Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr

Dec 25, 17 8:50

Post #1 of 38 (6637 views)

The tl;dr version:
I'm looking to move to a direct drive trainer and trying to decide between a Hammer, Direto, or Kickr. What would you choose and why?

The more detailed version:
I've been using a PowerBeam Pro for a little over 3 years. It's been a great workhorse but getting a bit outdated: no bluetooth and requires the legacy TrainerRoad app so I have to commandeer my wife's laptop while riding, which doesn't always go over well. I recently converted my old tri bike into a trainer-only bike, so I have no need for wheel swaps and would rather have a direct drive trainer (typically more accurate, easier/more reliable calibration, and no wheel slipping).

I don't care about the wahoo climb thing, I don't care about simulating downhills or cobblestones, I don't need a bunch of different thru axles, I don't care much about noise but quieter would be a plus.

What I care about most are accuracy/consistency and reliability. And dual ANT+/BlueTooth, but that's pretty much standard across smart trainers now. I use TrainerRoad and sometimes Sufferfest; haven't tried Zwift or other platforms and I don't currently feel any need to switch from or add to TR and Sufferfest.

Direto with the DcR discount would be the least expensive, but new trainers often have some bugs to work out. CycleOps typically does a 20% off for trading in an old trainer, so a Hammer would be about a hundred bucks more. The Kickr is 3 generations in but would likely be the most expensive.

I could also try to sell the PowerBeam Pro, but I don't know how much an older non-BTLE "smart" trainer goes for these days.

Thoughts?

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 9:00

Post #2 of 38 (6627 views)

Was on a Powerbeam Pro for 4 years ... it just wouldn't die. Upgraded to the Hammer this fall. Stayed w Cyclops because of great experience w customer service. Also went with Rouvy. Like moving from the Dark Ages to Post Industrial revolution in one day.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 9:17

Post #3 of 38 (6611 views)

Did you sell your PowerBeam or keep it?

I’ve also had good experience with CycleOps, and the PowerBeam has been solid. Bodes well for the Hammer.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 9:32

Post #4 of 38 (6592 views)

Kept it as a back up, travel trainer when driving. The Powerbeam Pro is very old and finnicky to lock onto my old Joule 3 ... might lock on in 30 secs or take up to 5 mins.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 15:20

Post #5 of 38 (6461 views)

Neo. Because it’s the best.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Silvercivic27] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 15:35

Post #6 of 38 (6448 views)

I don’t doubt the Neo may be the best, but if it’s between a Neo versus a Hammer plus a disc plus a little cash left over I think I’ll go for the latter.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Silvercivic27] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 15:58

Post #7 of 38 (6427 views)

Silvercivic27 wrote:

Neo. Because it’s the best.

Until you have to ship it back for service.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 16:00

Post #8 of 38 (6423 views)

Northy wrote:

The tl;dr version:
I'm looking to move to a direct drive trainer and trying to decide between a Hammer, Direto, or Kickr. What would you choose and why?

The more detailed version:
I've been using a PowerBeam Pro for a little over 3 years. It's been a great workhorse but getting a bit outdated: no bluetooth and requires the legacy TrainerRoad app so I have to commandeer my wife's laptop while riding, which doesn't always go over well. I recently converted my old tri bike into a trainer-only bike, so I have no need for wheel swaps and would rather have a direct drive trainer (typically more accurate, easier/more reliable calibration, and no wheel slipping).

I don't care about the wahoo climb thing, I don't care about simulating downhills or cobblestones, I don't need a bunch of different thru axles, I don't care much about noise but quieter would be a plus.

What I care about most are accuracy/consistency and reliability. And dual ANT+/BlueTooth, but that's pretty much standard across smart trainers now. I use TrainerRoad and sometimes Sufferfest; haven't tried Zwift or other platforms and I don't currently feel any need to switch from or add to TR and Sufferfest.

Direto with the DcR discount would be the least expensive, but new trainers often have some bugs to work out. CycleOps typically does a 20% off for trading in an old trainer, so a Hammer would be about a hundred bucks more. The Kickr is 3 generations in but would likely be the most expensive.

I could also try to sell the PowerBeam Pro, but I don't know how much an older non-BTLE "smart" trainer goes for these days.

Thoughts?

Hey there!

