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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Nick B wrote:
How are the LBS in your area?

Good if I'm speaking to the owner. Terrible if I'm speaking to their weekend staff
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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okay, so, does anyone else want to play? those questions i asked the OP, if any of you want to know what road bike(s) are perfect for you, you just need to answer these questions:

go out to your existing road race bike and measure:

saddle height: BB to saddle top, midway between tip and tail
saddle setback: vertical distance from the saddle nose to the BB.
saddle type: standard saddle or split rail?
nose to hood trough: nose of the saddle, just a straight shot to the low point of the hood, right before the upturn in the hood. make sure the front wheel's straight.
saddle top to handlebar top, just the elevation, the vertical drop, to the top of the 31.8mm section, right next to the handlebar clamp.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Mar 27, 15 13:11
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Went to a shop in Scottsdale last week and the road bike "guru" didn't know the different between the BMC TMR01 and 02, of which they had the TMR02 on the floor.
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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I have two bike shops in my immediate area. They're average at best.

One carries Specialized and Trek, but refuses to order any high level bike for fear of losing money. They hesitate with Ultegra level, and typically order 105 level at best. Oddly enough, they carry the Specialized mountain range too and have no problems getting a top notch stumpy or enduro.

The other one carries Raleigh and Giant. I'm partial to them as this is where my father got me my first road bike when I was 10. They also hesitate with ordering high level bikes.

Anytime I need anything other than tubes, tires, etc, I go to one of three other shops, each 45min-1hr away. Worth the drive, both are awesome and know what they're talking about.

Like someone mentioned above, it's hard to find shops catered to a serious roadie or triathlete. They're typically geared (puns) toward the casual rider looking for exercise or a bike for the kid. Not a bad thing! Just means sometimes you have to shove your allegiances aside in order to get what you really need/want.

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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That is too funny

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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saddle height: 609mm
saddle setback: +19mm
saddle type: Standard (fizik arione road)
nose to hood trough: 590.5mm
saddle top to handlebar top, 76mm

Please find me a bike small enough

Overall height 1619mm
Wingspan 1664mm

jaretj
Last edited by: jaretj: Mar 27, 15 17:22
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
okay, so, does anyone else want to play? those questions i asked the OP, if any of you want to know what road bike(s) are perfect for you, you just need to answer these questions:

go out to your existing road race bike and measure:

saddle height: BB to saddle top, midway between tip and tail
saddle setback: vertical distance from the saddle nose to the BB.
saddle type: standard saddle or split rail?
nose to hood trough: nose of the saddle, just a straight shot to the low point of the hood, right before the upturn in the hood. make sure the front wheel's straight.
saddle top to handlebar top, just the elevation, the vertical drop, to the top of the 31.8mm section, right next to the handlebar clamp.


I'll play as I'm currently looking for a new road bike anyway, now maybe I can find something used instead of new.

saddle height: 27" (almost perfectly inline with the seat tube)
saddle setback: -1 1\2" (horizontal distance from BB centerline))

saddle type: Adamo Century
nose to hood trough: 25"

saddle top to handlebar top, 1 7\8"

Height = 5'-8"
wingspan = 5'-11 1\4"

I've never had a fit done and this is my first road bike.
Last edited by: Burnt Toast: Mar 27, 15 18:29
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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so, you're 5' 3 1/2", is that right? and you kind of have gorilla arms? did you wrestle? i bet the wrestling coach wanted you, with your weight class and that wingspan.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Nick B, we know what you mean. On the other hand, I am not worthy of my LBS.

http://wrenchedbicycles.com/about/staff/

It is a mile from my house and they have always treated me well. If they told me to stand on my head in the corner and wait for my bike, I would. I am not worthy.

If anyone is in the Gainesville, GA area, I highly recommend this shop.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
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saddle set back is plumb line. it's going to be 60mm. or 70mm. something like that. assuming we measure in metric, which most of us do in cycling ;-)

just to be sure, that's not a ton of handlebar drop. you're happy with that? i'm going to just find you your bike, to fit your position. just making sure you're happy with that position.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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That's all accurate, they wanted me but my mother wouldn't let me wrestle with my gorilla arms

All my bike measurements are in my profile too (except my Felt F5)
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I really like that Cannondale R800 I have, I really feel that fit is perfect.

jaretj
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
saddle set back is plumb line. it's going to be 60mm. or 70mm. something like that. assuming we measure in metric, which most of us do in cycling ;-)

just to be sure, that's not a ton of handlebar drop. you're happy with that? i'm going to just find you your bike, to fit your position. just making sure you're happy with that position.


