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Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel
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Interesting to see Wurf using a very shallow rim on the front in Kona. I know he probably has some to spare on the bike, but still noteworthy. In the final TT of the 2017 TDF a lot of the top contenders, including Froome, chose to ride a 50ish or lower front wheel. I'm guessing Wurf figured that what he lost in Aero he would gain through improved bike handling? MAybe the same for final TT in the 2017 TDF?

Will
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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a lot of the grand tour TTs are relatively short and fairly technical so the difference between say a 404 and a 808 rim would be negligible, particularly where they are having to frequently accelerate out of corners and build back up to speed: i notice in particular richie porte uses a shallow rim pretty much always (and he is a top tester but also relatively small/light). a 808 would be quicker once up to speed but a 404 would be quicker to get up to speed.

compare this to kona which is a complete drag strip, ride to one end of the island, turn around and ride back which would usually suit the largest rims allowed but clearly the wind, and notably the gusts, would be a major contributory factor in deciding rim depth.

i guess the athlete has to make the decision about the potentially quicker speed of the bigger rim and being blown around more and possibly slowing down occasionally, against the smaller rim which would give better handling and less time spent worrying about being blown off the road.
Last edited by: moonmonkey02: Oct 17, 17 1:54
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Not to mention round bottles, no integrated hydration, no fairings and according to LAVA there were only four in this years race.....and yet a Pinarello is now the fastest bike around Kona.
Perhaps its not about the bike? Or is it?
In any case, well ridden Cam Wurf.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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The Pinerello was designed to have a round bottle on the down tube.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Meh, it's not that shallow. Looks about like a Zipp 404.


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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Barlow wrote:
Interesting to see Wurf using a very shallow rim on the front in Kona. I know he probably has some to spare on the bike, but still noteworthy. In the final TT of the 2017 TDF a lot of the top contenders, including Froome, chose to ride a 50ish or lower front wheel. I'm guessing Wurf figured that what he lost in Aero he would gain through improved bike handling? MAybe the same for final TT in the 2017 TDF?

Will

Whatever he lost he gained on the descent from Hawi where he was able to gap Lionel. Lionel had to put a 350W surge for 20 min to catch back up when they got past Kawaihai. But I would have thought as an ex protour rider, he'd have been fine on 70-90mm depth.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
Not to mention round bottles, no integrated hydration, no fairings and according to LAVA there were only four in this years race.....and yet a Pinarello is now the fastest bike around Kona.
Perhaps its not about the bike? Or is it?
In any case, well ridden Cam Wurf.

Please tell me youre kidding with this.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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A bit shallower than a 404. To my eye that appears to be 45-50mm so more like 303 territory.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Barlow wrote:
Interesting to see Wurf using a very shallow rim on the front in Kona. I know he probably has some to spare on the bike, but still noteworthy. In the final TT of the 2017 TDF a lot of the top contenders, including Froome, chose to ride a 50ish or lower front wheel. I'm guessing Wurf figured that what he lost in Aero he would gain through improved bike handling? MAybe the same for final TT in the 2017 TDF?

Will

Some notable things I observed about Cam. He was previously on with Cannondale and he told me Cannondale had invested a lot to make him fast on that bike. He road it last year including Ironman Arizona and paired it with a Rudy Project helmet. Earlier this year he was on a Ventum pair with what looks like a Selector. Now the Pinni with a Bambino. That is a lot of changes in a year and that is


Ironman Arizona: http://www.finisherpix.com/...4_000525#1554_000525
Ironman South Africa Pics: http://www.finisherpix.com/...hotos/en/zar/1701/73
Ironman Kona: http://www.tririg.com/..._Race_Day&num=55

His position doesn't look all that aggressive either compared to some others.


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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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He has been training with Chris Froome so he was probably able to score some spare Pina / Kask stock from Team Sky...
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [SAvan] [ In reply to ]
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SAvan wrote:
He has been training with Chris Froome so he was probably able to score some spare Pina / Kask stock from Team Sky...

But why. If Cannondale invested that much into testing on a Cannondale, why rock the boat.


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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Only he can answer that. Obviously Cannondale and other bike manufacturers are not sponsoring him (now), so he can ride what he likes. You can see he has a distinct lack of sponsors on his kit.

I speculate he convinced his cycling mates to get him some wind tunnel testing at Sky's facilities, along with the Pinarello and Kask, and found it was faster than the Cannondale and Ventum (highly likely). He wasn't able to convince Chris to give him the $10,000 3D-printed titanium aero bars tho.

All speculation of course... ;)
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [SAvan] [ In reply to ]
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I can't speak to any of the bike speculation, but a quick Instagram search shows he spent some time with Aaron Ross at Faster. I believe those are rebadged Edco wheels, a Fluela (85mm) in the back and an Umbrial (45mm) up front
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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That's the Slice RS though. FWIW there are two guys that ride the Airport TT series on those and neither has ever gotten the rear brake to work.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Please tell me youre kidding with this.


Probably meant as a bit of a joke and sarcasm.

