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Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long

 

   


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 10:40

Post #1 of 24 (2692 views)
Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long Quote | Reply

I went out this morning for an 11 miler. And in a nutshell I guess I blew up.
I was hurting by mile 3 but I figured I'd slow my pace and continued. Was sipping Gatorade and sucked down a gel at 40 minutes in. After a while i could feel the flem in my throat and stopped drinking the gatorade. From the Gatorade I guess.
At 7 miles I was close to my truck and stopped to get water. It was a quick stop (30 seconds) and when I tried to start running my legs did not want to go. I stopped for about 15 more seconds and started to run.
My last loop was ugly. My pace was at a crawl and I was really hurting. When I finally made it back to my truck I was in bad shape.
Dizzy, felt like throwing up. Could not drink. My stomach was feeling weird. All around messed up.
I was worried about driving do to the dizziness issue. Finally made it home. Had to sit in a cold bath and it took me hours to feel decent.
Even now i have spasms in my Calves, hams, quads and other muscles.
Dehydrated? Lack of carbs? Over trained?

Help!
Tony.


ddalzell

Apr 14, 12 10:46

Post #2 of 24 (2678 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

sounds like a nutrition issue.. what did you eat last night? what did you have for breakfast? do you have enough electrolytes in your body? have you been overtraining all week?

Same thing use to happen to me. I'm training for an Ironman and was scared of longer distances. I started the Paleo diet for athletes 2 months ago and haven't had any issues like that anymore

It's amazing how big of a factor proper nutrition plays... I alwasy make sure I eat right before a long day and always have plenty of electrolytes on hand (I sweat a lot).

find a diet that works for you and stick with it! make sure you are taking in enough calories an hour and fluids during exercise... most people fall in the 200-300 cal/hour and 20-32 oz of fluids/hour... I'm at 450 cal/hour and roughly 32-40 oz/hour.... (I know...WTF!). Just find what works for you...

Take today's training as a positive of what NOT to do and build on that! It will get better with better nutrition! Now you already know what doesn't work... try something new next time! :)
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toj

Apr 14, 12 11:21

Post #3 of 24 (2622 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I agree with the above post... it does sound like it's part of a nutritional issue, especially sodium and electrolytes.

Also, this is part of the learning-curve in distance running. We've all experienced it. Don't get too discouraged or down on yourself. You will have days when you feel like you're flying; you will have days when you feel like you're dying. It's all part of the journey.

Experiment with your sodium intake and fluids. Learn and adjust.

Ray


Dreadnought

Apr 14, 12 11:27

Post #4 of 24 (2611 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

roadracer618 wrote:
I went out this morning for an 11 miler. And in a nutshell I guess I blew up.
I was hurting by mile 3 but I figured I'd slow my pace and continued. Was sipping Gatorade and sucked down a gel at 40 minutes in. After a while i could feel the flem in my throat and stopped drinking the gatorade. From the Gatorade I guess.
At 7 miles I was close to my truck and stopped to get water. It was a quick stop (30 seconds) and when I tried to start running my legs did not want to go. I stopped for about 15 more seconds and started to run.
My last loop was ugly. My pace was at a crawl and I was really hurting. When I finally made it back to my truck I was in bad shape.
Dizzy, felt like throwing up. Could not drink. My stomach was feeling weird. All around messed up.
I was worried about driving do to the dizziness issue. Finally made it home. Had to sit in a cold bath and it took me hours to feel decent.
Even now i have spasms in my Calves, hams, quads and other muscles.
Dehydrated? Lack of carbs? Over trained?

Help!
Tony.


this list did not include the self-inlicted kind:

http://readingshouts.wordpress.com/...ices-in-the-history/


Devlin

Apr 14, 12 11:33

Post #5 of 24 (2594 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [toj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

toj wrote:
I agree with the above post... it does sound like it's part of a nutritional issue, especially sodium and electrolytes.

Also, this is part of the learning-curve in distance running. We've all experienced it. Don't get too discouraged or down on yourself. You will have days when you feel like you're flying; you will have days when you feel like you're dying. It's all part of the journey.

Experiment with your sodium intake and fluids. Learn and adjust.

Ray

x2. Also, what were the conditions compared to what you are usually running in? Was 11 miles a big jump for you?

John


Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |


dave_voyageur

Apr 14, 12 12:25

Post #6 of 24 (2545 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Do nutritional issues normally take hold at 3 miles into a run? Doubtful unless you worked out hard the previous few days and failed to eat.

- What was your training & fatigue state coming into the run?
- What was the temperature? Was it far higher than to what you are accustomed?
- Are you sick or getting sick?
- You should have given up after 7 miles. Listen to your body!


lightheir

Apr 14, 12 13:08

Post #7 of 24 (2485 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

TOTALLY disagree on nutritional issues.

You cannot possibly burn through your calories and bonk unless you had intentionally starved / dehydrated yourself the days prior. If it were so easy to bonk, even in an untrained state, the human race would have died out in our search for food back in the caveman days.

You might have had a vasovagal type reaction, where blood pressure drops pretty low because of some unknown reason, akin to when women faint in certain situations. Could be the onset of an illness, or some other stressor, but it does happen from time to time, and it can cause you to even pass out if you ignore the cues. (I've watched my perfectly healthy wife turn downright blue when she experienced one of these - came to once we laid her down and raised her legs.)

It's def not the nutrition, though. Nutrition only starts to become a real limting factor in races over 3 hrs - even for a marathon, nutrition is rarely the reason for a big drop in performance.


tricrazy

Apr 14, 12 13:13

Post #8 of 24 (2470 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Sounds like a bug to me.......either that or you are completely overtrained. I would take a couple days off, get good rest/hydration/nutrition and then see how ya feel.......dont be a idiot, take the couple days off!


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 13:23

Post #9 of 24 (2455 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [dave_voyageur] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the input and questions:

Training this week prior to the run was at 9:xx hours.
Temp was awesome - 70ish. In fact my last 1.5 I was caught in a massive thunderstorm.
I hope not! I'm running a half marathon on the 29th.
Totally agree - I should have stopped. I was done. I guess the old school Jar Head in me still remembers "Pain is weakness leaving the body". Now that I'm 47 - stopping is the smart thing.


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 13:27

Post #10 of 24 (2450 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [Devlin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hey Dev,

Two Saturdays ago I did a 10 miler. Have been progressing on a weekly basis.
Last Saturday I did a mile swim, 12 mile bike and topped it off w/ a 9 mile run.
My last two long workouts have felt great.

I'm a work in progress. I am new to longer distances. Always went short and now it's time to make a move before I'm too old.
Tony


tricrazy

Apr 14, 12 13:29

Post #11 of 24 (2443 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hooyah!


djh9b

Apr 14, 12 13:37

Post #12 of 24 (2433 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I don't mean to be a pretentious jerk but I am not so sure 11 miles is actually a LONG run. I suppose it depends on your pace but 11 miles for me is in no-man's land between a hard tempo run and a true long run. From an energy perspective you should have plenty of glycogen to see you through 11 miles if its run at long run pace. You really shouldn't need to take Gatorade or gels with you but might benefit from water if you have a high sweat rate or live in Houston. You are sick, fatigued or running at the wrong pace. Good luck.


hammonjj

Apr 14, 12 13:47

Post #13 of 24 (2409 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

As others have said, nutrition sounds like the culprit, but what was your morning meal like? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a simple matter of not having enough calories to start with. Also, I'm not a fan of Gatorade, it always messes with my stomach. I have found success with Hammer products as well as Skratch Labs.


(This post was edited by hammonjj on Apr 14, 12 13:48)


npage148

Apr 14, 12 13:56

Post #14 of 24 (2385 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I say you're sick and you just don't know it. Hydration or nutrition issues won't set in at mile 3 and then destroy you by mile 11. Just isnt enough time with what you're telling us


(This post was edited by npage148 on Apr 14, 12 13:58)


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 14:25

Post #15 of 24 (2340 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [djh9b] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My feelings are hurt.... ; ) totally kidding! I sometimes forget this is slowtwitch and the animals on here eat more miles than that for breakfast!
It was a long run for me. I usually go with just water but I didn't eat breakfast. Got up at 05:30 for my run and had my swim planned for later today.
I had one gel w/ me and 8 onces of Gatorade.

