I agree with you about the stress at the point where the fork leaves the frame at the top ofthe headset. Don't you also have a point of stress at the bottom of the stem? I would think with no spacers, these two points are pretty much together. By having some spacers, don't you have a length of steerer tube between these two points that spreads the flex over a greater area making it less likely to snap? Again, I'm not saying this is the case...I'm just asking if this makes sense or not.

Greg.

The fork does not exit the frame per se. The fork exits at the bearing. The top bearing supports the load of the fork, as well as centers the fork in the head tube. As I think we all know, the more surface area, and or more area this aluminum core covers, the stronger the system AS LONG AS the additional support is in the same area as the stress.

From what I can find...it seems to me that the intent of this sleeve was to go in the steerer at the place from the bottom of the stem, and below the top bearing of he headset. I am no engineer but can see how that would assist in preventing such a failure. Fact is for all the stress we put on this tube we have a very small contact patch of support at the top bearing (1/8 - 1/4"). Seems to me to be a perfect place to be the fulcrum of a failure...and would seem that the top of the HS was infact where this fracture occured.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I don't know if that was the intent as True Temper's instructions does not say the insert has to go that deep.

Rod, glad you're ok! I read somewhere about a minimum 5mm spacer so I keep that on mine. Probably a disconcerting experience.

Hope you get right back on the horse!

Dan
www.aiatriathlon.com

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http://www.aiatriathlon.com

Chiming in late, but of all people on ST, very glad to hear you weren't hurt!

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If it's a YMCA pool, the lightning wanders around the locker room naked for an hour, then uses the blow dryer on its junk. -lunchbox

You are most correct in your assumptions. The steerer tube did indeed fail right where the aluminum sleeve ended (perfect stress point).

When I say I run no spacers though, I mean ON TOP of the already supplied tall 25mm FSA IS2 top cap. So, the bottom of the stem and the upper headset are at least that far apart, so two "different" stress areas. I also had a small 3mm spacer on top of my stem to reduce stress from the top cap as I was told as well. All OK and per instructions (or so I thought).

The issue with my fork failure, it appears, is that the aluminum insert did NOT extend past the upper headset. In fact, it stopped right on it (worse case scenario). Since I had an *early* SLC, the sleeves were only 75mm and came separate and it was up to the LBS to epoxy it in, install the star nut, etc. Since Cervelo rec 80mm min above the headtube, how was this all supposed to work? You can see the issues here. So, later, Cervelo started shipping their SL forks with a new, longer 125mm sleeve already glued in! The real issue is that that are likely hundreds of people with forks like mine and they have not been contacted, despite them supposedly knowing about this issue. That is NOT cool. At least Reynolds did the right thing recalling their fork when they discovered the problem. True Temper or Cervelo or whoever just figured out a fix (a good thing) and sent it off to their dealers with new instructions, but nothing about the other forks? Hmmm ...

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

This really pisses me off and worries me. I carefully read all of the install directions for the Wolf SL fork on my R3 and discussed with the shop who built my bike. They built it to those specs. Now, according to Cervelo, the specs have changed and I know I am not within those specs as I was relatively close to the upper end of the old specs (which still wasn't very high, a couple small spacers and the top cap).

I am going to go to the shop who built the bike and see what they say. Honestly, if they say they'll trade me my SL for a CL I would do it in a heartbeat. But...if they don't do that, I don't want to spend $300 for a fork on a bike I already paid $2,600 for...

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Portside Athletics Blog

My experience withe the Alpha Q Pro fork was a poor installation caused by a LBS.

He installed the insert and then cut the steerer! Of course he denied that he installed it correctly. I emailed True Temper about the installation to ensure that it was safe and this is my question and this is their reply.

Question:
"I purchased the carbon for steerer version of the Alpha Q fork. I had a bike mechanic cut and install the fork and I’m concerned about the installation. The aluminum insert was cut as far as the bottom of the stem so that the stem is clamping to the aluminum insert. It doesn’t go down to the top of the headset.

Is this an issue? How far does the insert have to go down the steerer."

True Temper Answer:
"The longer the insert, the stronger the fork will be.

The most important thing is that the insert is supporting the area where the stem is clamping.

If the insert does not extend past the bearings, you will not see as much stiffness benefit. The fork is still safe to ride, just not as stiff in bending as it could be. It is a small difference.

