Dev I don't think you understand what a buoy is for...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Ask Brett Sutton as some members of his group use it a lot.

pullbuoys are a cruel joke. I can't stand that stupid piece of foam.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You can work on your pull by isolating it. And you catch. Good for those of us who have to think about kicking properly. When your legs are really tired from biking and running you can still workout your arms. Having said that I think it shouldn't be more than ten percent of your workout time.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Ooooh timely post as I'm about to start week 2 of guppy and it has me using a pull buoy. Thanks for asking!

LOL, I did not realize that Dan was approving pull buoy in the Guppy Challenge....I thought that entire thing was all band pull no floatiness.

That's fair and I see that. But what about getting to the point where you can almost not use your legs at all and rely on body position to drive your hips up and rely on a very light 2 beat kick that consumes very little oxygen....or adding zoomer fins with a light 2 beat? Do you think that the floaty shorts might be even better?

http://www.usms.org/...display.php?aid=3044

As far as what percent of your workout it should be used in, I don't really know, and different coaches do different things. Personally, as soon as someone can swim with an ankle strap without beating the water into submission, I have them switch to that and the pull buoy is never seen again. In that case somewhere between 10 and 15% of total distance.

On the other hand, I read an article last summer (and can't find it now) that suggested that older swimmers and beginners do their warm up with a buoy to relieve stress on the shoulders until they are loosened up. Kind of makes sense, but I've never seen that done.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

When I was learning to swim 'for real' as an AOS, the pull buoy was a valuable first step in showing me how unbalanced my pull was, especially after isolating the arms by banding the ankles.

For leg lifting though, I hate the thing and see it a lot more as a crutch. I swim +5 to +7 slower WITH the buoy than without it.

1 - It's awesome.
2 - Yes
3 - Sometimes
4 - Every workout
5 - not as much as i should anymore 10% should be 20%
6 - Dunno - never used a wetsuit
7 - See 6

In all seriousness - the pull buoy is great for isolating arms, and strengthening the pull. For low-in-the-water swimmers, it can also help to reinforce the feeling of riding higher, once body position and kick are re-tuned. These days, because I just swim for fitness, not to race or anything, I use my pull buoy and paddles almost every workout, because I love the feel. I could just cruise that way forever (add a snorkel if it was long course).

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I swim slower with the buoy than without as well. Not that much slower though. Half the swimmers in my lane love the pull sets because they are faster with the buoy.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

1 - you're wrong. it sux ballz
2 - getting to the next set.
3 - meh. no more so than actual swimming, I think.
4. i do it because coach makes me. unless i don't feel like it anymore
5. probably 15-20%
6 let you know after i get a wetsuit. I'd probably do it the same as an 800/1500 (2 or 4-beat hybrid kick)
7 last one I did I was 2nd out of the water, 1st onto the bike. wetsuit legal sprint distance local race. I didn't have one so I raced old school with my top rolled down into my shorts.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

What’s the point of this condescending post? To make yourself feel better by trying to make others feel bad? You know the purpose of a pull buoy. It’s used to isolate the pull phase. If used incorrectly, which is what you’re getting at, it is used as a crutch by swimmers with poor body position.

If someone chooses to overuse a pull buoy to compensate for flaws in their swim then it’s their problem and they’re just hurting themselves. There’s no need to act like you’re better than those people, many of which struggle with swimming and probably always will struggle.

what was condescending? He had some questions and interested in people's varying answers to those questions. I didn't see it as being condescending in the least.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

OK, sorry if you read into it as condescending and it could be read that way. I see a variety of opinions about this topic and have used the tool to different degrees and considering adding more back in now. The response from Tallswimmer is probably a good one. I know the purpose is to isolate the pull and I buy having more oxygen for that, but without the rest of the body doing the right thing, not sure how much is gained for most of us. For me I never found it transferred well to wetsuit, because the wetsuit still allows the body to do everything it does without a wetsuit just doing it higher up. The pull buoy for me (and many others) tends to change what the core is doing. Its just easier to swim flat with the pull buoy which goes to the question about how does it transfer back to no pull buoy swimming. Maybe I have to do something more to keep a better hip rotation with the buoy.

