Who actually makes this fork? Merida?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

See: George Hincapie @ Roubaix

Hi Rod,

Very sorry to hear about your accident. I understand from your other post that the dealer is already taking care of you, obviously if there is anything you want to contact Cervelo or me about directly, feel free (gerard@cervelo.com).

I haven’t been on forums in a while due to some unrelated things, but somebody sent me this thread. First point, since we are a growing company, our customer service group continues to grow as well and we have added quite a few people recently, so I think you will find us very responsive to questions you may have about this or anything else, so please don't hesitate to contact us.

We are aware of the issues and concerns being expressed in this forum with the Wolf SL fork which is manufactured for Cervelo by True Temper Sports / Alpha Q. To address these concerns with the fork we supply as original equipment, the correct installation instructions for the Wolf SL fork have been posted in the Manuals section of the Cervelo website at the following link: http://www.cervelo.com/...ForkInstallation.pdf. Please take the time to read and understand these instructions as they pertain not only to the initial installation of the fork, but also to adjustments of the stem or headset, and to inspection of the fork for damage (which we recommend for all forks and other parts as a general practice).

If after reading these instructions you have any questions or concerns about the Cervelo instructions referenced above, please contact our customer service department at 1-866-CERVELO. Alternately, any concerns with Alpha Q-branded instructions provided with the Wolf SL or Alpha Q forks should be directed to True Temper / Alpha Q to have these concerns addressed directly by their customer service team.

Finally, anyone who has any concerns about their Wolf SL fork, or any fork provided as original equipment on a Cervelo bicycle, to please contact Cervelo’s customer service department at 1-866-CERVELO to have this resolved. We will work closely with our dealers to ensure that all customers are happy with their purchases of Cervelo products.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

And again - Gerard shows why it is that so so many people love and support Cervelo.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Thanks Gerard. I've since been contacted by Chris from your customer service dept. as well and my LBS before I even got a chance to call them. Not quite my intention with this post, but I'm absolutely amazed at the far reaching effects of this forum.

You may forget, but you e-mailed me when I first got my SLC (I was one of the first) and this all goes a long way. I am and will remain a very loyal Cervelo customer (as are many on this board).

I hope this now GIANT thread mainly serves to show how parts fail. We all have "high performance" stuff here (5K bike and $500 fork just doesn't even register with most people!) and use it to the fullest (in our hidden desire to be a team CSC wannabe I suppose). I admittedly don't think much about safety until these threads come up from time to time - and this one will certainly have a happy ending for sure. Saving just one other cyclist will make it worth it!

Thanks again for your concern Gerard!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Glad to hear it wasn't any worse!

Any worries about your Planet-X carbon steerer? I don't remember any aluminum inserts coming with mine....

-David

Gerard-
Let me say that I am glad to see that both you and Chris from customer service have taken measures to ensure that your customers are pleased with their Cervelo products. I bought my SLC from the same shop as rroof and have to say that they are one of the most well regarded tri shops in the midwest and have been more than helpful in getting me on well fitting bikes that are safe to ride. I am not sure how much that matters to Cervelo or other large bike companies, but you should feel confident that my LBS is representing your company very well here in south western Ohio. I have the 75mm insert Wolf SL fork and I am, frankly, scared to ride it. I talked with the owner about my fork (still just a frameset and not built up yet) and he has assured me that my SLC will be safe to ride when it leaves his shop. That is good enough for me as their reputation and experience makes their word solid. Good shop, good owner and good mechanics- hopefully that is as important to you as it is to your customers. From what I have seen from your forum, that kind of customer service from the LBS is not universal and I am fortunate enough to be one of their customers. Tough Monday, but it sound like you are working through it. :) Take care.

Hell yeah! I just went and checked after speaking with Record10 on the phone about some other forks that we have been comparing. Learning a TON about this now! The steerer tube on the Planet X fork (and apparently Look and Reynolds) is 2-3 times as thick (hence no aluminum sleeve insert).

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Wow, hadn't noticed how much thinner the steerer tube on the wolf fork is. I have the Wolf CL on my cervelo with the aluminum tube.

Gerard,

do you have the same instructions for the 75mm insert shipped with previous forks (2006 in my case). Or can you at least describe the key measurements in comparison. Thx.

Hi Jeff (and others),

If you have any questions whatsoever with regards to the instructions, please contact our customer service. I hope you can understand I cannot answer every question myself, that's why we have a whole group of people manning (and womanning) the phones. Honestly, they don't mind if you call, that's how they earn a living. If you would stop calling them, they would be out of a job.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Hi cincytri,

Of course the quality of the shop is important to us, I would say it is the most important aspect of the chain. They are the ones who represent us in an area, and they have total influence about how good your experience with us is. there are 4000 bike shops in the US, maybe 400 contact us every year to become a dealer, and we maybe pick 40 of those. We could easily open them up those 400 stores, but we don't think that is the right approach.