These trainers are all excellent choices, however it is worth mentioning that the Kickr is the only trainer out of the three that can be calibrated within TrainerRoad. We are still working on the calibration for both the Hammer and the Direto, so they will need to be calibrated within their respective utility apps before you pair them to TrainerRoad.

Enjoy your new trainer!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 17:06

Post #9 of 38 (6387 views)

HuffNPuff wrote:

Silvercivic27 wrote:

Neo. Because it’s the best.

IF you have to ship it back for service.

FIFY...and if you bought it at a good shop, they might get you a loaner while you get yours fixed, but maybe that’s just my situation. Wouldn’t know because mine has been rock solid with zero issues for over a year at this point.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 17:09

Post #10 of 38 (6384 views)

Bryce Lewis TR wrote:

Northy wrote:

The tl;dr version:
I'm looking to move to a direct drive trainer and trying to decide between a Hammer, Direto, or Kickr. What would you choose and why?

The more detailed version:
I've been using a PowerBeam Pro for a little over 3 years. It's been a great workhorse but getting a bit outdated: no bluetooth and requires the legacy TrainerRoad app so I have to commandeer my wife's laptop while riding, which doesn't always go over well. I recently converted my old tri bike into a trainer-only bike, so I have no need for wheel swaps and would rather have a direct drive trainer (typically more accurate, easier/more reliable calibration, and no wheel slipping).

I don't care about the wahoo climb thing, I don't care about simulating downhills or cobblestones, I don't need a bunch of different thru axles, I don't care much about noise but quieter would be a plus.

What I care about most are accuracy/consistency and reliability. And dual ANT+/BlueTooth, but that's pretty much standard across smart trainers now. I use TrainerRoad and sometimes Sufferfest; haven't tried Zwift or other platforms and I don't currently feel any need to switch from or add to TR and Sufferfest.

Direto with the DcR discount would be the least expensive, but new trainers often have some bugs to work out. CycleOps typically does a 20% off for trading in an old trainer, so a Hammer would be about a hundred bucks more. The Kickr is 3 generations in but would likely be the most expensive.

I could also try to sell the PowerBeam Pro, but I don't know how much an older non-BTLE "smart" trainer goes for these days.

Thoughts?

Hey there!

These trainers are all excellent choices, however it is worth mentioning that the Kickr is the only trainer out of the three that can be calibrated within TrainerRoad. We are still working on the calibration for both the Hammer and the Direto, so they will need to be calibrated within their respective utility apps before you pair them to TrainerRoad.

Enjoy your new trainer!

Really? I thought TR had Hammer calibration support.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Silvercivic27] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 18:34

Post #11 of 38 (6330 views)

I'm simply referring to known quality problems the Neo had reported by DC Rainmaker. The time and expense of shipping back internationally is prohibitive. Glad you didn't have an issue but I wasn't taking the chance. That said, I think they've fixed their prior quality issues.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 25, 17 23:48

Post #12 of 38 (6252 views)

I spent 6 months debating the same three trainers, i previously owned a power beam pro as well. Decided on a new V3 kickr, i am not disappointed. Power is within 1% of my quarq, easy connectivity, and i know if there is an issue it will be handled quickly. Road feel is great on zwift and erg mode is as painful as ever. The deciding factor was customer service if the unite broke, i just could not trust an overseas manufacturer.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 5:23

Post #13 of 38 (6155 views)

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

The deciding factor was customer service if the unite broke, i just could not trust an overseas manufacturer.

I get this as a reason to pass on the Direto, but what tipped the scales toward the Kickr3 over the Hammer? Just curious, I imagine I’ll be happy either way.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 6:33

Post #14 of 38 (6119 views)

I'm kickring myself for getting the Kickr SNAP instead of direct-drive. Damn, the power might as well be a random number generator. "3%" my ass. (Even after 10-minute warmup, spindown, etc). I just made some graphs which I submitted to Wahoo technical support.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 6:36

Post #15 of 38 (6118 views)

I went for a Kickr. Apart from having a unbelievable deal on the Version 2 the deciding factor for me was the option to let the Kickr be governed by my Power Meter on the bike. So I can train with the same power both on the turbo and outdoors. It's not essential, but it's a pretty cool feature to ensure consistency. I don't think the other turbo trainers offer this feature but I may be wrong.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 7:58

Post #16 of 38 (6080 views)

Northy wrote:

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

The deciding factor was customer service if the unite broke, i just could not trust an overseas manufacturer.

