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Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9)
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Hello fellow triathletes.

I have been offered af pair of zipp wheels (808 front and Sub 9 rear) pretty cheap, but there is a little damage on the disc as the picture shows.. The seller claims that it has been repaired by Carbon Sport in Germany, but isn't it normally that way that when af Carbon wheel is repaired, it wouldnt be possible to notice it?



Would you risk buying it or not? Whats you're opinion?

Thanks for your time :)

Morten Falk Størling
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Last edited by: MortenFalk: Apr 11, 14 12:54
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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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From one picture and not being able to see the actual article, the damage appears non-trivial. To achieve the curvature seen (or apparent) in that image, the wheel would have to undergo a non-trivial trauma incident. Furthermore, noting the diagonal color shift in the wheel - indicating a different ply of carbon - it does not appear there was any repair performed on the wheel from the outside. I am not aware of a way to repair a disk from the inside - this is not saying it cannot be done, I just don't know that it can be done.

So what does all this really mean?
From this one picture - notice I keep mentioning this? It's important to note that in a damaged composite, typically one image is never enough to assess the extent of damage - it appears that the wheel has undergone a non-trivial trauma and has not been repaired from the outside of the wheel. The other side of the coin... When something is damaged, it does not always have to be repaired to be serviceable. In the world of 18-spoke wheels (or even less), a mar on a section of a full carbon disk could still be at least as strong as some lightweight wheels. Again, I'm not saying it is - it'd take knowing the loads and lamination schedule of the wheel, as well as an inspection and damage knockdown assumption of this wheel to make that claim - but if you consider the strength and stiffness of thin metal spokes covering a relatively small radial area compared to a thin composite covering the full radial area, it would appear the concern is unfounded.

Call Zipp/SRAM and ask them if they would warranty the wheel. If they have skin in the game, they'd be less likely, IMO, to suggest replacement. At the same time, there is a lot more to Zipp's position on a warranty claim than just the damage. Actually, the dialogue between the customer and the OEM in aerospace is something that I love - citing this example as evidence to the contrary - compared to the bicycle industry; do you think calling Zipp will get the attention of an engineer? Conversely, if you damaged [a product from the company I work for], in a matter of hours/days your damage assessment request would come to my desk and, as directed/tasked, would be my highest priority until resolved.
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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [Shinny] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you very much for your reply.

Another picture of the damage (or the whole wheel) is this:



Well, I got this wheelset offered pretty cheap (about 1350 dollars) witch is only 1/3 of the price of a brand new set. Thats why I'm willing to take a little risk of buying it. My problem is that the seller claims the disc has been repaired, but when looking at the pictures, it doesn't look like it has.

Now I have contacted a local company that repairs carbon objects like frames, wheels and boats, and I will take it from there. If they say it can be repaired so it won't have any visible and unvisible damages, I will go with the wheelset. :)

Morten Falk Størling
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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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I would more care of invisible damage. There is a guy in the south of Germany where I've seen great results repairing carbon. Let me know if that's an option too and I'll find out the name for you.
Kinda strange that some other here posted identical damage.

-shoki
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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [shoki] [ In reply to ]
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Technically, it might be possible to repair that damage, but having worked on many, many of these, and having designed that specific wheel, I would advise great caution. Generally small dents and dings can be repaired very easily , but linear damage like that, so close to the hub will be quite hard to repair as the skins are very, very thin, and the failure mode will be in compression. If it were purely a tensile load, the repair would be pretty simple, but that close to the hub, the compression loading during cornering can be quite high.
If you do repair it, let us know how it goes!

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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you alle very much for your answers. I have chosen not to buy the wheelset because I can't trust a seller that claims that it is repaired when it's obviously not. The guy can't even find a receipt or an invoice on the repairing, so I'm sure it will be best not to buy it. If he lies about the repairing, maybe he's also lying about how hard it's damaged.

Again, thank you very much for your time :)

Morten Falk Størling
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Re: Will this damage be go or no-go (zipp Sub 9) [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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Good call.

-shoki
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