Now, it is not that easy to gauge a shop's performance. Of course we visit the stores, and get a reasonable impression. But most important would be customer feedback. Strangely enough, while everybody loves to complain, very few people ever give positive feedback when they are treated well. People simply expect good service, which is reasonable enough, except that it is not that common nowadays. So it's good to point out good service from time to time, not only to help us evaluate stores, but also because they deserve it. So thanks for the feedback on your store.

Now unfortunately, I will slowly have to retreat again, not because I don't like slowtwitch anymore, but because some other, less pleasant things are eating up my time these months.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

The issue is (and I am sure you are aware of this) the fact that those instructions do nothing for people like rroof and others who have the 75mm insert.

Those instructions are awesome and very clear, the fact that something similar hasn't been posted for those of us with 07 and previous model year bikes only adds to the confusion and fear that something may be wrong with our forks and you don't want to post clear instructions because it will mean opening yourself to big problems.

You are aware there are forks with 2 different length inserts, so why only one set of instructions??

Please help! I have contacted customer service as well, all I am asking is to be able to ride my bike worry free.

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Portside Athletics Blog

What did customer service say when you contacted them? Or has your LBS helped at all?

Haven't heard back from Cervelo CS yet. Waiting to go to the LBS until I have definitive instructions and measurements regarding the forks shipped with the 75mm insert. I will have them check it. If it is not Ok, then I will deal with Cervelo for a warranty replacement fork I suppose.

Although, I am guessing they are going to want to pass me along to Alpha Q.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Nice sidestep. The problem is your customer service doesn't know the answer either and with differences ranging up to 15mm existing installs can be in violation or not. Given that the original instructions did not mention anything about the 70mm or 65mm limitations the assumption should be that the majority of forks are installed incorrectly. This is what was posted by a Cervelo employee on your forum trying to address the issue. Given that there are probably thousands of SL's pre 125mm insert this is a significant safety issue and Cervelo needs to step up to the plate before someone gets killed.

"On the topic of the maximum steerer height above the frame for Wolf SL that use 75 mm inserts, True Temper’s recommendation is the same 80 mm. We have posted in two locations our own recommendation for this dimension: 70 mm in the manual section of our website, and 65 mm by me on this forum. Both were derived by the same thought process but the 65 mm value had more margin of error incorporated into it to account of how accurate someone would be with their measurement. The 70 mm value has been deemed more than adequate at this time. The concern that people have expressed on this forum is that Cervelo’s recommendation of 70 mm is lower than that of the True Temper’s instructions of 80 mm. The 70 mm limitation is our recommendation; however the steerer is built using True Temper’s technology and their evaluation criteria may differ from our own."

While I will admit that I haven't taken the time to fully research this issue yet, from a first hand description RRoof gave me, the failure he experienced sounds as though it was caused by stress concentration at the transition where the (shorter) aluminum sleeve erinforces the carbon steerer. I'm a mechanical engineer and this is my trade, though as I stated I haven't researched fully yet, so that is my 'best guess' at this point.

The purpose of my post here is to advise any of you who have the shorter reinforcing tube to either STOP using it, or at the very least, have the setup inspected by someone competent to find damage, AND identify a possible stress concentration, before trusting your neck to this piece of crucial equipment. Not to sound too alarmist here, but being one who has crashed plenty of times, I'd rather see people stay safe!

Cheers, Frasertri. :-)

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"If I had all the money I'd spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink!" (Winston Churchill, I think..)

i take no pride in saying that I too snapped a WOlf SL fork, probably in exactly the same place. thing had been running fine, no issues, setup perfectly, insert perfectly setup, spacers and stack height all within tolerances....
and heading out for a ride, 5 seconds inot the ride, cracko----- and the steerer snaps.
wasnt good at all. went back and grabbed backup bike and rode on.

competitive cyclists warranty'd the fork for me, but i also bot a wolf CL, the alloy steerer, which ihave been using since. i never really worried about allcarbon forks until that crack.
thankfully, i just sort of put a knee down, had just put the foot on the pedals and was going about 1mph. no impact, no damage to me other than my stress levels.

since i've been riding the wolf CL. nothing like spending unspeakable amounts of money on a uber-lite, SLC SL, only 200grams less than a regular one, and giving 1/2 that back because their darn carbon forks break.

i have the SL on my racing bike, but am sticking with the CL on the training bike. too many training miles, too little to gain. too much too lose.
**oh, and competitive cyclist WARRANTIED the entire frame and fork. they assured me that while other shops might just send a fork, CERVELO was usually adamant about wanting the frame back as well. while i hated the situation, didnt stink getting a brand new frame though zero was at issue with the old one.

