Why do you assume WTC could charge $1k to race Kona and it fill?

That is what I'll argue. I dont see them charging $1k for just a Kona "race". Do I think the race could be filled. Sure...Do I think it will take less than $1k. Yes

Could it probaly fill up @$1k per person. Maybe, maybe not.

The other thread someone compared 7k people signing up to race in it. It's 96% due to the "WC" feel of the race. Kona is elevated in the lore of triathlon, but I think due it being the WC spotlight that it is now, I think any other "Kona" race would have a let down.

Again, maybe there are tons of triathletes that want to do Kona for Kona, but I think taking away alot of the lore and feel of Kona, thats just another IM event.

So in that event, why is a family/athlete going to spend $1k on race entry, flights+hotels+time off from work when there are other options.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I was actually just thinking that they should have a "normal" or "registered" race in Kona as well. I will say this. I have raced the 70.3 race in Hawaii and will race it again but it was not that crowded of a race. I loved the course, the weather, the people, etc. But I am not sure that they would get 2000 people to just sign up for a race there. Maybe they would. I konw I would jump at the chance. Really any reason to go to Kona is a good reason in my mind.

For one, I was only using the $1K as base mark. Some of it is because it is a roughly double the current fee, but some of it is based upon supply and demand. It is also because it is under the general price of Foundation Slots, which I have seen as high at $1300 and more. As well, for the 4 slots sold on eBay this year, the minimum bid was $10K.

Secondly. Kona is Kona. Some of the allure is it is the championship, but a great deal of the allure is it is a closed course and you have to qualify or luck into a slot. Over 7000 people plunk down between $40 - $90 to have a shot at 150 slots to 175 slots depending on whether they pony up the extra $50. I would love to know the percentage that pony up the extra $50 for the improved chances.

So to break down the math... and I will use the full $90... It really does not matter.

7000 entries at $90 = 630K. Number of slots = 200, which is $3150 per slot. Even if EVERYONE only pays $40, it is still over the $1K I was suggesting.

Likewise. There are people who have applied year after year and are never selected. Some have spent $500 and NEVER race. Offer them a chance to go... And they will.

For the WC feel of the course, it will always be a WC course. Whether the WC is there, or "It was the course that was the WC for 20+ years..." it is still the same.

Thirdly, if an IM even like LP sells out in an hour at $550, are you seriously trying to tell me that with a CHANCE to race KONA... THE KONA COURSE, people will not pile on for $1000 and GUARANTEE THE CHANCE.

It may not be the WC, but they get to say they RACED THE KONA COURSE. THEY did the Queen K, etc... It does not matter that it was 2011 or 2002... It is still KONA.

Hell, people volunteer and spend more the $500 between travel and lodging to get a chance to make it into IMLP, so in the end their real cost is not only over $1K, but a weekend or more of their time...

Not there may not be 1800 people willing to do this, but just sure as &*(&)( as someone will pay $10K for Super Bowl tickets, there would be more then enough demand to sell out Kona as a Non-Championship race for years and years.

If they did add a second "recreational race" it would sell out in seconds.
I can't tell you how many people say "Oh Ironman? Are you doing that one in Hawaii?" Most people don't even know that there are IM races all over the country/world.
Most people that watch the NBC broadcast in December don't even understand what "World Championship" means. They have no idea that you have to qualify of luck into it. They see some guy/girl who has overcome immense obstacles to finish under 17 hours and they think they can also do Kona.
You would probably have more DNF's / rescues than any other IM race in the world.

With that being said, I would probably sign up for it. Wifey would be much happier lugging the family to Hawaii for a vacation with a race thrown in than she would driving 6 hours to AZ to watch me run around the desert in bike shorts.

Yes, I would race a non-world championship Kona IM. I also think it is a hell of an idea.

Being realistic, at this point in time I do not see myself having the necessary motivation to train as hard as I need to in order to qualify for Kona giving my current abilities and experience in the sport. For this reason, I am not interested in racing the Kona World Championships.

In my mind, this specific race holds little appeal to me if I did not actually qualify to race there. The course itself, however, holds a great deal of appeal. I would love to do the Kona IM course. I just am not interested in racing the world championship Kona IM if I did not qualify.

Good thinking - I could sell this idea to my wife in a heartbeat. We've been bringing a kayak to my races this year, so that she can volunteer for water safety. She gets bored if there aren't enough people to rescue. She'd love a tropical vacation where she could happily spend a few hours keeping people from drowning.