Which fork model do you have?"


Bert Hull

Product Manager

True Temper Sports

(901) 746-2064

Well, I wanted to be on the safe side and purchased a new Alpha Q fork and per their included instructions did the install myself because I didn't trust an LBS to do it right. True Temper did an inadequate job of releasing this fork. They should have done a better job to ensure that it would be properly installed.

Well that is just crap. My stem was entirely clamped on the steerer tube AND underlying aluminum insert. Didn't help a bit. It failed just BELOW this insert right where the fulcrum would be (at the top of the headset). But, I'm definitely no materials engineer, but from their 180 degree approach and my n=1 fork failure, I'd say the week link is here, not the clamping of the stem on the steerer tube.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

"The real issue is that that are likely hundreds of people with forks like mine and they have not been contacted, despite them supposedly knowing about this issue."

Bingo. My tort and products liability law is very rusty, but I think that there is a real mess in the making for Cervelo, True Temper and many LBS. The fact is that many Wolf SL forks supplied on Cervelo forks were installed incorrectly and all three entities knew about the problem. The blame game has been very interesting to watch and I am **dying** to know how your situation turns out. For a point of reference, check out both the Cervelo forum (bike photo thread) and Competitive Cyclist's gallery and try to count how many Wolf SL forks are installed correctly- its much easier to count them as there are fewer done right than wrong. If you use the supplied top cap (15mm), a 40mm stem (normal), and one 10mm spacer, then you are tapped out (as Cervelo actually recommended...before they changed it back to 70mm total stack height above the frame). Any Wolf SL fork with more than that 10mm spacer is not safe per Cervelo's own warnings!! Here's an even funnier question: Do you think that Cervelo took the time to contact any of the posters on their own website forum to warn them of the danger they were potentially facing?

Shame on Cervelo, shame on True Temper, and shame on you LBS who let cyclists walk out of your stores riding bikes that are unsafe and then do nothing to proactively contact customers once you learn of the potential problem.

"Honestly, if they say they'll trade me my SL for a CL I would do it in a heartbeat."

Really? If that is the case, then come on over to my house and I'll swap out all of my Ultegra parts for your Dura Ace and we can make any other trades you want!! :)

You paid for a $500.00 fork ($475.00 new @ Excel) and I am sure that you didn't ask for the "faulty installation discount" deal. Cervelo, True Temper, your LBS (pick one I guess) owes you either $500.00 or a new, properly installed mind you, Wolf SL fork. If you decide you want a Wolf SL fork, I have a brand new, uncut, unglued fork that you can pick up for FAR less than retail . :)

Don't let these guys off the hook by getting an inferior (or at least less expensive) replacement. And spread the word to your buddies and the shop...

Rod... 1) I'm glad you're OK. 2) You are one hell of a good sport. I would be absolutely FURIOUS over this. I don't care if my gear gets busted up, but any road rash because of a failure like that and I'm calling OJ's (remaining) lawyers.

I run one of those forks on my P2C I bought early last year....

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

This SL fork issue is a cluster and I have gone back and forth with them since first reading about in on their forum - my authorized Cervelo bike shop doesn't know anything about it. I have a 2006 R3 with about 75mm above the frame including top cap, spacers, and stem. It sounds like the insert should be installed below the top bearing which means I can't have mine installed correctly. Does anyone know if it is possible to retrofit a 125mm insert or does the fork just have to be scrapped? I really like the fork but may go with a CL instead of spending $475 more for a new SL.

Kindly forgive my late chime in. Some of this may have been said.

First, glad you're ok. I have an Alpha Q on my tandem and its insert comes to the headset top bearing, but barely. Since the bike get light use, I'm only a little worried.

Hincapie's fork had an aluminum steerer. It had been damaged by a prior crash. The important thing to note is that after a crash, we need to really check what needs replacing and what doesn't. I had a hard crash. My Zipp Contour showed not scratches, but there were some scraped on the bar tape. I can't remember who I spoke to at Zipop, but his comment was that there could be stress risers that wouldn't be visible. I replaced the bar.

Just my .02. Hope it helped.

sorry if i missed it, but how is the frame in all this? Are you still going to ride it? It must have taken a bit of a knock when you fell, how do you know that it is ok?