I did have a great ride on my trainer last night. I Felt awesome, did Angels from Sufferfest and a little more to cap my ride off.


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 14:30

Post #16 of 24 (2324 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [hammonjj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I Starting to think that Gatorade is not my friend. I was thinking back and I felt that same weird feeling once before while drinking the stuff.

Time for a change.


Devlin

Apr 14, 12 14:38

Post #17 of 24 (2312 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

roadracer618 wrote:
I Starting to think that Gatorade is not my friend. I was thinking back and I felt that same weird feeling once before while drinking the stuff.

Time for a change.

Might be something in the gatorade that disagrees with you. You mentioned that you did the Angels sufferfest then didn't have breakfast, did you eat after the workout the night previous?

And the marines were mostly right. Pain is weakness leaving the body, but this wasn't pain. This was blind staggering. :D

Doesn't sound like there were external conditions or it was a stretch run for you. But, if you didn't eat much (if at all) after the bike and then didn't eat before the run, I'm leaning towards an empty fuel tank. How did you feel before starting out?

John


Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |


roadracer618

Apr 14, 12 14:55

Post #18 of 24 (2296 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [Devlin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I had some pumpkin, sunflower seeds mixed with some dried fruit. not a tone of the mix but maybe too much.

Come to think of it I did feel heavy this morning. My stomach that is...
Maybe the combo of the nuts and Gatorade or something....

Crazy thing is I was still having calve spasms until about five minutes ago.

One more thing. I weighed myself. I'm at 149.5 after breakfast, lunch and tons of fluids.

I have not been below 152 since 2002. Don't get me wrong, I need to be at 140!
Not that it means anything but could be that I did not replenish after yesterday's workouts.


Karaya1

Apr 14, 12 22:57

Post #19 of 24 (2079 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I agree with this. While you should eat breakfast, especially before your long run, it will not cause problems at mile 3. If you had not eaten dinner, drank any water, and skipped breakfast then, maybe you would feel like that after 3 miles. Some days the body needs a rest and it will let you know, like it did yesterday. There are a myriad of reasons why but the #1 will be that you are fighting an infection of some sort even if you can not really tell yet.

You could heavily binge drink the night before and eat a kebap as you stumble home, wake up, slam some water and a small meal and crank out 11 no problem if your body was healthy. Trust me, I speak from experience. I have done most of my long workouts hung over this year.
lightheir wrote:
TOTALLY disagree on nutritional issues.

You cannot possibly burn through your calories and bonk unless you had intentionally starved / dehydrated yourself the days prior. If it were so easy to bonk, even in an untrained state, the human race would have died out in our search for food back in the caveman days.

You might have had a vasovagal type reaction, where blood pressure drops pretty low because of some unknown reason, akin to when women faint in certain situations. Could be the onset of an illness, or some other stressor, but it does happen from time to time, and it can cause you to even pass out if you ignore the cues. (I've watched my perfectly healthy wife turn downright blue when she experienced one of these - came to once we laid her down and raised her legs.).

It's def not the nutrition, though. Nutrition only starts to become a real limting factor in races over 3 hrs - even for a marathon, nutrition is rarely the reason for a big drop in performance.


