Fewer events offered

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

In North America, the modern triathlete does not know this yet, but a shift to shorter racing and more options for shorter racing will be a big help.

Triathletes in North America can't see this yet, as they are obsessed with Ironman, and we are still very early in transition with this, but it is coming.

In running - marathon numbers have been dropping, while everything 1/2 marathon on down is growing.

In cycling - 100mi/Century event numbers are dropping, while 50 mile or 100K (60 mile) rides/events are growing.

Triathlon will follow.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Hello ou8acracker2 and All,

Start them young ...

Our local public school kindergarten has tricycles for the kiddies ....

They are wheeling all over the play ground .....

(Stock photo)




Perhaps create a 'standard' division ... any swim suit, same bike and helmet (adjustable to different sizes and provided for race day), any shoes and run gear .... entry cost minimal ..... same location and race happens once a month ..... rain or shine .... reduced rate for yearly subscription .... locate races at Disneyland, Seaworld, Universal Studios, and other theme parks.


Create some entry level races using Citi Bikes and other bikeshare bikes ....

https://member.citibikenyc.com/map/

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

3 good entry level bikes at retail price:
Felt B series starts at $2000
QR Kilo is $1900
Cannondale Slice is $1950

I'm sure most people can get 10% off of that.

Ironman isn't going to lower their price but you don't have to do iroman races. People just choose to do them and there is no shortage of people wanting to do them. Most other companies that put on Ironman races get bought out or close from lack of participation.

Knock off tri clothing sucks but you can get a good pair of shorts like TYR competitor for $50 to $60 from swimoutlet.com all year long. I won't pay $100 for tri shorts. The only time I'll pay bigger dollars for tri gear is for racing stuff.

Also, what Fleck said

Spectators. Bring in eyeballs to the events, bring in more advertising money and sponsors, and the sport grows. But then we'd have the opposite issue; people complaining the triathlon became a business rather than sport. Some already think that's happening now with WTC.

Short course is a given. No one wants to watch one event for 8 hours.

Swim courses built like the rowing venues at the Olympics. A canal with bleachers set up for spectators.

Multi loop bike courses with many hot corners.

Gorgeous transition setup, and again spectator friendly, like what ITU does.

A few tight running loops around the spectators before the finish. Almost like a 400m track. Finish line could be placed inside a stadium but that'd be hard to setup logistically. Where could one find open water swimming, crit type bike course, and then a stadium nearby?

All of that requires money to setup, and requires extensive road closures and use permits, which again isn't forthcoming without the money brought in by having lots of spectators.

I'd add the Specialized Shiv Sport and Orbea Ordu M30, each available @ $2200 retail. Performance Bike always seems to have some flavor of Fuji Norcom on sale for ~$2000. Availability of "Entry Level" bikes isn't the issue. More of an issue is the perception that the entry level bikes are slow and not worth it; that you need the "super-ultra-mega-high modulus" frame with integrated front end, rolling on $3000 wheels, to be fast.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Triathlon's problem isn't athlete gear. It never has been. Perception that high end gear is needed? Maybe. That's reflected in the fact that many newbies come here asking what to purchase next for their 1st or 2nd season, instead of asking how to improve their training plans!

Wellington won Kona the 1st time on a P2. Naeth had problems with the race wheels once so she raced on a $300 alloy training wheel and still posted the fastest bike split. Etc....

If you got a road bike, or can borrow one? You can do a triathlon. Some sort of outfit, swim goggles, bike helmet, and shoes, can be had cheaply or they probably already own them.

Competitiveness?

I might be a tad salty on this after Ironman Louisville this weekend. I am a bit young (29) and have resources and desire to partake in competitve athletics still. This weekend I finished 3rd AG and 10th Amateur overall but no Kona spot as they are mostly allocated to the arbitrary older AGs.

There is also a lack of ability to compete at non IM branded events.

Going forward you have to ask why not move to pure cycling or running where the ability to compete at a high level isnt so heavily swayed on the number of 40-49 y.o who start? I can say there are many I train with on bike and run of similar age who ask this same question.

Granted this is deffenitelty a narrow view point of a younger ag who doesnt want to just "finish".

I don't see it. Those other sports are based on non-competitive or semi-competitive events. People are doing them for fun. They do them for fitness. They do them with friends.

Americans do triathlons as a challenge. They are looking to prove they have still got it. They are looking for something they can brag about to their co-workers, neighbors, and family. They need something the people they tell will instantly recognize. Short races don't fulfill that need.

There is no market for short triathlons except a small population of hardcore triathletes.

+1

Also, make qualifying a little different. Still have AG nationals with addition to a top tier AG race in which qualifying by top overall place at regional events rather than top AG place.

More draft legal races and a pipeline like cycling with categories so folks are in very comparable competition.

Better media coverage.

---

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

Money and elitismare the major stumbling blocks. Other recreational activities have a much lower cost of entry, more inclusive feel, and flat out more fun.

Way back in the day people raced (not participated...RACED) on road bikes with aerobarsor adapted road frames. Entry fees to local races were $30 to 60 bucks. My first full distance race cost 200 bucks. We slept in our cars or in tents near transition. Now that its all about IronMan; Its become airlines, bike shipping, $800.00 entry fees, hotels advised to set 4 night minimumsat $200.00 per night. With new gradssaddled with college debt and very few full time solid paying jobs for high school gradsthe income and time requirements no longer make the cost of triathlonviable.

I came into endurance sports via cycling. Entry fees were low and, believe it or not, we knew it was all about the motor and that a cheaper bike (even second hand) would suffice. The downside to cycling was the slower older crowd....they were just dicks. They, no matter how badly you schooled them on race day, looked down their noses at clothing and equipment. It seemed it was their goal to shun anyone without CampySuper Record. The teams that got the best deals were the old men with money and they just didn't give a rip about young talent. As a long time multisportstore owner I saw this happen to triathlon. As the price of admission went up so too did the price of gear. AND that increase was only exceeded by the level of self-obsessed40 year oldswith big billfolds, egos, and little chance of getting a place in their age group.

