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Why am I afraid of tubulars?

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dexterbase

Apr 12, 12 10:32

Post #1 of 56 (2912 views)

Why am I afraid of tubulars?	Quote \| Reply

The general consensus seems to be that they are faster. Are they?

I see tons of used tubular wheelsets in various classifieds. I've been looking for clinchers, I guess because I don't know anything about tubular tires.

Should I be apprehensive about switching to tubular tires?

What are the pros/cons? I have yet to flat in a race (but have on training rides) and I think a large part of my concern revolves around that. What the hell do I do about a flat? Is it something I can fix and get back in the race? It it a better tool for sprints and olympic distance races where a flat = race is over / fix tire / limp back to transition?

How and why did you switch to tubulars? Were you freaked out at first?

styrrell

Apr 12, 12 10:53

Post #2 of 56 (2873 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tubulars aren't intrinsically faster or slower than clinchers. Which is faster will depend on the wheel, the tire and the application, with lots of overlap and lots of hair splitting.

To my way of thinking tubulars are a good choice for short events where you want to get every second out of your performance, have a big budget and don't mind the inconveniences of tubulars. If you aren't ticking all those boxes go clincher.
Styrrell

paxfobiscum

Apr 12, 12 10:56

Post #3 of 56 (2863 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Look here, all your questions are secondary because you failed to ask the first and most important one: Are you willing to spend $100 to $125 each time you get a flat? That is more expensive than flatting on a car tire. If you are willing to spend that amount then go ask all your questions again. If you are not willing... then FUGGEDABOWTIT !

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ryans

Apr 12, 12 11:08

Post #4 of 56 (2828 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [styrrell] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

As a recent convert to clincher race wheels from ten years of tubulars (triathlon races only...) I can echo a desire for clinchers.

I did not "fear" tubulars, but as the previous poster said, I grew tired of dealing with the inconvenience of tubular glueing (to each their own but glueing a tubular was not a personal favorite maintenance activity for me). I want my wheel/tire interface to be good and fast. Tubulars and clinchers both accomplish this. With tubulars I needed to take a couple of days to put a new tire on my wheel. If I flatted or noticed a nick in a tire shortly before a race, it was a scramble to get it ready to go. Note, I am not making a living at triathlon so I am not trying to find every possible second. I would also fix a flat in a race and finish since I am only doing this for fun. So the best clincher tires (with latex tubes) and the best tubular tires were close enough in overall performance for me to consider it a wash. Someone faster or making a living from this might have a slightly different view of this.

With my recent switch to clincher race tires I do not expect to see a difference in performance based on the tubular/clincher change. I do expect a small improvement in my race tire prep year in year out as I am confident it will take me less time to remove an old race tire and install a new one when the time comes.

A small side benefit is my old race tires will be able to serve as training tires since my training wheels are all clincher...
Ryan
http://trinorthmn.blogspot.com/

kjmcawesome

Apr 12, 12 11:18

Post #5 of 56 (2798 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [styrrell] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My switch to tubulars for race wheels was due to a small budget vs a big one. Sure anyone can go buy some Firecrest 808 Clinchers, but that sounds expensive. I picked up an older 404 front and 900 Disc rear used for $1000. I have had a couple of flats, but fixed them with a can of Pittstop or replaced the tubular on the road (training ride).

Even in for a few extra tubbies and a couple cans of Pittstop (only used one so far), I'm still ahead - err... behind?? - $$wise.

One more thing to note is that while new clinchers and tubulars are pretty similar in price, used tubulars seem to be available at a pretty steep discount - I'm guessing because you used to have to get tubulars to get the best wheels and now they are "upgrading" to clinchers.

My point is not that Tubulars are better (although I do loveLOVE riding Vittoria EVO CX tires), but if you are in the market for some fast non-new wheels, you can probably have them for cheaper - even w/ replacing a few $100 tires.

YMMV,
KJ
/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Shoopdawoop

Apr 12, 12 11:19

Post #6 of 56 (2797 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [paxfobiscum] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Pros:
No pinch flats
Light wheels
Some say the ride and cornering is better
You can ride a flat tub if you are close to the end of a race or transition
You get to act like an ass and scoff at people who don't ride tubies (not sure how to do pink on an iPhone)

Cons:
More complicated initial set up
More expensive flats (though you can have them fixed sometimes)
Can be difficult to change quickly if glued correctly

Dig It Tri

Apr 12, 12 16:37

Post #7 of 56 (2599 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I like tubulars and got my first pair for the reasons you noted -- used race wheels seemed cheaper if tubular. The cost does need to include the set of tires that do costs upwards of 100 per tire. That said, I've used them for over 10 years and only flatted once when I went through a huge hole that I should have seen ahead of time. I don't think one needs to fear them, they do take work to glue properly but it's not that hard
Jason
Dig It Triathlon and Multisport
http://www.digittri.com

Half Fast

Apr 12, 12 16:39

Post #8 of 56 (2595 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

http://youtu.be/2iqwARP2BvQ

Brushman

Apr 12, 12 16:56

Post #9 of 56 (2571 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tubular experience, for better or worse, seems to a "right of passage" into serious cycling lore.