I know, but I don't have a metric tape and I'm a civil engineer so I normally deal in tenths and hundredth of a foot. ten years ago or so we went metric, but the old guard could not figure it out so we went back to feets and metric became a dirty word. I could convert but its the same as you doing it and doesn't make it any more precise :)

I feel my current bike is too big and I was stretched out pretty far so not happy with my fit. The actual distance nose to hood is 26-3\4" but I measured from where I typically hold on the curve of the top bar so the drop could be a little more without a problem. My seat is also slide forward on the rails as far as possible and I have a setback seatpost. FYI its a 2005 Felt F15 54cm
Last edited by: Burnt Toast: Mar 27, 15 18:01
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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your gorilla arms are precisely why the coach wanted you to wrestle.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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A story from several years back to humorously illustrate that not all LBSeseses are created equal. I took a lovely but old steel Spectrum frame in to see if a shop with a very well-equipped mechanic's station would cold set/spread the rear to 130mm. The shop's tool wall had a frame alignment gauge hanging neatly in its place. Three different mechanics converged and told me with all sincerity that you cannot cold set steel...only aluminum or carbon.

I thanked them for their time and left.

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Scott
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of time its just insecurity. Go into a place where the employees are all ripped to shreds and young and you are fat or weak and if they make any kind of funny look you assume they are JUDGING YOU!!

They might be but prolly they are just hungry


mrtopher1980 wrote:
jackmott wrote:
Economist wrote:
Majority of bike shops cater to the recreational crowd. It's tough to find a shop that has a racer or more advanced rider.


nah it is easy.
look at the yelp reviews
go to the shops with the worst yelp reviews

I laughed because it is true.

I was working at shops pre yelp but the one I did work at we had 2 locations. One was in an affluent town on a main highway in front of a mall, we moved 200-300 buck mountain bikes all day long and put skinny slick tires on them because people wanted the look but never go off road. Our other store had half the staff because they didn't move the volume but catered to more high end custom builds. We'd get people in all the time that didn't realize we were the same shop complaining that the smaller store was rude to them stuff like that. Wasn't right necessarily but they just weren't used to dealing with give me the cheapest you have crowd.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
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first, let's make your fit coordinates all in millimeters:

saddle height: 686
saddle setback: -38mm
saddle type: Adamo Century
nose to hood trough: 635
saddle top to handlebar top: 48mm

i'm going to make some general comments. in my opinion, you have very suspect fit coordinates. i'm not saying you measured them wrong, i'm saying that they don't comport with how i would assume you would ride, being the dimensions you are. for example, if a saddle height of 686mm is a good saddle height for you, then for your height, and your saddle height, and your very long arms, i would assume the distance from the saddle nose to the hood trough to be more like 70cm or 71cm at least, as opposed to the 63.5 cm that you report, unless you sit waaaaay back in the saddle, which might be a proper assumption with your puny 38mm of saddle nose setback, but you're riding a saddle that doesn't typically lend itself well to that kind of sitting posture on the saddle.

still, let's stipulate to your fit coordinates.

when i look at the pic of your felt on your user profile, it looks like about a 90mm stem, in the +6° pitch, and about 40mm between the head tube top and the bottom of the stem (spacers, headset top cap, etc.) when i calc that out, using that front end that the pic appears to suggest, i get exactly the geometry of a 54cm Felt F series (bearing in mind that i don't know if the F geometry was exactly in 2005 what it is today, but let's assume it is).

if this is all correct, then you have a handlebar clamp that sits 620mm above the bottom bracket in the Y axis, and 454in the X axis, and that 454mm is exactly what i calc'd out when i took your fit coordinates and plopped them into my calculators. the 620mm is a little taller than a calc'd, but, in the ballpark.

in any case, here's what i would say. based on the fit coordinates you gave me, the exact wrong bike for you is the Felt F series. that's the longest, lowest geometry available in the world of road bikes and you are, based on your fit - based on how that bike is set up - what some folks call "gran fondo" geometry. you need a bike precisely on the opposite end of that spectrum, geometrically. something with a front end taller, and not as far out in front of you.

if we take that handlebar Y and X and we plop in a saner, more elegant front end, say, 90mm stem, in the -6° pitch instead of +6°, and only 20mm of total spacers + dust cover, etc., rather than 40mm, we need a bike that fits up under that front end that's got a stack and reach of 565mm and 377mm (instead of the 527mm and 389mm on the Felt F in 54cm).