is there any new news on this? is this a confrimed fork issue with their alpha sq "wolf sl"/s? i've read a few stories pretty similar.

alloy bars , in my opinion, ar ethe sure-fire way to go. i'm a weight nut like anyone, but after seeing bars and stems snap in fast moving race fields barrelling to the finish lines, i am now riding Deda alloy bars and stems. they weigh the same. they have a new titanium finish which is super nice, and its very re-assuring, to some extent, to know that your bar or stem wont snap if you are whomping the balls out of your bike in the last 1k of a race, or a climb, or you get clipped and go down and need to get back up to finish a race or training ride.
you can crank down that stem very securely, crank the shifter pods onto the drops very securely, etc. and not worry about cracking fragile carbon stuff.
i used to race all kinds of carbon bars, stems, then too an accounting of how hard i'm actually pounding those pieces, and what the downside is when stuff cracks. stem or bar cracks, ther eis no coming back. immediate catastrophe.
i'm a weight geek to the max, but in the area of stem/bar, alloy is the trick for me.

Well, Cervelo continues to dance around the issue (see their forum for details for installation spec changes, etc.), but have been taking care of people's concerns and/or requests, but are stopping short of saying anything is "wrong" with the fork(s).

Needless to say I did NOT put a Wolf or Alpha Q fork back on my bike! I thought about the CL, then a lightweight Easton, but decided for an old tried and true Reynolds Ouzo Pro (previously had one on my Vortex). Still reasonably light, VERY stiff (more of a priority for me than comfort), with solid crown, metal dropouts (I take the wheel on/off a lot), etc. But most important, I'm *confident* in the fork (and I carefully looked at, inspected, read, talked, etc. a lot of forks).

I try to support my LBS (who took very good care of me during this process), but I've consistently heard very good things about competitive cyclist if you have to order online (say, you live a long way from a good bike shop).

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

relative to safety and personal injury, this is a moot point...but...that SL and CL is a wicked aerodynamic fork. most tunnel studies including our time at MIT'd tunnel show that the fork isa HUGE component in the aerodynamic equation. that fork, we tested relative to a true temper was somehting like 40seconds in a 40k tt. that huge.
so while i dig going to another fork, its TOTALLY unacceptable for them not to address this since the whole premise of marketing that SLC SL and that WOLF SL fork is a) uber lite weight and b) aerodynamics.

dressing it down to an alternative fork is maybe the secure, safe alternative, but if we have ot do that, then i might as well buy a Scott addict or something that weighs less. my fram is a $4k frameset, buil tto be moderately light but very aero. a non aero fork is not acceptable.
sometimes these bike companies dance too much. then they piss off customers who take their entire teams onto other bikes.
heck, i have a number of TT wins on my p3c for 2 years. i just ordered an Argon E-114.

am i mistaken, but hasnt cervelo sat on their laurels a bit the last 3 years? i mean, what major changes have they introduced, innovated on that p3c, slc?
sorry for the rant. i guess that comes when you have concerns about your steerer snapping.

I hear you on the aero part, which is why I thought about the CL. But Hincapies alloy steerer failure as well on a lightweight fork ... Back to the confidence issue bombing down hills at 45+ mph. My LBS tried to find a Reynolds Aero (discontinued and deemed UCI illegal I think because of the width), but couldn't. I use this bike as my main trainer and for road racing, so aero isn't as much of a concern in the pack. I have a separate dedicated tri/TT bike.

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Happy you're ok, that could have gone horribly pear shaped. I took my Alpha Q off my Soloist Carbon about a year ago. I had problems with the insert coming unbonded when preloading the headset (prob due to the humidity in Singapore?). When I took it out, saw that the compression ring had rubbed a very light indentation in the steerer. Given the thin walls, decided to junk the fork - I had always been a bit uncomfortable about the super thin steerer anyways. Have been riding the old no-name fork from my crashed R2.5 for over a year now. I went through the scary-light phase of mt biking in the early 90s when I was running a shop, taught me that 100g is not worth losing your teeth or life. You've motivated me to order a new fork for my Soloist today and I've been going through the same though process on the Easton and the CL. How do you like the Reynolds? Does it integrate well with the Soloist head tube?
Thanks
J

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"Oh man, it's going to take days to kill all these people!" - Jens Voigt

"Does it integrate well with the Soloist head tube"

It is OK. Not as "sleek" since the SLC head tube is so narrow, so you see a little "shoulder" at the interface, but only because I (and you) would likely be looking for it. I haven't had any chance to ride it yet extensively, but I felt the Wolf was pretty stiff, so I don't think there will be any noticeable difference in ride quality or handling (except the new confidence of the rider!)

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?