(This post was edited by Karaya0321 on Apr 14, 12 23:02)


adal

Apr 15, 12 1:02

Post #20 of 24 (2019 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

roadracer618 wrote:
I went out this morning for an 11 miler. And in a nutshell I guess I blew up.
I was hurting by mile 3 but I figured I'd slow my pace and continued. Was sipping Gatorade and sucked down a gel at 40 minutes in. After a while i could feel the flem in my throat and stopped drinking the gatorade. From the Gatorade I guess.
At 7 miles I was close to my truck and stopped to get water. It was a quick stop (30 seconds) and when I tried to start running my legs did not want to go. I stopped for about 15 more seconds and started to run.
My last loop was ugly. My pace was at a crawl and I was really hurting. When I finally made it back to my truck I was in bad shape.
Dizzy, felt like throwing up. Could not drink. My stomach was feeling weird. All around messed up.
I was worried about driving do to the dizziness issue. Finally made it home. Had to sit in a cold bath and it took me hours to feel decent.
Even now i have spasms in my Calves, hams, quads and other muscles.
Dehydrated? Lack of carbs? Over trained?

Help!
Tony.

Sounds like a buffet, not a run. 11miler? I would have an espresso and a glass of water 1/2 hour before. Nothing during the run. Your blood can do two thing, digest food OR deliver blood to muscles. Want both? Slow down. You consume too much and too early in the run, in a long run (which starts at 16 miles) I will use gels only AFTER about an hour. Let the body start to come together, before messing it up with sugars.

When you are hungry, eat before the run, which is WAY before the run. 2 rolls with butter and jam 3 hours before or a simple fuel bar (powerbar) an hour before. No calories in the last hour before the run.

If you have to drink during an 11miler, start after an hour ealiest. What you describe happens to me, if I ate too much, my stomach is bloated and sucks water out of the system. So eat lightly the day before running, avoid too much fiber/protein/fat.


dave_voyageur

Apr 15, 12 15:00

Post #21 of 24 (1804 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [roadracer618] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hmmm, if it wasn't too hot then there is something wrong, like getting sick or being overtired. How are you feeling today? What's your weight? Do you take morning heart rates?

In any case, chalk this up as an important experience, in particular the "stop" signals your body was sending you. We all have had runs like this - you should recover fine and be good to try another 11 miler next weekend.


roadracer618

Apr 15, 12 19:47

Post #22 of 24 (1679 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [dave_voyageur] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tired I think is one of my issues. In addition what I ate the night prior and that red Gatorade combo didn't like me.
I'm sleeping 5-6 hrs a night. I think I need some more zzzzz's. Maybe a little more rest will help.
Feeling OK today. A little dragged down but nothing major.
Slept in today (08:30). I'm up at 05:30 everyday. Ate breakfast, was finally able to ride at 13:00. Jumped on my trainer. Did a 2 hour ride. I'm using trainer road for power and chose a workout that wasn't crazy.
Legs felt tired but overall I felt ok. I drank nothing but water for the ride. In fact I didn't eat anything after breakfast until after my ride.
Going out tomorrow for a 5-6 miler at lunch and my swim at night.

Not sure of my weight today and no on the heart rates. Should I be checking my heart rate every am?

12 next Saturday if all goes well.

Tony


erjordahl

Apr 16, 12 9:34

Post #23 of 24 (1533 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [lightheir] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

lightheir wrote:
TOTALLY disagree on nutritional issues.

You cannot possibly burn through your calories and bonk unless you had intentionally starved / dehydrated yourself the days prior. If it were so easy to bonk, even in an untrained state, the human race would have died out in our search for food back in the caveman days.

You might have had a vasovagal type reaction, where blood pressure drops pretty low because of some unknown reason, akin to when women faint in certain situations. Could be the onset of an illness, or some other stressor, but it does happen from time to time, and it can cause you to even pass out if you ignore the cues. (I've watched my perfectly healthy wife turn downright blue when she experienced one of these - came to once we laid her down and raised her legs.)

It's def not the nutrition, though. Nutrition only starts to become a real limting factor in races over 3 hrs - even for a marathon, nutrition is rarely the reason for a big drop in performance.

x2


Michael M

Apr 16, 12 11:11

Post #24 of 24 (1437 views)
Re: Wrecked myself on a long run - advice for future training - long [ddalzell] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Very interesting post... I have a couple of Q.
How do you calculate hos many calories do you consume per hour?
Also @ 450 per hour what are you using to compensate the gap and what brand for Gels, drinks , etc?

   
 
 
 



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