I had a well excuted training plan going to IM Florida 70.3. I averaged 18.5 hrs training per week for the 12 weeks leading up to the race. I spent a lot of time working on the bike (10-13 hrs per week). I did many 2-2.5 hrs rides at above 70.3 power and ran pretty well off of this. I never been fitter in my life going into the race. I don't have a power meter but I was using Trainer Road with my KK road machine. I realize its not accurate and can be way off so I decided to make the resistance harder to factor this in. I turned the resistance knob 5.5 turns and set my tires at 115psi. My power was 310 based on this. I was doing something right because my legs were getting more muscular from the increased biking with harder efforts than every before. However, the race didn't go as planned. A little background....I did a HIM on somewhat hilly course in August and my splits were 30 swim, 2:30 bike, 1:39 run. I did a marathon in October in 2:56. I pretty much started training for this race in November after recovering from the marathon. My IM Florida splits were 33 swim, 2:28 bike, and 1:37 run. I did all my training on a road bike on the trainer leading up since I live in a cold weather state. There was still snow on the ground when I left. And the race was the 1st time I road my tri bike since last september. It was really hot for me as well. I'm 6'2 180lbs. Would these factors be enough to slow me down? I was expecting 30-31 swim, 2:18-2:22 bike, and 1:30-1:32 run. I was pretty uncomfortable on the last half the ride since I wasn't used to being aero but not sure if this all adds up. Thoughts?
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Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Heat probably played a big part in the disappointing results, if you haven't trained in hot and humid conditions then your body will have problems cooling itself and will cause your body to work at a lower efficiency to keep your internal temperature down.
I am not a coach, doctor or sports medicine expert, but I have done a lot of cold and hot weather training and racing having lived in Wisconsin, Florida, Northern Virginia and now Alabama. My body has to aclimate to either cold or hot conditions in order for it to perform well, particularly with hot weather. In cases where I have not aclimated myself to hot conditionis, I have seen my 13.1 times go from an easy and relaxed 2:15 to a painful and cramping 2:40.
I am not a coach, doctor or sports medicine expert, but I have done a lot of cold and hot weather training and racing having lived in Wisconsin, Florida, Northern Virginia and now Alabama. My body has to aclimate to either cold or hot conditions in order for it to perform well, particularly with hot weather. In cases where I have not aclimated myself to hot conditionis, I have seen my 13.1 times go from an easy and relaxed 2:15 to a painful and cramping 2:40.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
I was under the impression that the knob on the kk has nothing to do with resistance.
Btw, if I had to take a guess I'd say heat and not riding your Tri bike in training both were factors.
Btw, if I had to take a guess I'd say heat and not riding your Tri bike in training both were factors.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Heat can be immensely hard if you're not well adapted. At eagleman last year I was even hot on the swim. Had my slowest swim by 2+ minutes, biked 2:15 on 255w (ftp ~305-310 pt) which felt really hard, then only managed to run a 1:30 despite running a 1:14 open half 6 weeks before on a crazy hilly course.
For me I think it was a combo of the heat, not enough long tempo rides or hard 4-5 hour rides (only was doing like 2x20 stuff, or easier long rides - needed more in the middle of that), not eating nearly enough (only took in half the gels there as I ended up taking in later season races where I was running low 1:20's and riding 20 watts higher).
That said, it sounds like your bike split was pretty slow for the kind of watts you were riding. What's your set-up? How much of the race were you in aero? Aero helmet? Disc? Good tires?
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For me I think it was a combo of the heat, not enough long tempo rides or hard 4-5 hour rides (only was doing like 2x20 stuff, or easier long rides - needed more in the middle of that), not eating nearly enough (only took in half the gels there as I ended up taking in later season races where I was running low 1:20's and riding 20 watts higher).
That said, it sounds like your bike split was pretty slow for the kind of watts you were riding. What's your set-up? How much of the race were you in aero? Aero helmet? Disc? Good tires?
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Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
if you werent comfortable in aero in the latter half of the bike, the chances are you werent putting down the power you had hoped. I would say similar to the others, your body needs time to acclimatise, plus I think you should have stuck your tri bike on the trainer for some long rides to get used to that position
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
TRIHOPE wrote:
I realize its not accurate and can be way off so I decided to make the resistance harder to factor this in. I turned the resistance knob 5.5 turns and set my tires at 115psi. My power was 310 based on this.Turning the knob on the back of a Kinetic road machine does not increase the resistance. All that does is increase the contact pressure between the tire and the drum. The only way to increase/decrease the resistance of the unit is through gearing and cadence.