Your questions and curiosity are understandable. Whether you stay with tubulars or not....research, buy a set, and glue on some tires (following traditional well-planned procedure). Once done, your fear will vanish, you'll be proud of yourself (and your bike), and you'll have a much better appreciation for both bicycling heritage and modern technology.

I say go for it and have fun.

Add: I ride both tubies and clinchers, and find gluing tubies a somewhat zen-like experience. ;-) -- (maybe it's the glue...)

(This post was edited by Brushman on Apr 12, 12 17:08)

AaronT

Apr 12, 12 17:10

Post #10 of 56 (2539 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

dexterbase wrote:

Why am I afraid of tubulars?

Because you are a scaredy cat?

dexterbase

Apr 12, 12 17:27

Post #11 of 56 (2511 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [AaronT] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

AaronT wrote:

dexterbase wrote:

Why am I afraid of tubulars?

Because you are a scaredy cat?

Totally :-)

btmoney

Apr 12, 12 17:33

Post #12 of 56 (2499 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [paxfobiscum] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

paxfobiscum wrote:

Look here, all your questions are secondary because you failed to ask the first and most important one: Are you willing to spend $100 to $125 each time you get a flat?

You are shopping in the wrong place. Vittoria CXs and Challenge Criterium tires can be had for <$65 (hint, order from europe!)
____________________________

paxfobiscum

Apr 12, 12 18:26

Post #13 of 56 (2446 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [btmoney] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Don't tell that to me... I'm already using tubulars (20 years) and I have my own source and willing to pay their prices.

Tell it to the OP who is scared.

Maybe he isn't even willing to pay $50 for a flat.

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.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...

nickwhite

Apr 12, 12 18:43

Post #14 of 56 (2407 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [Brushman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Quote:

modern technology

bwa ha ha ha ha ha!

Carbon Clinchers with Vittoria Open Tublar tires and Latex tubes are modern tech. Traditional tubulars that take glue, cost over $100 for flatting, and are just a general pain in the butt are NOT modern tech. They're about as old school as you can get.

My advice to the OP: run away from tubular tires.

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mike s

Apr 12, 12 18:45

Post #15 of 56 (2399 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [Brushman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I agree 100%....love to glue tubulars now...it is a wierd escape...makes me anxioius to ride them...just do it...i.am almost pure tubular now

jt10000

Apr 12, 12 18:52

Post #16 of 56 (2388 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [Shoopdawoop] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Shoopdawoop wrote:

This. I don't believe the better ride thing, but the rest is spot on.

http://www.jt10000.com/

simpy16

Apr 12, 12 19:07

Post #17 of 56 (2367 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

OK I will give you a run down of how I thought through this process the last couple of years and my reasoning for each move, this will not be advice that is economical in anyway and my end result is probably not what you are going to want to hear but I will share it anyway.

1. I started with basic clincher trainers and quickly decided that I NEEDED to have aero wheels so I went out and bought a set of 404 clinchers. I raced on them and thought they were great.

2. I started to get more serious about wanting to race triathlons and got carried away with "wanting to be pro/ weight weenie" with my first tri bike so I bought a set of 808 tubies with the idea that I would switch over to them because they are "so much lighter than their clincher brothers". I found out that tubular tires cost over $100 for good ones and that it take 3 days to mount them up. I quickly realized that I wasn't ready for them and sold them to then buy some 808 clinchers.

3. I raced my first 70.3 on my set of 808s in crazy wind and liked them but afterwards thought that the weight is what was holding me back and I thought the new Easton EC90TT wheels looked "cool".

4. I bought a set of EC90 aero and EC90 TT tubular wheels and sold my sets of 404 and 808 and was excited to finally feel "pro" rolling on my tubies and even more pro getting to learn how to glue them up and mount them on the wheel. I used Vittoria Evo Corsa tires and was rather pleased with them. I proceeded to race the remainder of that summer on those wheels BUT each time I swapped to my race wheels and went out on a short ride before the race I was scared that if I flatted I was going to be S.O.L and have to use a different wheel altogether as they wouldn't be ready in time. I also had a hard time at races while I was on the bike for fear that if I were to flat I had NO experience taking a tubular off a rim and wouldn't now where to start or how to get them off, fearing that I would have to just abandon the race. ( I am MOP at best and finishing still means something to me). Although I had this fear each and every time I was on the wheels I never flatted once.

