on zwift - including those in an event. On these last points I am a bit more uncertain.
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