How different was your training for this HIM vs the one last August? Not doing any training on the TT bike likely had some effect. Is there a reason you didnt use that the trainer? Did you spend most the ride second half of the ride sitting up? If so then you likely lost minutes right there.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Heat and position on the bike (swims courses are notoriously off so hard to compare times from diff races)...look at it this way, you still ran faster despite the heat, something to be proud of. Now take your tri bike and slap it on the trainer and master the position.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Did you use an HRM during the race? How did you HR compare to what you're used to in training? A good sign of overheating is that your HR is about about 10 beats higher for the same pace / effort level. Sweating a lot? The bad thing about Florida heat is the high humidity levels that come with it. You sweat a lot but it never evaporates so you just get hotter and hotter. I find that I can perform decently up to 88-90F with low humidity but as soon as humidity goes above 80-85% I'm done.
I'm not sure how your road bike setup compares to your tri bike but you can adjust the fit so your hip angle on the road bike is similar to what you have on the TT bike. With that you're at least training the same muscle groups and minimize the difference in power you can produce on the road vs tri bike.
I'm not sure how your road bike setup compares to your tri bike but you can adjust the fit so your hip angle on the road bike is similar to what you have on the TT bike. With that you're at least training the same muscle groups and minimize the difference in power you can produce on the road vs tri bike.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [shredz2000]
[ In reply to ]
I spent most of the second half aero but I did get up more often. I just couldn't sustain the power like I could the 1st half being aero. I had the same setup as last HIM (tires, helmet, etc).
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [sp1ke]
[ In reply to ]
sp1ke wrote:
Did you use an HRM during the race? How did you HR compare to what you're used to in training? A good sign of overheating is that your HR is about about 10 beats higher for the same pace / effort level. Sweating a lot? The bad thing about Florida heat is the high humidity levels that come with it. You sweat a lot but it never evaporates so you just get hotter and hotter. I find that I can perform decently up to 88-90F with low humidity but as soon as humidity goes above 80-85% I'm done. I'm not sure how your road bike setup compares to your tri bike but you can adjust the fit so your hip angle on the road bike is similar to what you have on the TT bike. With that you're at least training the same muscle groups and minimize the difference in power you can produce on the road vs tri bike.
I did use a HRM but it decided not to work before the race started.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
I'm also a cold state guy that did the race:
General thought: The run was a terrible setup to keep a pace on the back "hill". I had to slow to a walk and almost stop as there were to many people and not enough room to run. Given your run was faster than mine, I'm sure if effected you more.
I know lots of people say to ride a road bike, but we race triathlon - ride your tri-bike. 2+ hours "aero" has to be a lot different than 2+ hours on a road bike. I only own a tri-bike and had no issues on the bike at all after riding all winter on it on the CT.
General thought: The run was a terrible setup to keep a pace on the back "hill". I had to slow to a walk and almost stop as there were to many people and not enough room to run. Given your run was faster than mine, I'm sure if effected you more.
I know lots of people say to ride a road bike, but we race triathlon - ride your tri-bike. 2+ hours "aero" has to be a lot different than 2+ hours on a road bike. I only own a tri-bike and had no issues on the bike at all after riding all winter on it on the CT.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [B.McMaster]
[ In reply to ]
I'm wondering if my fit on the tri bike is so bad that I losing tons of power?
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [B.McMaster]
[ In reply to ]
I'm a cold weather guy (Washington State) and the Florida 70.3 run cooked me. It didn't feel that hot, but I suffered! I should have run a 1:40 half...ended up at 1:55.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
I'll bet its more lack of use. That course was pancake flat so we "should" have been riding in a perfect aero position the entire way. That puts a lot of strain on different parts of the body than a hilly ride where you continue to change positions. I did a LOT of aerobar riding on the CT all winter. I remember the early ones were harder to hold the position for an extended period of time than the later ones.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Hard to say but just reading your post.
(1) You don't want to be in a position race day that you are uncomfortable with so get the trainer set up exactly like your race bike, or use your race bike on the trainer.
(2) Sounds like you felt the heat wore you down a bit, but my experience is that indoor trainer rides are typically hotter (unless you use a large fan directly on you)
(3) 6'2 180 pounds, is a tiny bit on the heavier end but not too bad, plus with the flatter course this shouldn't have been an issue.
(4) Unknowns how was your taper/fueling strategy?
(1) You don't want to be in a position race day that you are uncomfortable with so get the trainer set up exactly like your race bike, or use your race bike on the trainer.
(2) Sounds like you felt the heat wore you down a bit, but my experience is that indoor trainer rides are typically hotter (unless you use a large fan directly on you)
(3) 6'2 180 pounds, is a tiny bit on the heavier end but not too bad, plus with the flatter course this shouldn't have been an issue.
(4) Unknowns how was your taper/fueling strategy?
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
Since you had no power or HRM how did you feel power wise? I know you were uncomfortable from riding in the aero position but did the effort feel consistent with your training rides? 18.5 hours avg for 12 weeks is a good amount of volume…how was your taper heading into the race?