Edit: I have changed the title of the thread to "What the Benefit of the Pull Buoy". This will be a more collaborative entry point in starting the discussion. The only thread title set the wrong tone.

Can I ask you what we should to to focus on in terms of proper hip rotation with the buoy and keep timing good? I agree that more swimming and harder swimming of all kind regardless of tools will add up.

1. What are the benefits you see using a pull buoy?

Isolates “front end” so you can focus on underwater pull.

1. What do you work on when you use it?

Underwater pull

1. Does that work transfer to swimming without it?

Yes

1. How often do you use it (what percent of workouts)?

Usually 300 yards during warmup then another 400-500 yards during a 2,000 yard main set. Usually equates to 20-25% of a total workout

1. What percent of your workouts are kick oriented?

7-10%

1. Do you "not kick" in wetsuit races?

No, 2 beat kick typically

1. How do you find no wetsuit open water races?

A little slower than with wetsuit as I’m still working on body position.

Another thing I'll add is that when I do a set of 100's, like 16 or 20, I'll use the pull buoy every 4th or 5th 100. This allows me to get a feel for better form while "refocusing" on the underwater pull/body position. I don't go easy on this 100 either. The 100 right after that is usually pretty good then a few more 100's my form starts to lose it a bit but then I grab the buoy again etc. I've mentioned this to a few coach's and I didn't hear many objections and one coach even thought he might try it.

1 getting decent volume even on tired/lazy days
2 mainly endurance
3 yes
4 20%
5 3%
6 no
7 fun

Those would be good ideas. For now I am stuck with relying somewhat on my kick.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

1. What are the benefits you see using a pull buoy?

Teaching me the correct body position in the water so I can "feel" when I'm not in the right position

1. What do you work on when you use it?

Keeping core tight from the sternum down through the thighs. I'm a big guy so I still need to focus to keep my hips and feet in the right spot. When my hips sag with a buoy in it feels like I'm dragging a sack behind me.

It also helps me actualize my body as a straight line that's rotating about a point instead of squiggling like a worm.

1. Does that work transfer to swimming without it?

Don't understand

1. How often do you use it (what percent of workouts)?

It's not even 10% of my yardage. I use it during warm-ups to mentally focus on getting my body in the right position.

1. What percent of your workouts are kick oriented?

2-5%

1. Do you "not kick" in wetsuit races?

I kick very little. Two-beat easy kick until near the finish when I try to kick the legs out a little bit.

1. How do you find no wetsuit open water races?

I really enjoy open water and tend to perform better in open water than I do in the pool. Maybe it's the salt water buoyancy or something. I like the current, the ebb and flow, figuring out how the water is moving and figuring out the right way to participate with the water in order to get me through as easily as possible.

Are those swimmers still kicking while using the buoy? I don't see how someone could be faster with the pull buoy if they use it properly.

With that said...I am an adult onset (read: completely ignorant) swimmer.

I use it often with a center mount snorkel to isolate and work on my pull. The snorkel allows me to see the entire pull phase while working certain aspects. I have found Zoomers or fins slow my stroke down as the surface area is larger, keeping me from kicking as I usually do. I actually use this buoy ( https://eneybuoy.com ) as it mentions these benefits, which I agree...


"The Eney Buoy is cleaner more durable with adjustable buoyancy. When the buoy is full it adds 7 pounds of resistance. When it is half empty and the bottom capsule is full, it stretches the psoas muscle. A muscle that is overused by triathletes, runners and cyclists. When the buoy is empty, you’ll be fast and much higher in the water and your tempo will be increased all which are good for open water swimming.".


I found it easier to use than a parachute in a short course pool.