Many in the triathlon business and here on the form go on and on about how this is more aero than that. Certain bike brands and certain bikes are held up as the gold standard, yet here's a guy riding a bike brand that NEVER gets mentioned - Pinarello, and he's breaking the vaunted bike course record at Kona handily.

Now I am guessing the Pinarello bike is not a dog - don't forget, Brad Wiggans set the World Hour Record on one (A track version of the Bolide). Is it the absolute best and most aero bike, perhaps not, but I'm guessing it's not that bad either!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Barlow wrote:
Interesting to see Wurf using a very shallow rim on the front in Kona. I know he probably has some to spare on the bike, but still noteworthy. In the final TT of the 2017 TDF a lot of the top contenders, including Froome, chose to ride a 50ish or lower front wheel. I'm guessing Wurf figured that what he lost in Aero he would gain through improved bike handling? MAybe the same for final TT in the 2017 TDF?

Will


Whatever he lost he gained on the descent from Hawi where he was able to gap Lionel. Lionel had to put a 350W surge for 20 min to catch back up when they got past Kawaihai. But I would have thought as an ex protour rider, he'd have been fine on 70-90mm depth.

yeah, I think this was his plan - thus the shallow front. Another thread reminded me where he basically attacked the group at the feed station just after the turn around, and then bombed the decent.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Please tell me youre kidding with this.


Probably meant as a bit of a joke and sarcasm.

Many in the triathlon business and here on the form go on and on about how this is more aero than that. Certain bike brands and certain bikes are held up as the gold standard, yet here's a guy riding a bike brand that NEVER gets mentioned - Pinarello, and he's breaking the vaunted bike course record at Kona handily.

Now I am guessing the Pinarello bike is not a dog - don't forget, Brad Wiggans set the World Hour Record on one (A track version of the Bolide). Is it the absolute best and most aero bike, perhaps not, but I'm guessing it's not that bad either!

Yeah, the last line of the post made me think he/she was being serious.

Yeah that being said you got my point. Two bikes that broke the previous course record on saturday are the Pinarello and the LG. Brands combined for 10 in the bike count, certainly not held as tri bike gold standard as you say. It is the rider which makes the biggest difference, to an overwhelming degree.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
Fleck wrote:
Please tell me youre kidding with this.


Probably meant as a bit of a joke and sarcasm.

Many in the triathlon business and here on the form go on and on about how this is more aero than that. Certain bike brands and certain bikes are held up as the gold standard, yet here's a guy riding a bike brand that NEVER gets mentioned - Pinarello, and he's breaking the vaunted bike course record at Kona handily.

Now I am guessing the Pinarello bike is not a dog - don't forget, Brad Wiggans set the World Hour Record on one (A track version of the Bolide). Is it the absolute best and most aero bike, perhaps not, but I'm guessing it's not that bad either!


Yeah, the last line of the post made me think he/she was being serious.

Yeah that being said you got my point. Two bikes that broke the previous course record on saturday are the Pinarello and the LG. Brands combined for 10 in the bike count, certainly not held as tri bike gold standard as you say. It is the rider which makes the biggest difference, to an overwhelming degree.


The absolute last line (congratulating Cam) was serious. Above that it was a bit of dry humour. Fleck summed it up pretty well - I didn't even mention the LG either. In any case, its in the record books now.
Here is Cam's blog, hopefully he'll add a Kona update soon and enlighten us a little. For now though, his last entry (IM Wales) gives a lot of insight into his relationship with Froome/Tim Kerrison/Sky and via them; Pinarello.

http://cameronwurf.blogspot.com.au/
Last edited by: PT: Oct 18, 17 6:13
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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Cam has posted a Kona blog, worth a read. Writes about most aspects of his day, including equipment choices.

http://cameronwurf.blogspot.com.au/
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I looked at my average speed for the first time. I had no timer set up, simply speed, heart rate, distance, and average speed.

Does this mean Cameron Wurf was not riding to power data or what? He never mentions any power or wattage in his report (but he does mention heart rate bpm).
Last edited by: Rachela: Oct 19, 17 4:34
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Rachela] [ In reply to ]
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Dang I wish my FTP was so high that I didn't need to pay attention to my power. Cam is an absolute monster.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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good god, somebody please introduce that guy to the return key!! lol
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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I would also recommend using Microsoft Word with spell check on.

"Championchips"

https://www.strava.com/athletes/4391866

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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Barlow wrote:
Interesting to see Wurf using a very shallow rim on the front in Kona. I know he probably has some to spare on the bike, but still noteworthy. In the final TT of the 2017 TDF a lot of the top contenders, including Froome, chose to ride a 50ish or lower front wheel. I'm guessing Wurf figured that what he lost in Aero he would gain through improved bike handling? MAybe the same for final TT in the 2017 TDF?

Will

In his blog post he explains why he choose the shallow front wheel. He even explicitly called out Jan for going deeper and struggling to control his bike.
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Re: Wurf - Kona shallow front wheel [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
good god, somebody please introduce that guy to the return key!! lol

+1!!!!
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