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
generally you will produce less power on a TT bike, but make that up in the aero dynamics.
at least this is what happens to me. i can produce 290 watts for one hour on my road bike, but only about 270 on my tt. @ 177 lb i am 6'1.
also one thing is my position i feel is pretty dialed in, however i ride the bike only 1 time before a race generally and the race itself, i feel like that is not enough to acclimate the body. unless you are running a very slack position which it doesn't sound like from your description you might run into a problem where the body will not perform quite as well.
it my first sprint this year i did ok, but after doing an olympic race the bike leg was much less impressive considering the bike i ride, the position and the power i generate on my road bike.
at least this is what happens to me. i can produce 290 watts for one hour on my road bike, but only about 270 on my tt. @ 177 lb i am 6'1.
also one thing is my position i feel is pretty dialed in, however i ride the bike only 1 time before a race generally and the race itself, i feel like that is not enough to acclimate the body. unless you are running a very slack position which it doesn't sound like from your description you might run into a problem where the body will not perform quite as well.
it my first sprint this year i did ok, but after doing an olympic race the bike leg was much less impressive considering the bike i ride, the position and the power i generate on my road bike.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
I did a 10 day taper leading in and I didn't have much problems nutrition wise.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
A 2:56 marathon says that a 1:29 was probably as fast as you were capable of anyway. Factor in the heat and a 1:39 isn't too far off if you struggled on the 2nd 1/2 of the bike.... you bike struggles were due to specificity, not training enough on you bike in the aero position.
Based on your times, you might have even "burnt a match" on the swim as well, since you went 1 minute faster than predicted.
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Based on your times, you might have even "burnt a match" on the swim as well, since you went 1 minute faster than predicted.
.
TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [TRIHOPE]
[ In reply to ]
TRIHOPE wrote:
I spent most of the second half aero but I did get up more often. I just couldn't sustain the power like I could the 1st half being aero. I had the same setup as last HIM (tires, helmet, etc).This is very difficult to gauge without a real power meter. You're trying to parse out details without data to back it up. What was your 45k split, and how did the conditions differ between the 2 halves?
I know guys without a powermeter want desperately to have this metric (I was that guy!) but there's so much difference between the TR curves and the road it is almost apples and oranges. Its fine to estimate power, but be careful making conclusions without empirical data. Better to use what your have available.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [kkoole]
[ In reply to ]
Tailwind for the most part on the way out, headwind for a long stretch on the way back. Also, the first half is the "pancake" flat that everyone seems to be referencing, the 2nd half has some undulation to it. It's too difficult to compare the front and back half of the bike without the power data. It might have seemed like the power wasn't there because the 2nd half was slower but the power could have actually been higher or the same.
Also, there is nothing flat about that run course. Basically three loops of uphill for 1.5 miles, then meandering downhill for 2.5 miles.
Additionally, the swim is shaped like an M and is a pretty slow set-up. A low-30s time is a pretty solid effort. It seems like very few people factor in the fatigue they are going to experience from the swim portion of the race.
Also, there is nothing flat about that run course. Basically three loops of uphill for 1.5 miles, then meandering downhill for 2.5 miles.
Additionally, the swim is shaped like an M and is a pretty slow set-up. A low-30s time is a pretty solid effort. It seems like very few people factor in the fatigue they are going to experience from the swim portion of the race.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [IronDadTony]
[ In reply to ]
Based on the last post, the times could be easily explained by pacing. Going out too hard at the start with a tailwind, wher eyou want ot back off a little, then going too hard the 2nd half where it was slower/harder. It's easy to push hills too hard on the run. Way too easy. I always reference my HRM when I get to a hill and have to back myself down. I got too used to "attacking" the hills from my high school cross country days.
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Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [shredz2000]
[ In reply to ]
I think that's just semantics, if you crank the knob on the back of the KK it increase the contact pressure, which in turn increases the resistance you feel when your pedaling.
If its 5.5 full 360 degree turns from initial contact on a 115 psi trainer tire, which should be a pretty solid resistance.
If its 5.5 full 360 degree turns from initial contact on a 115 psi trainer tire, which should be a pretty solid resistance.
Re: What happened to me at my 70.3? [Jmath]
[ In reply to ]
Yes the 2nd half was more difficult than than the 1st half on the bike. I was about 2mph slower on the 2nd half. Overall, I felt pretty flat for the race. I had a lot of life stresses leading up so maybe this played a factor too. I almost wasn't going to go because of them. I usually shrug these off but maybe they can affect performance.
Since everyone seems to be picking apart your race setup and execution, I'll point out the more obvious. Without seeing what you did for taper, based upon your training load and what you've said you were doing plus the fact that you are a bigger guy, my guess is that you went into the race overtrained and carried alot of residual/accumulated fatigue into the race which typically shows up on the bike then gets worse on the run. Agree with others, not riding your TT bike much before the race also contributed.