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Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition
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I had a lot of oats at my last race. Ended up with stomach cramps on the run. Do not think it was only the oats but I am planning on modifying my race morning break fast. This is what I plan to eat 2,5 hours before gun goes off and will test tmrw on my long ride with a short run after:

Breakfast:
3 rice cakes with 2 tablespoons of peanutbutter (250 calories)
50 g white rice 180 calories
2 hard boiled eggs 160 cals
Half cup of oats made on water with berries and a bit of nuts and raisins 230 cals
0,5-1 liter of water

Total cals 920 cals

Ride (5h expectation):
3 power bars in small bites every 15 min from 30 min to 3,5 hrs 700 calories
4 GUs (one when I get on the bike, 3 during last 90 min of ride 400 calories
2 liter gatorade or perform 700 calories
2 liter plain water
Total 1800 calories or 366 calories per hour

Breakfast might be a bit high on calories so thinking about cutting the rice out, as it is less convenient to get a hold of rice

Thoughts?
Last edited by: andreasjs: Aug 1, 14 9:31
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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I am not a fast Ironman distance athlete by any means but I have completed 3 of them and nutrition to keep moving is critical to me. Bigger triathlete fast metabolism lots of muscle low body. You have zero protein in you bike nutrition. For me all that would do is a) make me sick b) I would feel very very very hungry from the first bite until the end of the day.
Perhaps adding some protieen would help.

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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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You're going to get everything from eat a pizza each mile to eat nothing during your race... Be prepared..

So you seem to have a little bit of a sensitive gut. Which makes me think a few things...

Way to much fat/protein before a race.. Just in the peanut butter you had more fat than I did after completing a 10 hr Ironman.. Add the nuts and the eggs... to much for the stomach to digest... (Some people thrive on this stuff, but I don't think its working for you)
Breakfast is not early enough.. especially with all the fat and protein.

I just finished IMLP.. My breakfast was completed 3:30 before the race, giving it enough time to get absorbed into my gut and start to allow things to get moving, all easily digestible carbs and a little protein (no fat on race day, until post race ice cream...)
I have a powerbar 1 hour before the race
A gel 15 minutes before the race

My Fueling for the race comes out to close to 530-550 (~120 CHO/hr) calories an hour on the bike and 350-450 (100-120 CHO/hr) on the run.. I weighed 136 on race day....

Always sports drink, never water, maybe a sip or two on the run at an aid station, but not mountable to anything.

I eat every 35 minutes, powerbars, gels, bloks... I don't count liquid in my "eating", it is simply there for me to get hydrated and electrolytes.

The biggest advice I can give you is train your gut... I fuel for 1 hour recovery rides, I have a gel at 35 minutes and drink 1.5 bottles of sports drink.. Yeah I don't need it but come race day.. I don't have any stomach problems

Hope this helps
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [gymrat] [ In reply to ]
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gymrat wrote:
I am not a fast Ironman distance athlete by any means but I have completed 3 of them and nutrition to keep moving is critical to me. Bigger triathlete fast metabolism lots of muscle low body. You have zero protein in you bike nutrition. For me all that would do is a) make me sick b) I would feel very very very hungry from the first bite until the end of the day.
Perhaps adding some protieen would help.

How does a powerbar have "zero protein"? And why do you need any protein during an IM?

If eating carbs only makes you sicke, there might be an issue with gut health, it is not "normal". For me the pre race meal looks sbout fine (too much fibre though), the problem is the variety of food on the bike ... and even more fibre.

If you have problems, test out a liquid diet: http://www.samiinkinen.com/...205/sami-liquid-diet
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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You might consider splitting up your breakfast into two parts. I've found success with a first breakfast around 4 a.m. (for me that is a gluten free bagel with peanut butter) and a second breakfast around 6 or 6:30 a.m. (gluten free bread, peanut butter, honey sandwich + Gatorade). 920 calories all at once may not be the best idea for your stomach.

Also, a "plus one" to considering a more liquid nutrition plan on the bike, or at least for part of it. My body likes Infinit and it's easy to carry and digest. Plus completely customize-able. I like to carry 6 hours worth of Infinite in 2 concentrated bottles, and have back-up items for variety (Sports Beans and Payday are my go-to) if I get sick of it.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [adal] [ In reply to ]
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It is not "Carbs" per se. It is the high concentration sugar that does me in. Again I am not superfast or strong at Ironman distance(I am fast twitch athlete naturally) and a Half is as far as I can "race" although 5:08 pr for a half probably is not racing either. (Especially on Slowtwitch ;>) )
But protein does helps slow the digestion process a bit "for me" and keeps the hunger and energy spikes and crashes to a minimum. Some people can live on Gatorade or the like all day long regardless of what they do. I cannot do it. I also cannot race on a bagel and peanut butter for breakfast either at 195lbs, I would not make it out of the swim on a minimal breakfast. Some can and do. Especially those at the pointy tip of the results end. Then again they are also a lot smaller people as well. He asked an opinion and I gave it. I would add some "real food" to the mix that has some protein in it. That is all.