5. The next season rolled around and I was preparing for my next 70.3 and again I started to get nervous that if I were to flat and my Pitstop didn't work I wouldn't be able to finish a race I paid over $250 to compete. I decided to cut my losses and bought a set of Zipp 808 FC CC to use for the race and still have them today, I also have a set of 404s that I use as everyday trainers for my SC right now and haven't had a problem at all with them.

I hate to say it but I think they are the best of both worlds. They are in-between on weight from their ALU clincher and tubular brothers. So much more peace of mind for when I do flat I know how to quickly change a tubular, I know that I don't have as much in spare tube cost as I did with even 1 spare tubular. I am not the best judge for some of the "feelings" when on the wheels but I would say that I could tell a little bit of a difference on spin up from the heavy alu 808s to the lightweight EC90's and I would put the 808CC somewhere between those if not closer the EC90s.

Like I said I spent a lot of time and money going back and forth on wheels but as it stands now I don't see changing from the carbon clinchers and defiantly don't see changing from the clinchers period, I like others have said just like to race and finish and fearing that I wouldn't be able to do that because I flatted and couldn't get my tire off just isn't something i am about right now.

For added material you can read on the main page of Slowtwitch about tire and see that even the author notes that even some pros both Tri and TTer and switching to latex tubes and fast clinchers, Tony Martin and Matty Reed both come to mind.

Good luck!
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Thomas Gerlach

Apr 12, 12 19:16

Post #18 of 56 (2345 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

What gave you the idea that the general consensus is that tubulars are faster? I don't think they slowed down Eneko at IMAZ last year, Kienle beat Armstrong's bike split at Galveston on clinchers, and Tony Martin rode to a world victory on them. Done right they are not going to slow you down, and are soo much easier to deal with.

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Thomas Gerlach

Apr 12, 12 19:18

Post #19 of 56 (2342 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [nickwhite] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Except that the Vittoria tire has been show to be a disaster in terms of aerodynamics. You would be better off with a Conti on the front.

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dexterbase

Apr 12, 12 19:25

Post #20 of 56 (2328 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [Thomas Gerlach] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thomas Gerlach wrote:

What gave you the idea that the general consensus is that tubulars are faster? ....

The number of professional triathletes on them as well as the faster age groupers in the races I've been in. I was under the impression that the pros would choose faster over slower.

I know I am not the only person who believes that the general consensus is that tubular tires are under the fastest athletes doing the fastest bike splits. I'm not saying tubular tires are faster, or that clinchers are slower, only that there appears to be a general consensus. I'm also not saying there aren't obvious exceptions to this impression.

Thomas Gerlach

Apr 12, 12 20:12

Post #21 of 56 (2278 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [dexterbase] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I gave you a list of pros that are/were using clinchers - they all had top bike splits and rode clinchers. I think in the future you will see the trend point back to clinchers. Keep in mind I see many pro triathletes that have super long aero-drink straws hanging up in the air, does that mean you should emulate them? Lastly Continental puts latex tubes in the tubulars of their athletes. This makes a big difference versus the Continental tubies that are available for public purchase so yes some might be using tubies but they are using tubies you can't purchase. I hope this helps.

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SavageHouck

Apr 12, 12 20:15

Post #22 of 56 (2273 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [nickwhite] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Is that true? Take Zipp for example, have they ever released a wheel for clincher before tubular? You can't get any of their fastest discs in clincher, but you can in tubular. I think you're right that we're moving that direction, but we're not there yet unfortunately. The fastest wheels are made in tubular, they're not always made in clincher.

mike s

Apr 12, 12 21:05

Post #23 of 56 (2226 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [simpy16] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Can anyone 100% validate that Tony Martin rode Jet clinchers and not Jet tubulars at the TT Worlds?

simpy16

Apr 12, 12 21:42

Post #24 of 56 (2189 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [mike s] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yeah Vince from HED can. It's even in there ad in the latest Triathlete.

simpy16

Apr 12, 12 21:46

Post #25 of 56 (2181 views)

Re: Why am I afraid of tubulars? [SavageHouck] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

They have the 900 in a clincher which will be about as good as you can get with the clearance issue some frames have. I think Rapp has said that it might be faster for some to use a 808 FC rear at times.

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