(BTW, her tally this summer was 3 assists for the Timberman Sprint, 7 for the main event at Timberman, 2 at the Pumpkinman Sprint, and nobody for the Pumpkinman Half.)

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Over 4.5 years bike crash free.

For brands there's always a tradeoff between short-term profit maximization and brand dilution. Harvard gets 10 applicants for every slot so in theory they could easily increase their prices 50% and double their campus size....but they don't because part of the desirability of the degree is its scarcity/exclusivity. Kona is the same way; WTC will probably want to keep its exclusivity (raise rates only if the quality of the contenders won't suffer) and use the other IM events to soak up the excess demand.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

An everyman's IM race in Kona for $1K would sell out in seconds. Anyone who doesn't think so is in IM/WTC denial. I would give it ten years before registration would stay open for ten minutes.

If that were the case, than I have no doubt that WTC would have this as a 2nd race. So maybe WTC is in denial of itself.

Edit: Titanflex's explanation is pretty good of why there may not be a 2nd Kona spot.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

i'd be in too!

hey is it even possible to have a nonbranded "ironman" do the same course.

Can you have a patent on a course?

Rev3 should go do that course and i'd sign up for that too.

Ironman Revisited:


http://www.challengedathletes.org/...te/Ironman_Intro.htm

For me, its not about the Kona course. Its about what the race means. I would never consider paying extra (or paying at all) just to say I raced on the course. Who cares about that? The course is only special on the day that the world championships are being raced. Any other day its just another nice venue, IMO. Participating in any subsequent event would ironically cheapen the experience for me, why pay more...

I'd do it, not only for it being Kona, but it would be a location my wife would actually want me to go, instead of a location that has nothing for the spouses.

Personally, I think they should have the 70.3 champs there as well. Clearwater will never have the prestige of Kona.

You're saying this about a company that happily sells it's brand (the IM logo) to slap on hundreds of crappy products...

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Brilliant!

How about a Sat/Sun race weekend....Only have to set up once, and double the number who experience the course. I've done it 5 times and would still pay $1000 to do it. Limit the field to 2000 and you have another $2m in revenue. Then donate a large share of the profit to the community and all is good. I'm in!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Remember the Ironman bike by Huffy?

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"Can’t I just start alone? I don’t need a team. All I need is a mechanic and a car!"-Jens Voight http://velonews.competitor.com/...lgem-and-more_108891 "

If the local tourism could handle that many more people that would be ideal. You would still get the WC feel.

Well we just disagree.

In my eyes the course is special because of the location and the history. Just because a championship takes place, for most is inconsequential, especially if you are NOT A PRO and INELIGIBLE for the prizes. The fact that you start later and don't toe the line is statement enough there.

A similar analogy is getting to play Augusta for golfers. You may not be in the Masters, but most golfers would give their left nut to play the legendary course.

For the record, I am happy with the way things are, but I also view the WTC as being in it more for the money than anything else, so hearing about them moving the Championship because of getting money would not surprise me. The whole idea of them then opening up Kona and charging more is purely my view of how I see them as an organization and what I view they are capable of doing.

Liked the earlier iteration better...Dave Scott actually rode it in Kona.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I saw one of those Centurions when I was out in Carlsbad, CA a couple of weeks ago. Old school dude...old school bike. I had one and wish I still did...just for the nostalgic factor.

There are other companies who've licensed IM for their bikes...Kestrel and Cannondale come immediately to mind. I guess Ceepo is the current...but uggh...

Do you guys think the big island and its residents would tolerate having it's major freeway shut down for an additional day? I already hear stories of the locals getting "huffy" about the current race.

Perhaps the reason there's only one Kona race is that's all Hawaii will allow.

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Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

Are you saying that Harvard does not have a cologne from Avon?

x2

Part of the allure of a Kona "dream" is what helps many of the other races sell out. Also as pointed out, Kona is what it is largely because it is the world championship race. In my view, if it is not the championship race, it is no more intriguing than any of a number of other courses.

I think the "demand" demonstrated by the number of lottery entries would only represent a backlog of 2-3 demand if there were 1500 - 2000 open spots available. Kona is a very expensive destination, the heat can very difficult and people are not going to do it multiple times.

so they dont do the second race every year . every 2 ,3 or 5 years.
Thom

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