I don't. But there is hardly a scratch on it and I checked it over pretty carefully. I was just getting going from a dead stop through an intersection, so not a hard crash (thankfully) at all. I'm taking the whole thing in to my LBS/Cervelo dealer though for sure!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

"The initial question above, begs another question: if a notice went to dealers and customers telling them to check the forks, who pays for the fix if the fork is installed incorrectly?"

Your question is a good one, but presupposes information that is just flat out not true. What I consider to be the biggest failure in this whole situation is that Cervelo did not send out a notice to customers. Whether or not dealers received the notice is another question that I am not prepared to answer because I just don't know. I do know, however, that many (read: most if not all) Cervelo dealers did not notify customers once they did become aware of the problem. Affected Cervelo owners only found out about the Wolf SL fork problems after reading forums such as this one. I know for a fact that some Cervelo dealers did not notify customers even after other customers brought the problem to their attention.

Who knows who is more at fault for the improper fork installation. The fact that the problem is not isolated to a particular bike shop suggests that there may be plenty of blame to share. It is without question, however, that Cervelo, True Temper and Cervelo LBS failed in what I believe is their ultimate responsibily: putting cyclist on safe equipment.

Too bad alum steerers are getting so hard to find. I have never seen that type of failure on an alum steerer tube. I have seen em break right at the crown. That is why on my crossbikes I run alum steerers. I have a couple all carbon road forks, but not too trusting of them.

my first ever piece of carbon was a fork with a alum steerer,guess how long before it went bad? They fail also

RRoof,
Can you confirm if your LBS installed the insert into the steerer and then did the cut? Based on True Tempers FAQ, after the install only 2cm can be cut (see below).

Q: Can I resize my carbon steerer fork after the insert has been installed?
A: Yes, you can remove up to 2 cm of steerer after the installation of the insert.

Could it be that the failure wasn't because the insert wasn't below the top headset bearing but there was too much of a reduction of the insert?

Reading True Tempers instructions, it seems it is ok to have the insert above the headset bearing as long as there is no more than 4cm of spacers below the stem and that there is no more than a total of 8cm of stack height.

What is troublesome is that Cervelo is contradicting the manufacture's instructions.

Yes, True Tempers instructions and Cervelo's instruction contradict (well, they do now anyway).

I think my LBS followed True Temper's instructions well. Funny thing is before I even got a chance to call them, the owner saw this thread! He called me at work today and I've spoke to him. Excellent shop and I'm confident he is concerned as well and will make things right. I'm on my 2nd bike from them (prior Guru) and will continue to go there.

Again, my concerne is for the lack of continuity between Cervelo, True Temper, and most important, the riders!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

I have a feeling there are a few folks out there who are going to want to talk to you and be sure that you are quite happy with the solution to this little mess....


What is "pain and suffering" worth? $14million jer honor!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

that bike shop is top notch and is really great they called.

"The initial question above, begs another question: if a notice went [should have written what I meant: "was or will be sent"] to dealers and customers telling them to check the forks, who pays for the fix if the fork is installed incorrectly?"

Your question is a good one, but presupposes information that is just flat out not true. What I consider to be the biggest failure in this whole situation is that Cervelo did not send out a notice to customers. Whether or not dealers received the notice is another question that I am not prepared to answer because I just don't know. I do know, however, that many (read: most if not all) Cervelo dealers did not notify customers once they did become aware of the problem. Affected Cervelo owners only found out about the Wolf SL fork problems after reading forums such as this one. I know for a fact that some Cervelo dealers did not notify customers even after other customers brought the problem to their attention. Maybe Cervelo is handling through their website forum??? LOL. Read through that earlier. Certainly not indicative of their usual standard of communication and marketing. Where is Gerard? Who's minding the store?

Who knows who is more at fault for the improper fork installation. The fact that the problem is not isolated to a particular bike shop suggests that there may be plenty of blame to share. It is without question, however, that Cervelo, True Temper and Cervelo LBS failed in what I believe is their ultimate responsibily: putting cyclist on safe equipment.

Shifting the subject somewhat, while Cervelo touts the fact that CSC rides the same bikes as sold to public, I have to wonder how many of Cervelo's customers are really capable of riding with the amount of handlebar drop intended for those bikes. While rroof is, I'd guess that most are not.
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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev