You're probably better off running a 23 up front. In my experience, it will handle better and that rim will be better when paired with a 23. Anyway, it definitely won't be a problem.

22mm Schwalbe Ironman upfront will probably be the fastest tire up front. Honestly, it would be a good choice for the rear as well.

On the wide rims, a 23 is nearly as good aerodynamically except at 0 yaw, but at low yaw you are often splitting hairs anyway, even a disc saves you little at low yaw. A wider tire rolls better, handles better and rides better.

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All true but the Schwalbe Ironman is super fast from a Crr standpoint and, in my experience, has excellent flat protection for such a fast tire.

IMO, for a tubular race tire, it's tough to beat unless you go up to 24mm at which point I'd eye the new Specialized SWorks Turbo for the rear.

Does the Schwable handle very well? I thought about riding them for road racing and crits, but I didn't know if they use a harder compound for a lower Crr.

I wouldn't say it's "harder" by any means. To the touch (totally subjective) it feels slightly softer than a GP4000s. That said I never had cause to test the handling limits of the tire: just rode it in a few Olys and one 70.3. With that said, in a road racing scenario I'd probably want something wider like the above-mentioned Specialized tire. Whatever aero penalty you suffer will probably be more-than compensated for by its handling. Crr between the two should be close enough to not sweat it. If you run clinchers you can use the Specialized Turbo Cotton which is, apparently, very fast and very grippy.

sounds like you have the original tangente tires. I wouldn't use those at all.

if the tire is a bit big on the rear, and you have a modern tt frame that shields the rear wheel, it makes almost no difference.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yes, still going strong since 2009! The front still has loads of tread on it. You seem to be inferring it's a bad tyre? Are the newer ones that much better, as I thought the original was basically a Corsa Evo with thicker tread/rubber?

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29 years and counting

The old Tangente requires about 11-12 watts more per pair (Wow!) than the Schwalbe Ironman 22mm or the new Tangente SLSpeed 24mm. Here's data from Tom Anhalt's site:

Zipp Tangente SLSpeed 27C Tubular = .0028, 26W for pair @ 40kph, width = 26.8mm
Zipp Tangente SLSpeed 24C Tubular = .0032, 29W for pair @ 40kph, width = 23.5mm
Schwalbe IronMan Tubular 22C = .0032, 30W for pair @ 40kph, width = 21.7mm
Old Zipp Tangente 23C Tubular = .0045, 41W for pair @ 40kph, width = 22.4mm


I picked up a couple of the new Tangente 24mm a few weeks ago and I have a Schwalbe Ironman on order for the front. I gotta say, I'm pretty psyched to be back on tubies!

Yes, many free watts to be had with new stuff.

Look into the new Tangentes of course, and also the Schwalbe Ironman tubular.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

like Jack has said, you're looking at the problem wrong.

your problem is: "what are the best tubulars for my wheels" and not necessarily "what is the best tire width for my wheels"

first of all, front tire. you want narrow AND fast rolling AND magic aero properties at yaw. There is only one at this point, Schwalbe IM Tubular 22mm, whose magic aero properties are assumed, not tested. But that said it's narrow and rolls very well, so two of three.

next rear. narrower is faster aerodynamically, but rolling resistance is a huge component, especially since your disc is shielded. You can't go wrong with another Schwalbe 22mm tubular, but you might even consider a wider, faster rolling tire, like the new tubulars from Zipp. Their 27mm tubular is VERY fast, and likely mates very well to a Super9 disc, which you don't have.

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Thanks guys. I guess it's a toss-up between the Schwalbe Ironman and the 24mm SL Speeds.

It's interesting to note that the newer Zipp SLS is as fast or faster than the previous Tangente, even without those amazing dimples :)

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29 years and counting

the dimples weren't a bad idea, there is some magic that happens with a texture on the side of the tire.

which is probably the purpose of the grooves on the new tire:

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

not a toss-up for the front wheel. Schwalbe 22mm. Not until we get some aero data from Zipp at least.

for the rear I'd go 24mm tubular unless you get a Super9 (or other wide-rim) disc and then I'd go 27, which is the fastest tire out there in terms of Crr.

I'm trying to come up with a rule of thumb for drag per mm of tire width, sort of percolating some of Andy Coggan's "a, b, c" tire work and a few Zipp/Continental and FLO charts I've seen. I'm thinking it's 2 watts/mm of tire of aero drag. Based on Tom A's charts, I'd say that it's an equal amount of Crr, so there goes my rule of thumb ;)

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Yes, I read that the original Tangente 21mm tyre was a good (aero) choice for the FC rim. It just seems counter-intuitive that a tyre 4-5mm narrower than the rim would be faster, as it leaves a big 'lip' either side of the tyre where the air hits the brake-track. So is the principle (presumably) that a wider front tyre will shunt the air wide of the rim, which will create more turbulence than if it is 'guided' by the FC rim profile?

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29 years and counting

It doesn't leave a lip
Or at least, the width of the tire has nothing to do with how much lip there is.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

What I was getting at, is that the narrower the tyre, the more rim you see with a FC. If you stuck a 22mm tyre on a 900 disc for example - you wouldn't see any rim, as it would be shielded by the tyre.

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29 years and counting

that is not necessarily a bad thing..............