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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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It could be the fructose in the power bars and gu. Many are sensitive to this.
As fa as pre-race, maybe something other than rice cakes. They are not a very dense source of carbs.
I actually like rice as a pre-race meal.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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Your plan looks ok to me. What did you take during your last race? I doubt your breakfast food (the oats) caused your run problems, I'd look at what you ate during the race. Bars do that to me (which is why I don't use them)

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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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I keep it simple - 2-3 bananas and a few cinnamon-raisin bagels with ANPB 3-4 hours before start time. Yes - I wake up specifically to eat then go back to sleep for another hour or so. The rest of the morning I just sip gatorade and maybe have coffee. On the bike I get most of my calories from concentrated nutrition bottles - 4-5 scoops of Hammer Nutrition Perpetuem mixed with coconut water. One bottle to start and a replacement in my special needs bag. I also take in a couple bottles of Gatorade Endurance per hour and throw something fun in my special needs bag - whatever I find at 7-11 the day before the race - cream pie, peanut butter cookies, candy bar, etc.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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I have used a variety of race morning breakfasts. It used to be PB and bagel. Then PB bagel and Ensure x2. Now it has been a chocolate chip muffin and Ensure or pop tart and Ensure. I really focus on eating something that I KNOW I will be able to eat at like 4 AM. My first IM I had trouble with a dry PB and bagel then read Andy Potts eats muffins so I tested that out. I am easy I think since I can handle a lot of foods and still race well so it might be different if your stomach is pickier. But I don't think anything is wrong with 2 tbls of PB. Just make it something simple that you can get and eat at ANY race. But the calorie amount seems good. Maybe some liquid calories?

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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [adal] [ In reply to ]
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For many folks, myself included, protein does a pretty awesome job of not making one feel hungry.

adal wrote:
gymrat wrote:
I am not a fast Ironman distance athlete by any means but I have completed 3 of them and nutrition to keep moving is critical to me. Bigger triathlete fast metabolism lots of muscle low body. You have zero protein in you bike nutrition. For me all that would do is a) make me sick b) I would feel very very very hungry from the first bite until the end of the day.
Perhaps adding some protieen would help.


How does a powerbar have "zero protein"? And why do you need any protein during an IM?

If eating carbs only makes you sicke, there might be an issue with gut health, it is not "normal". For me the pre race meal looks sbout fine (too much fibre though), the problem is the variety of food on the bike ... and even more fibre.

If you have problems, test out a liquid diet: http://www.samiinkinen.com/...205/sami-liquid-diet


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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just out of curiosity how heavy are you and do you have a PM/wattage goal?

366 or so per hour might be perfect, although its about what my spouse has per hour for 5:30-5:40 bike she weighs around 125lbs or so.

Everyone is different though, if you've tested it then no worries.

Maurice
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [gymrat] [ In reply to ]
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gymrat wrote:
It is not "Carbs" per se. It is the high concentration sugar that does me in. Again I am not superfast or strong at Ironman distance(I am fast twitch athlete naturally) and a Half is as far as I can "race" although 5:08 pr for a half probably is not racing either. (Especially on Slowtwitch ;>) )
But protein does helps slow the digestion process a bit "for me" and keeps the hunger and energy spikes and crashes to a minimum. Some people can live on Gatorade or the like all day long regardless of what they do. I cannot do it. I also cannot race on a bagel and peanut butter for breakfast either at 195lbs, I would not make it out of the swim on a minimal breakfast. Some can and do. Especially those at the pointy tip of the results end. Then again they are also a lot smaller people as well. He asked an opinion and I gave it. I would add some "real food" to the mix that has some protein in it. That is all.

The last thing you want in an ironman - especially with a nervous stomach - is "slowing down the digestion process". Your nick says it, you are brainwashed by the t-nation and bodybuilding mindset.

Water, Salz, Carbs and Caffein are proven to enhance performance. Everything else is fine, if you don't have problems. A high sugar concentration only makes you sick, if you drink too little water for osmolality. Now the trick, you can use MORE carbs with less water, if you use longer carb chains:

Glucose (3%) - Sucrose (5-7%) - Malto (10-20% depending on number) - Polystarches like UCAN, waxy maize (almost unlimited)

There is zero need for anything but water, salz and Maltodextrine, some reason to add fructose (other delivery mechanism, can add useable carbs up to a certain extent) and caffeine.

So I would start with the absolut minimum and add from there, again: Water + Maltodextrine + Salt, Then add a little bit of fructose, then add caffein

Add nothing else.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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zoom wrote:
For many folks, myself included, protein does a pretty awesome job of not making one feel hungry.

adal wrote:
gymrat wrote:
I am not a fast Ironman distance athlete by any means but I

And thats the problem! Feeling hungry is absolutely no problem in an ironman, the only thing slowing you down is too little carbs available in your muscles. And the feeling of "fullness" that you rolling buffet provides reduces the ability of the gut to digest the things you need: Water + Salt + Carbs

There is zero proove, that protein does anything for you during a race, it enhances post-race recovery though, so if you have no problems digesting, adding protein is not bad per se, but as long as there are any problems, I would definitely go salt + water + carbs + caffeine in a race and add nothing.