When something is perceived as too expensive and the crowd that surrounds the sport are less than welcoming, what do you do?Crossfit, Obstacle runs, color runs, zombieruns, beer.Let'sface it, these events are walk up and do. They do not require one to spend huge dollars to play.Yep, play. Look at the numbers, people think these things are fun. Does anyone else remember post race parties? Not today'swith one BSsponsor provided sports drink and slice of pizza (cold if you had a bad day) but the likes of Memphis in May BBQ, or the local race director who cooked burgerswhile we raced. Oh yeh...beer.Camaraderie. Stories about the chop on the water, the big effinghill, or how you grayed out just before you hurled on the person next to you. We've given that over to stale corporate America and other activities stepped in...fun activities.

The old triathlon was not crazy expensive and was way far fun. We loved the camping, the RACING, and the post race. The highest price paid was the willingness to turn yourself completely inside out to just get one more spot. We could give a rat's rump about some crappy trophy and would laughed at the thought of a finisher's medal. Killing it (no matter how you finished) was initiation to the tribe...and the tribe increased.

"There is no market for short triathlon..."
whaaaaaaaaaat?
Cite your source. Dare I say the typical North American ST'er.

---

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

I'd be pissed too if i'd finished 10th amateur OA out 2500 and didn't get a Kona slot. What do you mean though by "lack of ability to compete at non-IM branded events"??? Are you saying all non-IM events are not very competitive??? If so, are you winning all your local races OA??? Personally, I'd rather win all my local races than go to Kona, but that's just me and I'm mainly a sprint/Oly dist racer.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Random thoughts:
Sponsor Lance Armstrong to race tri's.
A-la cart distance tri's- 500m, 112 ride, 13.1 run; customize your challenge to suite your strengths (duathlons also).
Family tri's events similar to Bubble, Color, or other fun runs, families go off in waves or relays ( relay fees equivalent to general entry).
Finish lines in a stadium, similar to Pat Tillman run in AZ. Easier access to race venues due to closed streets.
Schwag, beer garden, kids garden, free food at finish for family and places to share war stories about how you got passed by 62 yr old beast in the run!
Better mainstream marketing to an active lifestyle, not just triathlete life or cross fit.
Beer commercials featuring Kona finish line footage!

What are you supposed to do once you have completed an Ironman?
Complete another?
Sure, non-athletes are impressed by Ironman completion.
But people are also impressed by photos of cute kittens!!


The next logical step after completing an Ironman is to try to get good at triathlon.

A decent local racing scene is where people go from high fiving the crowd after 14 hours of walk racing... to actually becoming a competitive athlete.

Yeah, it was a hard pill to swallow after roll down when reality set it.

The local scene is tough here in NJ and I like it. Never won a local race but I wouldnt complain given who Ive lost too, and thats the point.

Outside of Kona there isnt really another prestige Championship level event for Amateurs. Yes, we can debate about ITU worlds but really the talent is in Kona.

Local races are great and I support them. Would just be fun racing a field 500+ deep versus 5-6 deep. Wining always matters but I would also rather finish further down with a deep quality field.

To answer another question further up the thread about it just being for fun. Subjectively I don't feel thats the case. I dont have the data yet to back my claim but I may have to dig in to fill my own curisoity. Have you looked at cross fit and the cross fit games? They turn a fun group class into a competitve event driving brand awarness and engagement. Again subjetive opinon at this point.

This... I can't do a IM distance anyways because of my knee.... but I've been opting for the 70mile and less cycling rides lately. I'm back a hour+ earlier... fresher to enjoy whatever festivities..or just go back home to family. This is the first year I stopped doing the 100+ mile stuff and I like it.

Love it, Yes!

Triathlon has become a geezer participant show-off sport.
No community, and all the show hollow and fake.

That alone explains half the guys trending to shorter racing (or cutting the course, or supplementing)..

Because, let's be realistic: 35-55 don't do "color" or "fitness".

It is about their making a "statement", that they are "studs" and still 'young'.

Beginners new to the sport aren't aware that there is little difference in performance between a 10 year old P2 and a brand new $10k P5 or a 20 year old wetsuit and a $1000 Mav X or a wheelcover vs $3k disc. They think they need to spend $5k+ on a bike, when they don't. And I think this turns off a lot of people. They think they can't compete unless they spend thousands of dollars on gear so quit.

Regarding "it just being for fun", well, yes and no. Sure, I enjoy my workouts greatly but they are not "fun" in the sense of watching a funny movie. Anyone who is very competitive wants to do the very best they can, and going all out on the last mile of any race is not really all that pleasant/fun while you're doing it, though you do have a great feeling after you finish. To quote a couple of fellow swimmers in college who were a year ahead of me, they told me when i was just a freshman that swimming on the team was "just something to do." He said it very casually but obv there are lots of other less strenuous and more "fun" things you could do in college to take a break from studying all the time. However, he clearly thought it was the best way to spend most of his non-study time. I learned a lot from those guys. :)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I think it is more the being embarrassed to show up at a race with a road bike where all your AG 'friends' have the dough to 'look good being slow'.

After all, we live in a Society where Looks and Superficials (twitts, tweets and twats) drown out actual outcomes.

.

Bro.. Just wanted to say, ouch! 10th OA and no KQ... That's a punch in the nut sack, if ever there was one!

Well, it was Louisville after all.....
He should come out to the West Coast and see how he stack's up where the Music is actually playing.

Dave! Dave! Someone is talking bad about ITU in here.......