I get this as a reason to pass on the Direto, but what tipped the scales toward the Kickr3 over the Hammer? Just curious, I imagine I’ll be happy either way.

I have friends who had issues that were resolved quickly. To be fair cycleops has great service as well. My main concern with the hammer was potential accuracy issues and connectivity. Both of those issues seem to be mostly resolved with newer firmware updates on the hammer but the kickr 3 was a known entity. The hammer is on the first version, Wahoo is on version three, having parsed out a long list of issues.

Last edited by: Ron_Burgundy: Dec 26, 17 9:00

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 8:24

Post #17 of 38 (6060 views)

Just one data point: other than a weird bluetooth connectivity issue I narrowed down to my headphones, I've been very happy with my Direto. I basically just roll out of bed every morning, select the appropriate workout from TR, and push the pedals.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 9:05

Post #18 of 38 (6035 views)

I went from Kickr to Hammer and love it.

I had a hard time buying a smart trainer and i felt like i didn't need the fancy stuff to get in a good workout. Always rode a magnetic trainer. Found a good deal on a Kickr and loved it.

I would use Zwift for aerobic rides and then sometimes used Trainer Road and Zwift to build workouts but didn't enjoy that. I often find that the power from my power meter and trainer are different (10-20 watts) so i just scrapped it and use the app for my actual sessions. The Wahoo app.

Now I have the Hammer and find that the feel is better the Kickr, much smoother. The nice thing is if you just want to ride it like a trainer you can, without an app... i really like that.

The only apps i use with my trainer are Zwift for endurance rides and and Sufferfest. The bummer with Sufferfest and Hammer is that it wont work in erg mode. When i was using sufferfest and zwift in erg mode... that was some serious efforts, loved it.

Its a toss up between Kickr and Hammer. Both are very solid, i don't think you will regret either purchase.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 10:56

Post #19 of 38 (5989 views)

The Direto is definitely still tempting. Great price and according to DCR it’s very accurate and consistent. Do you have any experience with Elite customer service? My biggest hesitancy is that it’s still so new and I have no idea how easy/hard Elite is to work with in case something goes wrong, either while working out initial kinks or 2-3-4 years down the road.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [trail] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 13:54

Post #20 of 38 (5949 views)

That was the same issue i had with the power beam pro (same as kickr snap). Ended up back on a dumb trainer and now a kickr. As always attention to detail is critical, zero offset, spin down, firmware up to date etc.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 14:34

Post #21 of 38 (5924 views)

blueapplepaste wrote:

Really? I thought TR had Hammer calibration support.

Unfortunately not quite yet :(

Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 14:41

Post #22 of 38 (5920 views)

I would suggest visiting DC Rainmaker and reading his reviews. FWIW, after reading all the reviews of the various trainers, I pulled the trigger on an Elite Direto with the 20% off Clever Training sale. Huge demand has led to back orders, so I haven’t gotten it yet, but based on the reviews it seems like the trainer to beat.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 19:01

Post #23 of 38 (5856 views)

If you opt for a direct drive trainer, make sure you're cast-iron certain your bike or bikes will all fit on it. I got caught out by SCS on my Diverge and have been really irritated about it. Tacx seem to do a far better job comparability wise.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [spot] [ In reply to ]

Dec 27, 17 5:06

Post #24 of 38 (5802 views)

spot wrote:

I pulled the trigger on an Elite Direto with the 20% off Clever Training sale.

Just so I'm not missing anything, the 20% off Clever Training sale a few people have mentioned was the deal from back in November, right? There's no current 20% off as far as I can tell. Though there is the regular 10% off VIP discount.

Re: Yet another trainer decision: Hammer, Direto, or Kickr [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 27, 17 5:15

Post #25 of 38 (5792 views)

Does anyone know if any of these newer direct-drive smart trainers have solved the issue my (and others') gen1 Kickrs had where it would, occasionally, spike or plunge the resistance for a few seconds for no good reason? Yes, I know it's likely a matter of interference of some sort, but I'm hoping one of the newer sorts is robust enough to deal with it.

Also, does anyone know why none of them has a wired option? Trainers don't often move, and if you're driving it from a laptop or desktop with USB it would provide a far more stable data stream than ANT+ or BT, and those could still be options for people who wanted them. I'd love to be able to just lay down a 10' USB cable though, turn off the radios in the Kickr, and have less interference with my Garmin.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

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