Just balance the carb sources correctly, if you drink 1 litre per hour and want 400 calories, than you need a rather long chain carb like maltodextrine, ucan, waxy maize and not just sugars to have a correct osmolality. My preferred mix for a 750 ml bottle: 40g Maltodextrine, 15g Fructose.

All solid food sources (gels, bars, sandwiches, Steaks) need to be accounted for when calculating osmolality, which is very difficult, just leave them out. Gels with 300ml of water is fine though, as is coke with water 1:1.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [adal] [ In reply to ]
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1. Not sure what you're babbling about. Maybe you should drink decaf. I've never said anything about getting your protein from a buffet during an Ironman. I get all my protein from my gels + Infinit mixture. In fact, in all of my 5 IMs, that's all I take .... all liquid diet, including during the run.

2. Please point to me where I said that I take protein during the race to make me faster. I said taking protein during the race makes me feel not hungry

adal wrote:
zoom wrote:
For many folks, myself included, protein does a pretty awesome job of not making one feel hungry.

adal wrote:
gymrat wrote:
I am not a fast Ironman distance athlete by any means but I


And thats the problem! Feeling hungry is absolutely no problem in an ironman, the only thing slowing you down is too little carbs available in your muscles. And the feeling of "fullness" that you rolling buffet provides reduces the ability of the gut to digest the things you need: Water + Salt + Carbs

There is zero proove, that protein does anything for you during a race, it enhances post-race recovery though, so if you have no problems digesting, adding protein is not bad per se, but as long as there are any problems, I would definitely go salt + water + carbs + caffeine in a race and add nothing.

Just balance the carb sources correctly, if you drink 1 litre per hour and want 400 calories, than you need a rather long chain carb like maltodextrine, ucan, waxy maize and not just sugars to have a correct osmolality. My preferred mix for a 750 ml bottle: 40g Maltodextrine, 15g Fructose.

All solid food sources (gels, bars, sandwiches, Steaks) need to be accounted for when calculating osmolality, which is very difficult, just leave them out. Gels with 300ml of water is fine though, as is coke with water 1:1.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [yorkcb7] [ In reply to ]
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I think you and I have the same nutritionist...I followed the same plan for LP
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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2,6-7 watts per kg and just above 5 hrs

I have done 4 ironman so far and this was the only one with serious problems with stomach

I had about 450-500 calories per hour maybe even a bit more and that was simply too much. I do however also suspect the oatmeal to contribute and all liquids were perform and added electrolyte tabs to that

I plan on cutting the oatmeal and also replace some perform with water to dilute a bit
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [jdee3] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, probably... Works good, last along time.
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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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Don't ask me. My last 1/2 IM, I had two Pop Tarts an hour before the race chased down with Gatorade. I'm an MOP racer though.

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Re: Your view on my ironman race morning breakfast and bike nutrition [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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Just did my first IM at Lake Placid last weekend and finished just under 12 hours so not super fast but not bad for my first. For reference I'm a 112lb, 33YO, female. For breakfast at 4am I had a bowl of oatmeal, a glass of orange juice, and 1/2 bottle of IM perform. Then sipped the rest of the IM perform up until my swim warmup at 6am. Then 15min before the swim start I had a GU Roctane gel with water. During the bike I did the following:

0-2 Hours: 2 Bottles of IM Perform, 2 Salt tabs, 1 Bonk Breaker (1/2 per hour)
2-3 Hours: 1 Bottle of Water, 1 Salt tab, 4 GU Chomps
3-5 Hours: 2 Bottles of IM Perform, 2 Salt tabs, 1 Bonk Breaker (1/2 per hour)
5-6.25 Hours: 1 Bottle of Water, 1 Salt tab, 5 GU Chomps

I felt great with no stomach issues - it's taken me a few years to dial in my nutrition. I've found that I can't do GU on the bike and want straight liquid w/solids or semi-solids. I saved the GU roctane for every 4 miles on the run w/water. I'm sure you're a bit larger than me and probably need more calories than what I did but I would simplify your plan. For breakfast maybe try more oats (skip the white rice and eggs) and incorporate some IM Perform for more calories. Then really it's trial and error for the bike to see what works for you - long rides are a prime opportunity to figure out a nutrition plan that works for you. Everyone is different - I've heard of people eating ham sandwiches, burgers, soda, and junk food at special needs on the bike (althought I'd bet they are closer to the 14-17hr finish time frame). You'll get a wide range of responses and the only real way to figure out what works for you is to experiment.


Elisha
"Triathlon doesn't build character. It reveals it."
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