here's a specialized roubaix in size 54cm: stack = 563mm, reach = 380mm. very very close.

this assumes a bar with the same bar reach you've got on your bike now. maybe that's 80mm. maybe 90mm. i'm guessing 80mm. if you move to a bar with a 70mm reach (very popular nowadays) then you compensate with a 100mm stem in pace of the 90mm stem.

do you like the litespeed C1R? that bike in ML has a stack and reach of 567mm/387mm. oops. it's exactly the right height, but 10mm too long. so, how about the handlebar with the 70mm reach but we stay with the 90mm stem. then it all works.

giant defy, size M: 566/376
felt Z series, size 54: 564/383 (a tad long, but very close, much better than the F series)
cervelo R series, size 54: 555/378 (so we slap one more 10mm spacer under the stem)
cannondale synapse, size 54: 566/374

all these bikes work great for you. but, that's IF the fit you currently have is the fit that works for you. if your fit is off, then the bikes i've given you will work great for your crappy position.

that's bike fitting today. the first part of the process is generating a good set of fit coordinates, and i'm not sure yours are optimized. we haven't tackled that today. part 2, which we tackled right here in this post, is just a big math problem. very solvable math problem. as i just solved for you. this is the reasonable expectation of a fit session. if this isn't what you're getting, you're not getting what's available. this is what we teach in F.I.S.T. workshops. it's also what they teach at retul and GURU. not that all the fitters are able to absorb this and reproduce it, but, this is the process. no alchemy here. no black art. just math.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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my cats name is mittens
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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ralph wiggums, if you read this, then this, i walk you thru it. it's not that hard. it's just a different language, hard on the ears until you start to become familiar with it.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I can usually fit to 2 frame sizes even 3 I suppose in a model range.


The LBS might be right, in steering a customer to say a larger size frame. The seatpost will be shorter, more generous head tube, and more adjustment range fore and aft on the horizontal. Also with a longer wheelbase, the frame will be slightly more of a "GT" ride vs the smaller frame.

A smaller frame is, to me, a purpose or specialized situation fit. Smaller frames seem to flex, weigh less, more aggressive/lower bars, and tighter range reach wise before things get crazy. Things are more cramped, even with a longer stem, due to position on the bike and weight distribution.

Depends on intended use, how long to own the bike. If you are looking for years of use, then the "proper" size might be the best option due to range of adjustment.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I will jump in if you don't mind:

in mm.:
saddle height: 790
saddle setback: 56
saddle type: standard saddle
nose to hood trough: 695
saddle top to handlebar top: 50

i am 186cm tall and my wingspan is 197 cm. I currently ride a Felt F size 56, with a 90mm stem turned upwards. comfy, but I can feel my knees open when I grab the drops, and I can't hold it there for a long time.
This is my first bike, I bought it to give tri a try, and I am happily hooked, looking forward to my second season, and looking for both an upgrade in my road bike and a first TT bike. In this line, I have a question, is this information valuable to narrow my choices when looking at a TT bike, or do I need to start from scratch and get a fit?

Thanks Slowman!

Sr. Salitre
Last edited by: FranR: Mar 28, 15 1:04
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [FranR] [ In reply to ]
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That's not much setback for your saddle height. I'm guessing your bars are high because you get a sore back and/or tingly hands?

In any case, some options

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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Right, a slipped disc in my lower back, fortunately with a strong core I can run and ride without pain.

Thanks!

Sr. Salitre
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'd love to play. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

saddle height: 620 mm
saddle setback: 10 mm
saddle type: Standard - Specialized Romin
nose to hood trough: 605 mm
saddle top to handlebar top: 25 mm

Height: 165 cm
Wingspan: 172 cm

This fit is probably not ideal, but generally comfortable in the hoods, hooks, and drops. I'd prefer to rotate my pelvis forward a bit more, but doing so generally causes saddle discomfort.

With my PD T1+ clip-ons, I tend to fidget and scoot forward on the saddle. I cannot tolerate more than a minute or two perched on the nose of the saddle in this position. Ideally, the saddle would come up and forward when using aerobars to effectively rotate my position around the BB.

(Edit: measurement corrections)
Last edited by: superbike: Mar 28, 15 10:05
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Re: Went to 4 Bike Shops today... [FranR] [ In reply to ]
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one more, if you don't mind: nose to handlebar clamp.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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